Gay marriage OK because homosexuals born that way and deserve to have romantic relationships too?

[garycasella]

They’re both perversions - not the way nature intended.

Ladybri, there just seems to me, after reading soooooooo many of your comments, that looking for understanding or even the openness to understanding in your case, is reminiscent to looking for a pearl in an oyster, it happens only rarely. Your comments are offensive to all, because you diminish all by your assumptions, your definitions, your reasoning that only what you say or believe, is corrrect. Is pedophilia something for us, on the whole, incomprehensible, yes it is. However, several hundred years ago, it was very much the norm for adults to marry children and consumate immediately. Was it ok then because it was an accepted norm or was it still a ‘perversion’ then, too? Lucrezia Borgia, daughter of Pope Alessandro, during the Renaissance, was married off by her pop at 12 and again, he was the Pope. One would think that this would be an odd thing on many levels. But it was not. Many say and have always sttaed that celibacy is wrong, yet is is practiced. Those who are celibate are not propogating therefore are they not sinning. Jesus does not mention celibacy. Even Leviticus does not mention it. it is just another thing whipped up at some council many centuries after Christ, maybe the one at Trent. Priests were initially allowed to marry, etc as it was not normal not to. This leads me to another point long ago, when homosexuals were not berated or called perversions, during the Greek and Roman eras, which take up about 1,000 years on history. But now, to you it is a perversion. Simply because t is not natural to you, it is a perversion. 2 consenting adults doing what is natural to them is not a perversion. Pedophilia is a mental disorder, homosexuality is not. You can find pedophila in the DSM, but you will not find homosexuality there. If you can not see the difference between 2 adults loving together, consentually and a man luring an adolescent into a sexual labyrinth, then you need some readjustment. Per Jesus, you should be doing everything you can to accept and love and understand, not doing everything in your power to do the opposite. I so seldom attack people, really, but you just need a big bolt of lightening or something to give you the sense that God gave to a goat. Look for what ties us, not what tears us apart. Would you throw that first stone, if given the chance, because your writings cleaarly make one think you would and the words…I Think Thee Protesteth Too Much…comes to mind when I read what you have to say. Again…feel the love, see the love, know the love! May God bless you. Amen (Let it be so)

 

[court14]

Bennie_P:
Cite these studies please.

 

[garycasella]

Poor Bennie. Look man, the opinion of one judge means he’s activist? What does that even mean??

And what in the world does a study that documents child abuse by CATHOLIC PRIESTS have to say about there being a disproportionate amount of child sex abuse among homosexuals? You’re killing me, Bennie.

lol and to ice that wonderful cake, you discount the entire American Psychological Association because they disagree with you? The declassified homosexual behavior BECAUSE IT’S NOT A PATHOLOGY. Yay Bennie!

I find Walrus to be one hip, happening, thoughtful being. No matter of gender, race, religion, preference…the Walrus is kind, understanding, open minded, eager to learn, to not judge, to see all sides and, in my book, is the top, the Colloseum, the top, the Louvre museum, a melody, a symphony by Strauss! Keep trucking Walrus!

 

[michaelcollins]

You make a great point. How could they be so narrow-minded to not base all their decisions around you?

Finnally, someone who understands reason and agrees, can you talk to my wife?

 

[thewalrus]

Ladybri, there just seems to me, after reading soooooooo many of your comments, that looking for understanding or even the openness to understanding in your case, is reminiscent to looking for a pearl in an oyster, it happens only rarely. Your comments are offensive to all, because you diminish all by your assumptions, your definitions, your reasoning that only what you say or believe, is corrrect. Is pedophilia something for us, on the whole, incomprehensible, yes it is. However, several hundred years ago, it was very much the norm for adults to marry children and consumate immediately. Was it ok then because it was an accepted norm or was it still a ‘perversion’ then, too? Lucrezia Borgia, daughter of Pope Alessandro, during the Renaissance, was married off by her pop at 12 and again, he was the Pope. One would think that this would be an odd thing on many levels. But it was not. Many say and have always sttaed that celibacy is wrong, yet is is practiced. Those who are celibate are not propogating therefore are they not sinning. Jesus does not mention celibacy. Even Leviticus does not mention it. it is just another thing whipped up at some council many centuries after Christ, maybe the one at Trent. Priests were initially allowed to marry, etc as it was not normal not to. This leads me to another point long ago, when homosexuals were not berated or called perversions, during the Greek and Roman eras, which take up about 1,000 years on history. But now, to you it is a perversion. Simply because t is not natural to you, it is a perversion. 2 consenting adults doing what is natural to them is not a perversion. Pedophilia is a mental disorder, homosexuality is not. You can find pedophila in the DSM, but you will not find homosexuality there. If you can not see the difference between 2 adults loving together, consentually and a man luring an adolescent into a sexual labyrinth, then you need some readjustment. Per Jesus, you should be doing everything you can to accept and love and understand, not doing everything in your power to do the opposite. I so seldom attack people, really, but you just need a big bolt of lightening or something to give you the sense that God gave to a goat. Look for what ties us, not what tears us apart. Would you throw that first stone, if given the chance, because your writings cleaarly make one think you would and the words…I Think Thee Protesteth Too Much…comes to mind when I read what you have to say. Again…feel the love, see the love, know the love! May God bless you. Amen (Let it be so)

Thank you, gary, thank you. I completely agree.

 

[thewalrus]

I find Walrus to be one hip, happening, thoughtful being. No matter of gender, race, religion, preference…the Walrus is kind, understanding, open minded, eager to learn, to not judge, to see all sides and, in my book, is the top, the Colloseum, the top, the Louvre museum, a melody, a symphony by Strauss! Keep trucking Walrus!

lol thanks gary!

 

[thewalrus]

Finnally, someone who understands reason and agrees, can you talk to my wife?

Does this mean I can remove my tongue from my cheek now?

 

[court14]

Other studies have shown that homosexual teachers are from 90 to 100 times more likely to molest students than heterosexual teachers.25

Can you cite this information?

 

[pureDzire]

Please go easy on Ladybri…there must be reasons why she must speak out as she does. We may dis-agree, but she must at least share what is in her own heart and journey with us. One never knows what might be said that will affect another’s journey for the better, even in comments that differ from our own views.

A Perspective does not just happen…our life often colors us in different colors and we learn what we must for our journeys to continue on. If what she has learned clashes with what we learn, may Our Lord work through us all anyway. Thank you.

 

[michaelcollins]

Does this mean I can remove my tongue from my cheek now?

Only if I can remove mine.

if we remove the debate to its lowest common denominator it involves a debaste over whether you believe as I used to that you had an obligation to live and let live, if 2 people were not hurting anyone else then they should be left aloneby goverment by the churches by you and me,

or you believe that morality, as I now as a catholic convert believe is not in a vacuum and we must oppose moral wrongs, we have not only a right but obligation.

So while I persaonally wish I could just sweep the debate under the rug, I must oppose same sex marriages.

The question is do I have the right to impose what I believe is moral on you? legally maybe not morally I have an obligation, clearly I have a conscionce(i.e. wife).

 

[buffalo]

lol nope, no, I have no problem at all with the facts, at least in regards to my argument. I find it a disturbing study, and very sad. A person does not have to be homosexual to commit sexual abuse with boys. That might be news to you.

Ahh, but see to fill in the blanks here is some additional info.

**Goodbye, Good Men - How Liberals Brought Corruption Into The Catholic Church

…**
Goodbye, Good Men: How Liberals Brought Corruption into the Catholic Church exposes the deliberate infiltration by those who wish to change the doctrines, disciplines and mission of the Catholic Church. This radical subculture and its liberal mindset-one that accepts homosexuality and sexual promiscuity in many seminaries-threatens the future of the Catholic Church.
The gay subculture is so prominent at certain seminaries that they have earned nicknames such as: “Pink Palace” (St. Mary’s Seminary in Baltimore), “Notre Flame” (Notre Dame Seminary in New Orleans), and “Theological Closet” (Theological College at the Catholic University of America in Washington, DC). At these and several other seminaries, Rose found shocking examples of how, time and time again, chaste heterosexual seminarians are dismissed as unfit for the priesthood,** while promiscuous homosexuals, and even those who have harassed, molested, or even raped other seminarians, are protected or promoted. **
**For anyone who has asked how pedophiles or predatory homosexual priests could possibly have been tolerated-here is the answer, in the most explosive book on the Catholic Church in a generation. **

 

[thewalrus]

Please go easy on Ladybri…there must be reasons why she must speak out as she does. We may dis-agree, but she must at least share what is in her own heart and journey with us. One never knows what might be said that will affect another’s journey for the better, even in comments that differ from our own views.

A Perspective does not just happen…our life often colors us in different colors and we learn what we must for our journeys to continue on. If what she has learned clashes with what we learn, may Our Lord work through us all anyway. Thank you.

I’m perfectly fine with hearing her views, but that doesn’t mean I should “go easy” on someone if their views differ from mine. She is saying things that deeply offend me. I’m not going to go easy on someone who implies that people I love should be in the same moral category as pedophiles. I’m cool with the journey thing you say but there are people out there reading her comments on journeys as well.

 

[court14]

I find Walrus to be one hip, happening, thoughtful being. No matter of gender, race, religion, preference…the Walrus is kind, understanding, open minded, eager to learn, to not judge, to see all sides and, in my book, is the top, the Colloseum, the top, the Louvre museum, a melody, a symphony by Strauss! Keep trucking Walrus!

Ditto.

I was a the moment actually studying/listening to a piece of music by Strauss R not J for performance. I like the comparison.

 

[thewalrus]

Only if I can remove mine.

if we remove the debate to its lowest common denominator it involves a debaste over whether you believe as I used to that you had an obligation to live and let live, if 2 people were not hurting anyone else then they should be left aloneby goverment by the churches by you and me,

or you believe that morality, as I now as a catholic convert believe is not in a vacuum and we must oppose moral wrongs, we have not only a right but obligation.

So while I persaonally wish I could just sweep the debate under the rug, I must oppose same sex marriages.

The question is do I have the right to impose what I believe is moral on you? legally maybe not morally I have an obligation, clearly I have a conscionce(i.e. wife).

No one is imposing anything on you. You oppose marriage for same-sex couples - that’s imposing on others. You can disagree with it all you want but at least allow them their rights. They’re just asking for the same civil rights as you get. I’m pretty confident they really don’t care what you think morally about them.

 

[thewalrus]

Ahh, but see to fill in the blanks here is some additional info.

Goodbye, Good Men - How Liberals Brought Corruption Into The Catholic Church

…
Goodbye, Good Men: How Liberals Brought Corruption into the Catholic Church exposes the deliberate infiltration by those who wish to change the doctrines, disciplines and mission of the Catholic Church. This radical subculture and its liberal mindset-one that accepts homosexuality and sexual promiscuity in many seminaries-threatens the future of the Catholic Church.
The gay subculture is so prominent at certain seminaries that they have earned nicknames such as: “Pink Palace” (St. Mary’s Seminary in Baltimore), “Notre Flame” (Notre Dame Seminary in New Orleans), and “Theological Closet” (Theological College at the Catholic University of America in Washington, DC). At these and several other seminaries, Rose found shocking examples of how, time and time again, chaste heterosexual seminarians are dismissed as unfit for the priesthood,** while promiscuous homosexuals, and even those who have harassed, molested, or even raped other seminarians, are protected or promoted. **
**For anyone who has asked how pedophiles or predatory homosexual priests could possibly have been tolerated-here is the answer, in the most explosive book on the Catholic Church in a generation. **

Ok buffalo, that book discusses the liberal Catholic movement in seminaries and their tendency to be selective towards priests (which the author argues has caused there to be a disproportionate amount of sexually dysfunctional priests out there). Remind me of how that proves that homosexuals have a greater tendency to be sexual predators? I’m even skeptical of the blurb of the book which says “predatory homosexual priests.” They may be predatory but not necessarily homosexual.

 

[buffalo]

Ok buffalo, that book discusses the liberal Catholic movement in seminaries and their tendency to be selective towards priests (which the author argues has caused there to be a disproportionate amount of sexually dysfunctional priests out there). Remind me of how that proves that homosexuals have a greater tendency to be sexual predators? I’m even skeptical of the blurb of the book which says “predatory homosexual priests.” They may be predatory but not necessarily homosexual.

Again, what do we call a male to male relationship?

 

[Bennie_P]

Poor Bennie. Look man, the opinion of one judge means he’s activist? What does that even mean??

And what in the world does a study that documents child abuse by CATHOLIC PRIESTS have to say about there being a disproportionate amount of child sex abuse among homosexuals? You’re killing me, Bennie.

lol and to ice that wonderful cake, you discount the entire American Psychological Association because they disagree with you? The declassified homosexual behavior BECAUSE IT’S NOT A PATHOLOGY. Yay Bennie!

The study you just po po, shows how the disodered behavoir, homosexuality was and is the root of the problem of of underage children being preyed upon those that ignore the releality of the disorder. It also shows in microcosm what danger active homosexuality has for the the children in society as a whole.

If I’m killing you it is becuase you are being shown light upon a dark part of your thought process.

As to the APA it is not only considered discredited by only little oh me, for their ideas of presenting active homosexuality as normal and not disordered behavior. Those that struggle with SSA could have better ammunitionwinnig seeking out treatments of the many mental/emotional disoders which are known in much higher numbers among them that reflect positive reenforcement in thier fight against problems related to thier struggle, instead of having them blame the attitudes of the rest of society. In other words let them take control of thier lives instead of living as victims by being told thier problems are caused by everyone else but has nothing to do with thier behavoir. What the APA has done is go from one negative way concerning how they treated persons with SSA to another that is just as, if not even more so, destructive to thier mental , physical and spiritual well-being.

We have a world that refuses to acknowldge that immoral behavior has consequences. This is not only about same-sex action, but sex and other behavoir outside of what natural law (God’s purpose) intended, the consequences can and do kill…physically, mentally and spiritually. We are not animals but rational, thinking beings that have a higher purpose then just self-seeking sexual pleasure. Society mores, norms and tabos are rooted not in ignorance and superstition but experience and true knowledge. Refusal to accept those mores, norms and tabos have deadly and grave consequences to all members of society.

 

[thewalrus]

Again, what do we call a male to male relationship?

Um dude, you might want to reconsider your definition of “relationship.” Predation is not in my definition. If you are asking what a male to male act is called, yes, it’s called a homosexual ACT. That does not make a person homosexual. There’s plenty of literature out there if you want to apprise yourself of such things.

 

[michaelcollins]

No one is imposing anything on you. You oppose marriage for same-sex couples - that’s imposing on others. You can disagree with it all you want but at least allow them their rights. They’re just asking for the same civil rights as you get. I’m pretty confident they really don’t care what you think morally about them.

Oh how wrong and uninformed you really are.

You actually believe they dont care what I think of them?

I know better, I get calls every night, Michael, what do you think about me, why dont you love me, why wont you support me, …

it goes on and on, never stops, sometimes I think they have no life if not for me and worrying about what I think.

why would I allow them rights I believe are wrongs? You miss my point, i used to believe as you do, but now believe I have a moral obligation to oppose moral wrongs, I am not supposed to just let them do it it is between two consenting adults-my church teaches me it is a moral wrong, I can either say church you are wrong, you dont know what you are talking about or follow the teachings of the church, I choose to follow the teachings of the church.

 

[buffalo]

Um dude, you might want to reconsider your definition of “relationship.” Predation is not in my definition. If you are asking what a male to male act is called, yes, it’s called a homosexual ACT. That does not make a person homosexual. There’s plenty of literature out there if you want to apprise yourself of such things.

Let’s see. An adult male looks for another male to have sex with (predatory or not) does not make him homosexual?

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adj. Of, relating to, or having a sexual orientation to persons of the same sex.
n. Usage Problem
A homosexual person; a gay man or a lesbian.