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Seeker2010
Guest
Well, since the church insists on chastity from homosexuals, I suppose it’s possible. But what fun would that be?
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NE_Catholic
Guest
aren’t we talking about bi-sexuals?
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Seeker2010
Guest
Yes, sorry if I wasn’t clear.aren’t we talking about bi-sexuals?
I meant what fun would it be to be bisexual and chaste.
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ManOnFire
Guest
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ManOnFire
Guest
Well, you bring up a good question: what is attraction? What if bisexual means that one’s romanticism with the significant other waned, one eventually got bored with heterosexuality and became attracted to trying something kinky? The attraction is to the kinky, not necessarily to the same gender. Or, one could make the argument that one is “attracted” to frequent orgasms.
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John21652
Guest
Being chaste as a bi-sexual should give the same feeling of moral courage and strength as being a chast homosexual. And probably the same feeling of moral courage as being a chaste heterosexual. But, like the good and total hedonist you have show yourself to be, you can only focus on the “fun”. Even being blind as to just how disordered, unnatural and morally corrupt and weak that hedonism really is.
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karoleck
Guest
I have been pondering this statement about there being no organized “push” on giving people with the same sex life-style “rights” such as “gay marriage”! I was thinking in what planet does this poster live in–but on reflection I believe that this statement is correct in view of where the poster lives—“somewhere in Europe”.Yes there is no organized group there ;because most of Europe has capitulated it’s Judeo/christian morality! As The Holy Father stated not long ago that most of Europe has reverted to a pagan society.Poland and Ireland are two that are trying to struggle against this shift to the rule of satan.Unfortunately sometimes people have a difficult time accepting that a difference in opinion is not necessarily uncharitable.
For example, I personally believe that there is no one, homogenous homosexual or feminist organisation with one powerful agenda but many here mistake that for me being anti-catholic.No matter how charitable i am. So i appreiciate when others are.
However,in the States and places like Australia and New Zealand,there is a very well organized,militant homosexual lobby pushing for "gay rights such as a government protected right to marry,adopt children in same sex homes,right to IVF,euthanasia and abortion up till birth etc.I accept that the poster is not anti-catholic–as Christ said those that are not against Me are for Me.So I presume that the poster unholds Christ’s teachings that marriage is between a man and a woman then?
Just recently I saw that a Christian(non catholic) run holiday camp was fined $5000 for “discrimenating against homosexuals” as when the person taking the book found out that the group who wanted to use their place promoted same sex unions ;they politely explained that as christians they could not in good consience accept a group of about twenty teenagers,led by adults affirming their “chosen” life style.This is a good view of what “gay rights” are all about.!!
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John21652
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There is indeed an “agenda”. Simply Google it and you will find that there is a strong move on to “normalise” homosexuality. There has been a strong move on gat rights for a good many years now. At first they just wanted to be left alone, to be understood and even epathised with. Bit it has gone way past that point now and the homosexual lobby wants to have homosexual behaviour “normalised”. They hide behind non discrimination legislation and the notion of ‘free speech’ while they voise their dissaproval at anti-gay dialogue. They wish to make normal that which is abnormal. They term it a lifestyle choice and anyone who disagrees is hauled before the court of public opinion and labelled ‘homophobic’, or biased, bigoted, or discriminatory. Meanwhile young impressionable school children are even being taught that homosexuality is a “lifestyle choice”, something to be accepted as “normal”. Little wonder then that young teenagers begin to experiment with a “lifestyle” they are told is “normal”. It is a perversion of every moral edict the human race has ever lived by. It is illogical, unnatural and disordered behaviour dressed up as normal.
Karoleck, your last paragraph highlights just how silly anti-discrimination laws are. They, in effect, ram down the throats of people a morality they would naturally reject. The human species has developed and thrived using discrimination as a tool for the building of personal lives and whole societies. Discrimination is how we decide what is best for ourselves when we choose our foods, our careers and even our friends. In terms of a national society, we discriminate in favour of that which causes us to thrive. Yet today, morality as well as personal preferences and even national preferences are being subverted by rules that tell us we can no longer discriminate against that we think does not suit us. Once upon a time, the ability to discern, or discriminate, was a skill taught to the youths of almost every nation. Today, it is being subverted by a realativistic mindset that is not in accord with human nature.
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karoleck
Guest
“Fun”! You are correct in your conclusions John about this posters claim to hedonism “Live,drink and make merry ,for tommorow we die”! That was post war Austria/Germany which Hitler-------as in the musical about that time"The world is a cabaret old chum-come to my cabaret"
tried to promote–this is the world that Peter Singers’ grandfather and many of the secular jews promoted–fueled by Freud.This is the world that Peter Singer espouses.At least Adler was closer to the truth about man–as he observed that sex was not the only driving factor,he concluded rejection was another one.The underlying facter covering this subject is lack of affirmation or love I believe.So John he/she might be after “fun” but affirming love is what is being seeked?
It was the “fun” that was adopted by the socialist party(read communism)–a fun world without God.I used to mentor a person who “chose FUN”;he even told me that he was a “free spirit”–yes he was addicted to his sexual perversions–how can a person who is a slave to lust be free.? Ghandi,Budda all from a natural observation came to the same conclusion that detatchment and not attachment to “fun” was what brought peace and joy–even on the natural level.
Sure this applies to every person including myself ;if I give into my sexual passions of lust.That is why Christ claimed to be The Way,The Truth and The Life;it is only Christ who can give me true freedom,peace and joy.The invitation is to all with no exception- read–same sex persons!!
I am not against those people with same sex attractions,they like the rest of humanity that have to deal with the consequences of their fallen nature.But before anyone can change any weakness it has to be acknowledged for what it really is.As the saying goes----
YOU CANNOT REALLY KNOW–
WHAT YOU DON’T KNOW------
UNLESS YOU KNOW
A clever use of words but reality always wins out in the end;that is one good that can come out of a forum like this,we have the opportunity to learn what we do not know.To see ourselves as other’s doest see us" by poet Robbie Burns. “I will confess my guilt to the Lord,my guilt I will not hide”
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NE_Catholic
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CradleCath
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I think when one can’t find true happiness, peace & an inner joy…they look for “fun” & chase it in a never ending way that leads deeper & deeper into an abyss. They find one “fun” & after awhile it isn’t satisfying anymore, so they look for another “fun”, etc., etc.Fun?
ok
I think that’s what happens with many celebrities. They have enough money to buy “fun”. When the “fun” isnt’ “fun” anymore…they look to the next kinky FUN, the next drug, etc., etc. Not realizing that their search for fun will never lead them to what they want.
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Charlemagne_II
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Veronica
*In the words of St. Therese - Do not set yourself up as Judge - that is God’s right alone. Your only mission is to be an angel of peace. *
What is the difference in your mind between chastising and judging?
Was Paul wrong to chastise the Christian man who was having an affair with his stepmother? Didn’t he have to judge him to be in the wrong before he could chastise him?
*In the words of St. Therese - Do not set yourself up as Judge - that is God’s right alone. Your only mission is to be an angel of peace. *
What is the difference in your mind between chastising and judging?
Was Paul wrong to chastise the Christian man who was having an affair with his stepmother? Didn’t he have to judge him to be in the wrong before he could chastise him?
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Charlemagne_II
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Seeker
*Sheesh, it’s starting to sound like a meeting of the klan up in here. Homosexuality is NOT a mental illness. *
Now that depends on how you define a mental illness. It is certainly a mental disorder and has always been considered so by every society since the dawn of history.
It has been severely punished in some societies, or scolded and ridiculed in others. It has never been put on the same plane with heterosexuality, though in our own time there has been a mighty effort to do so.
There are many studies showing that homosexuality is the result of children being sexually abused.
home60515.com/3.html
*Sheesh, it’s starting to sound like a meeting of the klan up in here. Homosexuality is NOT a mental illness. *
Now that depends on how you define a mental illness. It is certainly a mental disorder and has always been considered so by every society since the dawn of history.
It has been severely punished in some societies, or scolded and ridiculed in others. It has never been put on the same plane with heterosexuality, though in our own time there has been a mighty effort to do so.
There are many studies showing that homosexuality is the result of children being sexually abused.
home60515.com/3.html
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karoleck
Guest
(your statement “is the result of children being sexually abused” may be one factor-reading your link gives others as well,I am sure that it is only a wrong choice of words.)
That is a good link and a good overall quick statement of the present known factors of what drives people to same sex attractions–nothing has really changed here is what John R.Cavanagh & McGoldrick wrote on this subject in Fundamental Psychiatry
"Homosexuality(Lesbianism or sapphic love when females are concerned) or inversion may be defined as a **PERVERSION **CHARACTERIZED BY A DESIRE FOR SEXUAL RETATIONS WITH MEMBERS OF THE SAME SEX"p.552
“Moore’s conclusions on this point may be summed up as follows:It is doubtful that homosexuals are anatomically distinct;even granted that they are,the question remains–is it a normal deviation or a pathological type?Apart from the hypothesis,evidence does not differentiate homosexuals as a class separated from men or women as clearly as men are separated from women,and vise versa.Moreover,the idea of homosexuality as due to some unfathomable force in nature compelling one to act as he does is a creation of the homosexual mind,a parataxis of defence.”
“From an empirical,scientific point of view,the major factors in the occurance of homosexuality are phychic in their nature rather than organic.From the philosophical and biological point of view,any displacement of the sex drive that makes impossible the attainment of the proper end of the sexual function **must of it’s nature be abnormal.**Accordingly,homosexuality and its fruitless acts must be pathological condition,whether the underlying pathology is of a psychic or an organic character.”
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Seeker2010
Guest
And I get the feeling that many here would love to go back to that. Fortunately, it’s not going to happen. It WILL be on the same plane as heterosexuality in my lifetime.
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Charlemagne_II
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Seeker
*And I get the feeling that many here would love to go back to that. Fortunately, it’s not going to happen. It WILL be on the same plane as heterosexuality in my lifetime. *
No, I think nobody would like to go back to that. But it will never be on the same plane as heterosexuality in your lifetime. Live with it.
*And I get the feeling that many here would love to go back to that. Fortunately, it’s not going to happen. It WILL be on the same plane as heterosexuality in my lifetime. *
No, I think nobody would like to go back to that. But it will never be on the same plane as heterosexuality in your lifetime. Live with it.
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Seeker2010
Guest
This conclusion is only valid if you ignore the fact that pleasure can be the intent of sexual activity, and in such instances, assuming pleasure is achieved, that becomes the ‘proper end of the sexual function’.
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Charlemagne_II
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Seeker
his conclusion is only valid if you ignore the fact that pleasure can be the intent of sexual activity, and in such instances, assuming pleasure is achieved, that becomes the ‘proper end of the sexual function’.
Pleasure in itself cannot be the proper end of any activity if it frustrates the moral order. If a man says it pleasures him to hit women, does that mean he has used his hands "for the proper end of their function?If a man shoves his penis up another man’s anus for what he calls the pleasure of it, does that mean he has achieved “the proper end of the sexual function” (your words, not mine)?
his conclusion is only valid if you ignore the fact that pleasure can be the intent of sexual activity, and in such instances, assuming pleasure is achieved, that becomes the ‘proper end of the sexual function’.
Pleasure in itself cannot be the proper end of any activity if it frustrates the moral order. If a man says it pleasures him to hit women, does that mean he has used his hands "for the proper end of their function?If a man shoves his penis up another man’s anus for what he calls the pleasure of it, does that mean he has achieved “the proper end of the sexual function” (your words, not mine)?
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Seeker2010
Guest
But you haven’t established that it’s frustrating moral order. Your logic is circular.
Being on the receiving end of blows is not the moral equivalent to consensual sexual activity.
Actually they weren’t my words, they were from a quote another poster put up. Nonetheless, assuming the recipient is a consenting adult human, and pleasure was the goal, then absolutely yes.
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CradleCath
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