haha you sly dog. But no, I’m not on board with your anti-gay crowd…and I’m more into Borders and alternative rock but I’ll take your recs just for the well-rounding. I understand you have chosen the church as your authority and that that means you can skimp on social justice issues here and there despite your overall record. But justice is justice. It does not change. Allowing humans to be equal and have equal rights is justice.ok. I’ll respond, liberals classiofy their legislation as social justice.
conservatives calssify their responses as morality.
there are some common ground in the church- the church actually goes along and is very liberal on MOST social justice issues, that is why catholics voted for obama, that and their ecomnomic self interest, they believed he would fix the economy.
But, catholics have a higher moral authority than social justice or maorality on issues that it has spoken- the church, and it has spoken on homosexuallity and abortion, therefore I cannot support these issues.
Where does social justice come from? the norms of the day, it changes over time, if we lived very long ago slavery is a norm and woman were property.
the dogma of the church remains the same, its moral teachings, that is what we are to foillow.
I new I’d get you with that catholic forum thing, tell me was it the wrong turn at barnes & noble or at the hip hopster website that got you here? I thought you’d get on board with the anti gay crowd as soon as you learned where you were, when in Rome and the like…
I challenge your statement that we are all created heterosexual. If that were so we would from an early age have heterosexual tendencies and there would be no such thing as animals including humans who are homosexuals but that is not the case. Why would anyone ‘choose’ to be what society has in the past sanctioned with death and in the most recent past has sanctioned with incarceration and/or torture? Also I believe in another post you intimated that I do not have a close relationship with Christ and that is a false and patronising assumption otherwise I would not be engaged in this conversation.God made us all to be heterosexual, it’s because of the flesh, the world and Satan that we’re not. Being heterosexual is just a part of me, it’s not a weakness. My homosexual tendencies are a weakness for me, but through which God can use to bring Him glory and me healing. It’s a symptom of a greater dis-ease in me. It is an example of a thorn in the flesh, something to keep me humble and dependent on Him. He can use my weakness for His purpose, maybe to bring someone else to Him but especially to keep me depending on His strength.
Not about to torture them into changing- dont think I could get away with it, have you seen some of those gay women in san fran, theyd beat me up.haha you sly dog. But no, I’m not on board with your anti-gay crowd…and I’m more into Borders and alternative rock but I’ll take your recs just for the well-rounding. I understand you have chosen the church as your authority and that that means you can skimp on social justice issues here and there despite your overall record. But justice is justice. It does not change. Allowing humans to be equal and have equal rights is justice.
Never liked the animals are homosexual argument much- many animals eat their young and some their mates, would not want to start that as a trend in humans because animals do it it’s natural.I challenge your statement that we are all created heterosexual. If that were so we would from an early age have heterosexual tendencies and there would be no such thing as animals including humans who are homosexuals but that is not the case. Why would anyone ‘choose’ to be what society has in the past sanctioned with death and in the most recent past has sanctioned with incarceration and/or torture? Also I believe in another post you intimated that I do not have a close relationship with Christ and that is a false and patronising assumption otherwise I would not be engaged in this conversation.
Ugh, we’re not in Rome, silly!Not about to torture them into changing- dont think I could get away with it, have you seen some of those gay women in san fran, theyd beat me up.
not trying to deny them rights fundamental to humans, jobs housing, etc. But on issues of morality, until the church changes its teachings, it does that every 500-600 years you know?
Thought you’d want to buy my in rome(thought that was especially clever for a Roman catholic forum?) do as the romans point, shame.
What! Don’t tell mne we changed our position on the Jews? When did this happen?Ugh, we’re not in Rome, silly!
Marriage is a civil institution. If heterosexuals have a right to do it, so should homosexuals, period.
Sometimes it takes much longer than 500-600 years for the Church to figure things out but eventually I hope it’ll come around. It’s made a lot of progress with the anti-semitism bit. It’d be nice to add this to the list.
Marriage only became a civil institution when the goverment needed to make a buck, befoer eit was a religous institution.Ugh, we’re not in Rome, silly!
Marriage is a civil institution. If heterosexuals have a right to do it, so should homosexuals, period.
Sometimes it takes much longer than 500-600 years for the Church to figure things out but eventually I hope it’ll come around. It’s made a lot of progress with the anti-semitism bit. It’d be nice to add this to the list.
Just the same.Marriage only became a civil institution when the goverment needed to make a buck, befoer eit was a religous institution.
well at least we havent changed our opinion on important things like the jews.Just the same.
I know man, the Catholic Church is notorious for being kind and supportive of Jews. And now Catholics and Jews are getting married and having sex!! Better call Bennie though, he’ll feel better if he knows there’s no anal sex goin on. He gets worried about all those health risks and all.well at least we havent changed our opinion on important things like the jews.
You know I just noticed we dont get many jews in this neigborhood, maybe its the low rent district. in the northeast there’s a lot of catholic jewish marriages, talk about confused kids. like the orange and green in norhtern ireland
Let’s not derail this thread anymore than it has been. If you wanna talk antisemitism, let’s go elsewhere.well at least we havent changed our opinion on important things like the jews.
You know I just noticed we dont get many jews in this neigborhood, maybe its the low rent district. in the northeast there’s a lot of catholic jewish marriages, talk about confused kids. like the orange and green in norhtern ireland
With the speed of a glacier, not likeli in our lifetime my friend.Let’s not derail this thread anymore than it has been. If you wanna talk antisemitism, let’s go elsewhere.
My point was that I hope that the Church comes around eventually and supports same-sex marriages. I would like to see the Church do well and I think it would make a powerful statement for it to lend its support to a great cause of social justice.
Walrus addressed this like 3 or 4 pages ago. This is a discussion forum and the topic is not “should the catholic church endorse gay marriage” Did you want everyone to come on and agree with your point of view? That would be really exciting.Walrus you need to find something youve lost, your sense of irony.
Every law we make has some moral basis-look at the stimulus package, its full of moral choices-that’s what goverments do-they legislate morality-see my posting on drug laws.
I would ask does a law like a drug law lead to a societal good or evil? I believe it leads to great evils from murder to burglary, get rid of it.
What societal good does gay marriage achieve social justice-give me a break.
Yes there are things in life thast are higher moral authorities than ourselfs- I suspect you have not noticed but this is a catholic forum- you run into catholics here, they believe the teachings of the catholic church, on a forum with a enlightened religion maybe you find what you want- support for your position but I cant imagine you find it here where the catholic church teaches homosexual activity is a sin. Imagine that, dang.
My first priest left the church because he was gay, I loved and respected him, had dinner with him afterwards, still feel the same about him, but guess what-I dont support how he is living, and I would not support him if he wanted to have a gay marriage.
Not a matter of thinking for myself, I have, I think I’m a catholic and believe the teachings of the church- so I support those teachings. simple as that.
The Church has always been the leader of Social Justice.Let’s not derail this thread anymore than it has been. If you wanna talk antisemitism, let’s go elsewhere.
My point was that I hope that the Church comes around eventually and supports same-sex marriages. I would like to see the Church do well and I think it would make a powerful statement for it to lend its support to a great cause of social justice.
But along with rights comes a thing we call responsibilty.Themes of Catholic Social Teaching
http://www.usccb.org/sdwp/images/solidline.gif
The Church’s social teaching is a rich treasure of wisdom about building a just society and living lives of holiness amidst the challenges of modern society. Modern Catholic social teaching has been articulated through a tradition of papal, conciliar, and episcopal documents. The depth and richness of this tradition can be understood best through a direct reading of these documents. In these brief reflections, we highlight several of the key themes that are at the heart of our Catholic social tradition.
Life and Dignity of the Human Person
The Catholic Church proclaims that human life is sacred and that the dignity of the human person is the foundation of a moral vision for society. This belief is the foundation of all the principles of our social teaching. In our society, human life is under direct attack from abortion and euthanasia. The value of human life is being threatened by cloning, embryonic stem cell research, and the use of the death penalty. Catholic teaching also calls on us to work to avoid war. Nations must protect the right to life by finding increasingly effective ways to prevent conflicts and resolve them by peaceful means. We believe that every person is precious, that people are more important than things, and that the measure of every institution is whether it threatens or enhances the life and dignity of the human person.
Call to Family, Community, and Participation
The person is not only sacred but also social. How we organize our societyin economics and politics, in law and policy directly affects human dignity and the capacity of individuals to grow in community. Marriage and the family are the central social institutions that must be supported and strengthened, not undermined. We believe people have a right and a duty to participate in society, seeking together the common good and well-being of all, especially the poor and vulnerable.
Rights and Responsibilities
The Catholic tradition teaches that human dignity can be protected and a healthy community can be achieved only if human rights are protected and responsibilities are met. Therefore, every person has a fundamental right to life and a right to those things required for human decency. Corresponding to these rights are duties and responsibilities–to one another, to our families, and to the larger society.
Option for the Poor and Vulnerable
A basic moral test is how our most vulnerable members are faring. In a society marred by deepening divisions between rich and poor, our tradition recalls the story of the Last Judgment (Mt 25:31-46) and instructs us to put the needs of the poor and vulnerable first.
The Dignity of Work and the Rights of Workers
The economy must serve people, not the other way around. Work is more than a way to make a living; it is a form of continuing participation in God’s creation. If the dignity of work is to be protected, then the basic rights of workers must be respected–the right to productive work, to decent and fair wages, to the organization and joining of unions, to private property, and to economic initiative.
Solidarity
We are one human family whatever our national, racial, ethnic, economic, and ideological differences. We are our brothers’ and sisters’ keepers, wherever they may be. Loving our neighbor has global dimensions in a shrinking world. At the core of the virtue of solidarity is the pursuit of justice and peace. Pope Paul VI taught that “if you want peace, work for justice.”1 The Gospel calls us to be peacemakers. Our love for all our sisters and brothers demands that we promote peace in a world surrounded by violence and conflict.
Care for God’s Creation
We show our respect for the Creator by our stewardship of creation. Care for the earth is not just an Earth Day slogan, it is a requirement of our faith. We are called to protect people and the planet, living our faith in relationship with all of God’s creation. This environmental challenge has fundamental moral and ethical dimensions that cannot be ignored.
I’m sorry but your hero has not even wiped my nose, he took 4 posts to see the fun I was posting at him befoer he got it and laughed. Next, this is as you seem to not have noticed a catholic forum so a post with response that the church is the moral authority for taking the position that same sex marriages are immoral is ugh like catholic and somewhat relevant to the forum. In fact that argument cannot be refuted except to say ignore ones beliefs and church- but what if that was turned around and you were told to ignore your beliefs ? see my point? on a catholic forum the church whcih we believe in says such and such on a topic trumps I think such and such.Walrus addressed this like 3 or 4 pages ago. This is a discussion forum and the topic is not “should the catholic church endorse gay marriage” Did you want everyone to come on and agree with your point of view? That would be really exciting.
I can see why you wouldn’t want walrus here; He is wiping the mat with your arguments.
And they got a great start with the Crusades.The Church has always been the leader of Social Justice.
Yeah! and without the crusades no tom hanks movie or dale brown anti catholic book what was it? drawing a blank. sequel coming out.And they got a great start with the Crusades.
lol. I guess you “believe” that.I’m sorry but your hero has not even wiped my nose, he took 4 posts to see the fun I was posting at him befoer he got it and laughed. Next, this is as you seem to not have noticed a catholic forum so a post with response that the church is the moral authority for taking the position that same sex marriages are immoral is ugh like catholic and somewhat relevant to the forum. In fact that argument cannot be refuted except to say ignore ones beliefs and church- but what if that was turned around and you were told to ignore your beliefs ? see my point? on a catholic forum the church whcih we believe in says such and such on a topic trumps I think such and such.
Now respond
Hey now, in my defense, you’ve got people on your team who think homosexuals go around molesting children and spreading disease and fisting each other every chance they get. Cut me some slack for being a bit behind on recognizing your “homosexuals care about my opinion” joke.I’m sorry but your hero has not even wiped my nose, he took 4 posts to see the fun I was posting at him befoer he got it and laughed. Next, this is as you seem to not have noticed a catholic forum so a post with response that the church is the moral authority for taking the position that same sex marriages are immoral is ugh like catholic and somewhat relevant to the forum. In fact that argument cannot be refuted except to say ignore ones beliefs and church- but what if that was turned around and you were told to ignore your beliefs ? see my point? on a catholic forum the church whcih we believe in says such and such on a topic trumps I think such and such.
Now respond