Gay Marriage - What's the Problem?

[buffalo]

Yeah it really stinks when someone comes off as judgemental.

Chuck

We can judge behavior, just not salvation.

 

[thepastrychef]

We are ALL called to the vocation of Chastity, heterosexual or homosexual.

God made me with these sexual feelings, surely He doesn’t expect me to pass up all the sex I can get? Yes, He does expect that.

Your trial is more difficult, I understand that.

I fully accept you as a brother in Christ. Your sins are certainly no worse than mine, but, understand they are sins.

You make a lot of sense TOM and I support you in living your life the way you see fit. You are free to do so under the laws of the USA. If you want to deny your own sexual feelings I support your freedom to do so, BUT I can not help but feel sorry for you. Sure, you say “Don’t feel sorry for me”, but I know what you have been missing and it is great. I am not just talking about the act of sex. I am talking about the feelings that come with the sex, the sharing of ones self and the love one can feel outside of marriage.

Also, it is interesting that you and many others assume that I am gay. I am just very interested in the rights of all Americans. I have committed a lot of sin in my time, but there are very few that I would change. Of course I have done things I regret and of course I have done many things that the bible, the church and God would prefer I didn’t. BUT, I am fine with the way I live my life and I am free to live it as I see fit.

 

[buffalo]

You make a lot of sense TOM and I support you in living your life the way you see fit. You are free to do so under the laws of the USA. If you want to deny your own sexual feelings I support your freedom to do so, BUT I can not help but feel sorry for you. Sure, you say “Don’t feel sorry for me”, but I know what you have been missing and it is great. I am not just talking about the act of sex. I am talking about the feelings that come with the sex, the sharing of ones self and the love one can feel outside of marriage.

Also, it is interesting that you and many others assume that I am gay. I am just very interested in the rights of all Americans. I have committed a lot of sin in my time, but there are very few that I would change. Of course I have done things I regret and of course I have done many things that the bible, the church and God would prefer I didn’t. BUT, I am fine with the way I live my life and I am free to live it as I see fit.

Basically, you just answer to yourself.

 

[clmowry]

So let see.

You don’t give a hoot about Catholicism or the Bible or what either teaches.

So what is your point in posting here?

Chuck

 

[GailMac]

Dear Op - So, you’d like to live in slavery to sin and expect to use God to excuse yourself from accountablity for your sins.

Homosexual behaviors are an abomination before God and men. They tend to release the hostilities in folks who are busy about protecting their own from the abominable behaviors of others.

Growing up where I grew up some folks took it upon themselves to kill a guy for trying to pick them up. They found his body in the woods and there was plenty of ink split on the pages of the local papers for a few days. The queer huggers tried to protest the facts of the case, but the paper won and some parents were actually relieved. The editoral desk did a nice job too.

Peace,

Gail

 

[thepastrychef]

There is no right to marry in any constitution in the country, just as there is no right to drive a car. Both require licenses.

Homosexual marriage is not a matter of civil rights. The right claimed by homosexuals, which the Massachusetts case (Goodridge v. Public Health) was based on, is found in the Equal Rights Amendment, and there is no violation of homosexuals’ rights there, either. Before Goodridge** all citizens had equal rights under the law. All were allowed to marry anyone of the opposite sex who would have them. That homosexuals chose not to availl themselves of that right was a decision they made. Rather than accept the consequences of their decision, homosexuals have searched and found corrupt judges to champion their cause from the bench and have succeeded in several states in making homosexual marriage legal. It is a corruption of justice and constitutional law which has deprived the people of their right of self-government and religion is not a factor. In every single state where homosexual marriage has appeared on the ballot the proposition has lost and the will of the people is clear. We do not want the idea of marriage corrupted to accomodate sexual gratification or sexual preference.

As to the Massachusetts case, it was decided 4-3 with the Chief Justice, Margaret Marshall, an immigrant from South Africa and a liberal political activist all her adult life, writing the decision. Marshall was a supporter of the homosexual agenda for years before being named to the bench. She had spoken before homosexual activist groups and clearly was their friend. She should have recused herself from the case since she knew how she would decide it before it came before her. Before she could write her decision in Goodridge she had to change the definition of marriage, which shows you the level of her deceit. She got away with it and the rest is history. Just another corrupt judge.

Marriage itself is not the whole story. To accomodate homosexual marriage we are having shoved down our throats the rest of the agenda, which includes the truly odious practice of brainwashing 5 year old children by lying to them with the notion that Heather has two mommies. Heather, like every other individual on the face of the earth, has one mother and one father. Dragging little kids, who, in their innocence, will believe anything told to them by an adult, into the homosexual agenda is an abomination. If the homosexual community had any decency at all they’s insist the practice be stopped at once! But there is no decency with homosexual activists. They want their agenda written into the law and will stop at nothing to get their way. They demand tolerance for their views, but are the most intolerant people in the country and will do their best to ruin anyone who opposes them.

And it’s not about rights. It’s about normalizing homosexuality and homosexual behavior. Homosexuals fantacize that, if their sexual activity is accepted by society they will rid themselves of the guilt that hounds them, but it won’t. Homosexuality is abnormal and will never be anything but abnormal and, sad to say, their guilt will hound them to the grave.

Divorce is not ‘illegal’ in the Catholic Church. There is no such thing as divorce in the Catholic Church. If you are married in the Catholic Church, you are married to your spouse forever. Divorce is a civil procedure and has nothing to do with the Church. Divorced Catholics are full members of the Church and may receive the Sacrament so long as they don’t violate the 6th Commendment. That means celebacy, unless they can get their marriage anulled.

Your thoughts and beliefs are so ridiculous that I don’t know where to start or if I even want to…

What does the fact that Justice Marshall being from S. America have to do with anything? Are there no Catholic’s in S. America? Do you dislike S. America?

She did not recuse herself just as the Pro-life and Pro-choice judges did not recuse themselves when they passed judgment on Roe v. Wade. You’re Being Ridiculous.

Dragging little kids into the Homosexual lifestyle???
You should not carry rocks into the Glass Church that you attend. And you certainly should not throw them.

The only guilt homosexuals live with the guilt of living in the closet and hiding. Once they come out and share who they really are there is no guilt, unless the church has beat it into their heads.

You know what, forget it…

I will spent time talking to those who have intelligent things to say. You are wrong in many ways and I have no time to correct you over an over again. You are free to respond but I have nothing left to talk to you about until you make some sense.

 

[thepastrychef]

Dear Op - So, you’d like to live in slavery to sin and expect to use God to excuse yourself from accountablity for your sins.

Homosexual behaviors are an abomination before God and men. They tend to release the hostilities in folks who are busy about protecting their own from the abominable behaviors of others.

Growing up where I grew up (Grammar?) some folks took it upon themselves to kill a guy for trying to pick them up. They found his body in the woods and there was plenty of ink split on the pages of the local papers for a few days. The queer huggers tried to protest the facts of the case, but the paper won and some parents were actually relieved. The editoral desk did a nice job too.

Peace, ???

Gail

I do not want take part in your idea of Peace. I am pretty sure Jesus nor God himself would not have taken a human being into the woods to kill him for any reason.

Do us all a favor and stay in your hick town and do not come out.

 

[thepastrychef]

So let see.

You don’t give a hoot about Catholicism or the Bible or what either teaches.

So what is your point in posting here?

Chuck

I am learning and broadening my horizon by speaking to some people on this site. There are plenty of others have nothing much to say.

I will go ahead and put you on the list of people I ignore.

Sorry to bother you.

 

[clmowry]

I am learning and broadening my horizon by speaking to some people on this site. There are plenty of others have nothing much to say.

I will go ahead and put you on the list of people I ignore.

Sorry to bother you.

Sounds like a plan to me.

I thought I asked a straight forward question.

I’m not sure what it is you are tyring to learn.

But I guess learning how to use the ignore function is one thing.

Let me know if you need any help.

Chuck

 

[Ferde_Rombola]

Your thoughts and beliefs are so ridiculous that I don’t know where to start or if I even want to…

What does the fact that Justice Marshall being from S. America have to do with anything? Are there no Catholic’s in S. America? Do you dislike S. America?

South AFRICA.

Got a little hysterical there, didn’t you. Any time you want to discuss the merits, let me know. Frothing at the mouth won’t cut it.

 

[thepastrychef]

South AFRICA.

Got a little hysterical there, didn’t you. Any time you want to discuss the merits, let me know. Frothing at the mouth won’t cut it.

Sorry about that.

Same question applies.

So what is the problem with S. Africa?

I do not wish to discuss the merits of anything with you. I only Froth at the mouth when someone is being totally unreasonable.

Recuse herself??? Ridiculous.

Don’t forget to leave the rocks outside of your glass church.

 

[NotWorthy]

In what may be a hopeless attempt to get this thread back on track.

pastrychef, you ask why we throw away the Old Testament laws simply because we don’t want to be bothered by them.

BibleStudy 101:
If you look at the numerous Laws given in Exodus, Deuteronomy, and Leviticus, you’ll find that Catholics are no longer obliged to follow them.

How do we get that? Acts 15 is the first Christian Council:

Why, then, are you now putting God to the test by placing on the shoulders of the disciples a yoke that neither our ancestors nor we have been able to bear?On the contrary, we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they."… After they had fallen silent, James responded, "My brothers, listen to me. Symeon has described how God first concerned himself with acquiring from among the Gentiles a people for his name.The words of the prophets agree with this, as is written: ‘After this I shall return and rebuild the fallen hut of David; from its ruins I shall rebuild it and raise it up again, so that the rest of humanity may seek out the Lord, even all the Gentiles on whom my name is invoked. Thus says the Lord who accomplishes these things, known from of old.’ It is my judgment, therefore, that we ought to stop troubling the Gentiles who turn to God, but tell them by letter to avoid pollution from idols, unlawful marriage, the meat of strangled animals, and blood.

Note, even the italicized laws given at the end of this passage were lifted according to St. Paul’s letter to the Galatians.Now, you may ask why we have to follow the 10 Commandments, since they were given in Exodus and Leviticus? Jesus affirms that these Laws are still (and always will be) binding. In Matthew 22, we see the following exchange:

“Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?” He said to him, “You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest and the first commandment. The second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments.”

But those are only two commandments, you may ask. Well, those two wrap up all ten Commandments, according to the Jews. The first three are Love of God, and the next seven are Love of Neighbor.

So, please don’t ask us why we don’t follow Levicitus xx:yy or such, because its no longer binding.

That’s why Catholics don’t have to order kosher foods on flights.

 

[NotWorthy]

BTW, pastrychef, I know you’ve been busy with some of my fellow Christians, but I posted responses to your last questions to me on #'s 42 & 43.

 

[Tom]

You make a lot of sense TOM and I support you in living your life the way you see fit.

It has little to do with the way “I” see fit. That’s the point, we follow what God says, we don’t replace God with our own conscience. I try very hard to follow His teachings which are diametrically opposed to the secular, sexually driven world. I could care less if everyone in the world thinks I’m crazy for trying to follow Gods teaching.

You are free to do so under the laws of the USA. If you want to deny your own sexual feelings I support your freedom to do so, BUT I can not help but feel sorry for you. Sure, you say “Don’t feel sorry for me”, but I know what you have been missing and it is great. I am not just talking about the act of sex. I am talking about the feelings that come with the sex, the sharing of ones self and the love one can feel outside of marriage.

So, you think you know what I’m missing? You haven’t a clue. Love to me is not equal to sex. God so loved us He gave His only Son. Now that’s love, notice, nowhere does it say He expects to have sex with us. How can He love us if He doesn’t want to have sex with us? Doesn’t He know Sex=Love? Jesus loves us so much He suffered and died a horrible death for us. But wait He never asked us to have sex either, just love. He asks us to love one another, not screw one another! Love is NOT sex. I can go down town and have sex all night long to women I don’t even know, has NOTHING to do with love. I can also love everyone, yet never have sex with them. So strange, how can you love but not jump into bed with someone?

Also, it is interesting that you and many others assume that I am gay. I am just very interested in the rights of all Americans.

I don’t recall saying I thought you were homosexual. I’m interested in finding Gods will and following it even when it means denying myself.
Good luck, may the peace and love of our Lord, Jesus the Christ, be with you, goodbye.

 

[fwon2638]

Dear all,

Opposing “gay marriage” has got nothing to do with discrimination. Rather, the term “gay marriage” is self-contradictory.

From a societal prospective, marriage is more then just about love, commitment and feeling. While these factors are important, they are not the only aspect. Otherwise, I cannot see any reason as to why we can possibly object polygamy and polyamory. After all, we are living in a free society and can do whatever we want so long as it is not illegal. Further, I believe that the parties (for example two men and one woman) in a three-party union can be just as loving and committed to each other.

The other aspect of marriage is that it leads to procreation. It is well know that couples get married because they want to have their own children. So much so, the word “matrimony” comes from the Latin word “matrimonium” which means “being or becoming mother” (implying procreation). Our society sees the benefit of procreation as the size of its population is a key to its survival. It is through marriage that our society can have new members thereby enabling it to growth. (I hope none of the readers here will tell me that it is ok to have children outside marriage). It is because of this benefit, our society in turn recognise the institution of marriage with a special status.

Obviously, homosexual couples can never procreate and their “union” can never be same as heterosexual couples. This reality is undeniable. Despite this reality, the proponents of “gay marriage” attempt to change the definition of marriage in the name of fairness and equality. However, in doing so, unbeknown to themselves, they are in fact destroying the institution of marriage. By dismissing procreation as a factor (which they must), the proponents are now saying that marriage has got nothing to do with having children. As discussed above, such change radically degrade the nature and meaning of marriage to something that is foreign to our society. If marriage has got nothing to do with procreation, why would one bother, may I ask, to get married in the first place? If marriage does not lead to procreation, why would we need to regard marriage as something special?

In light of the foregoing reasons, our society is unable to recognise “gay marriage” just as it cannot make homosexual couples to have their own children. It is not a human right issue. Our society simply does not define marriage for us. Rather, it recognises marriage as part of our human nature.

 

[cranster]

God’s Laws are written in our hearts. No matter where we live, under what civil laws, we must decide with our own free will how we will behave.

Cranster, gl to you, I will include you in my rosary tomorrow and say a special prayer for you. Speaking from experience, you will NEVER regret your decision to remain chaste until you next receive a Sacrament. **

I just wanted to point out that it is a lie that a person cannot live without sex. The phallacy is that since “God made me this way, I have as much right as anyone else to have sex”. Yes people have that right but to their own eternal peril. Yes Jesus is loving and merciful, but he didn’t mince words about what He expects from us. Repentance from sin, and to take up our cross and follow him. His word on the matter is eternal and final and never subject to change. We change, cultures change, but God never changes.

Thank you so much for the prayers.

 

[Ferde_Rombola]

Sorry about that.

Same question applies.

So what is the problem with S. Africa?

I do not wish to discuss the merits of anything with you. I only Froth at the mouth when someone is being totally unreasonable.

Recuse herself??? Ridiculous.

Don’t forget to leave the rocks outside of your glass church.

Nothing’s wrong with South Africa. The point is, that’s this woman’s country; it’s where she grew up. Her morals and mores were not established in our country and we’d have been much better off if she had stayed put.

I’m sure you don’t wish to discuss the merits with me. You don’t like having the truth put to you, so you make it personal. It’s a typical, fraudulent homosexual response. Nothing I said was unreasonable and if you knew anything about judicial ethics you’d agree Marshall should have recused herself.

Since the allegations I have made against the homosexual lobby are unanswered, they will be taken as true. That’s the way it is in law and that’s the way it is on debate forums.

 

[cranster]

just as gay marriages do not affect you in any way.

It affects all of humanity in the respect that God never lets these things go on forever. He allows chastisements to cause us to turn from sin, and turn back to Him. He destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. Through abortion and world wide acceptance of homosexuality the world is inviting a chastisement from God.

It affects me because it means that a part of God’s creation is willfully choosing to separate from Him for eternity, which is a thought to horrific to even contemplate. I will not be able to share the pure and perfect love of God with them forever. That is a terrible sadness, but as long as a person is breathing reconciliation with God is deeply desirable to Him.

 

[Ferde_Rombola]

I just wanted to point out that it is a lie that a person cannot live without sex.

You’ll never get an active homosexual to agree with you. Their life is sex. It’s on their minds 24-7 and most of them are not too discerning. Those who have ‘married’ will try to get you to believe they are faithful to their partner, but don’t believe them. (Their partners aren’t faithful, either. It’s a deal they’ve made.)

 

[cranster]

You’ll never get an active homosexual to agree with you. Their life is sex. It’s on their minds 24-7 and most of them are not too discerning. Those who have ‘married’ will try to get you to believe they are faithful to their partner, but don’t believe them. (Their partners aren’t faithful, either. It’s a deal they’ve made.)

It’s the fruit of a hardened heart.