Gay marriage : who cares?

[Charlemagne_II]

seeker

*But you haven’t established that it’s frustrating moral order. Your logic is circular. *

Oh, I didn’t know I had to prove that getting pleasure from beating women with your fists might not be frustrating the moral order. Excuuuuuse me!

Being on the receiving end of blows is not the moral equivalent to consensual sexual activity.

But what if the woman consents to being beaten?

*Nonetheless, assuming the recipient is a consenting adult human, and pleasure was the goal, then absolutely yes. *

I suspect that many people consent not because the want to be sodomized, but because they are dominated by someone else. Some men consent to be sodomized by other men who are older and wealthier just because they want the dependence on the older man. Some wives agree to be sodomized not because they enjoy it, but because the are fearful of losing the affection and approval of their husbands. Some men in prison consent to it because they are afraid of being beaten to death if they don’t.

Frankly, I don’t see why the man playing the female part in sodomy can enjoy it. It staggers my imagination, and I have to believe that such consent is somehow rooted in childhood abuse that has produced a distorted view of the pleasure to be gotten from sex.

Are you fat, by any chance? In other words, do you live to eat ( for pleasure) or do you eat to live? The hedonist puts everything on pleasure, forgetting the moral responsibility to respect his body. Hence the addiction to drugs, liquor, food, pornography, etc.

 

[PassingThru]

I suspect that many people consent not because the want to be sodomized, but because they are dominated by someone else. Some men consent to be sodomized by other men who are older and wealthier just because they want the dependence on the older man. Some wives agree to be sodomized not because they enjoy it, but because the are fearful of losing the affection and approval of their husbands. Some men in prison consent to it because they are afraid of being beaten to death if they don’t.

Frankly, I don’t see why the man playing the female part in sodomy can enjoy it. It staggers my imagination, and I have to believe that such consent is somehow rooted in childhood abuse that has produced a distorted view of the pleasure to be gotten from sex.

Finally a statement that help explain your position. You can not even accept the fact that some people are gay and enjoy both the emotional and physical aspects of a partnership as much as a straight couple. This is why rational discussion with you is so difficult. It does not matter what is “natural” or “moral” or any of the other finer aspects you are discussing. The simple fact is you can not and will not accept that the very existence of a gay relationship can have the same characteristics of a straight relationship. Even if we grant that your church does not have to accept it, or even consider it valid for any reason, is irrelevant. Even if we can prove without a shadow of a doubt that there is no legal to reason to prohibit gay marriage, it will not change the statement you just made.

All homosexuality is caused by childhood abuse. What a simpleton.

Are you fat, by any chance? In other words, do you live to eat ( for pleasure) or do you eat to live? The hedonist puts everything on pleasure, forgetting the moral responsibility to respect his body. Hence the addiction to drugs, liquor, food, pornography, etc.

Really?

 

[karoleck]

And I get the feeling that many here would love to go back to that. Fortunately, it’s not going to happen. It WILL be on the same plane as heterosexuality in my lifetime.

"One element of the enviroment must always be considered–the existance of a society of homosexuals in every large city.The adolescent or the curious may be caught into its practices.Here a question of proper laws comes to the fore.There may be a reason to modify existing laws,but Moore(Thomas.V."The Pathogenisis and Treatment of Homosexual Disorders"Journal of Personality Vol14 No1) feels that they should not be repealed outright,basing this stand on the following considerations:

"Homosexuality is to a large extent an acquired abnormality and propagates itself as a MORALLY CONTAGIOUS DISEASE.As such,it tends to erect a special society,unproductive and harmful.It is not correct to say that because all homosexuals are biologically determined they have rights that society must allow.Certainly,not all homosexuality is biologically determined;much,if not all,is to a great extent the outcome of psychological factors."

“Besides this,it is not clear that homosexuals in whom there may be a biological trend to perversion cannot with proper effortmake a normal hetrosexual adjustment.In any case,he concludes.laws should not presuppose biological foundations,but rather consider the homosexual as a mental PATIENT AND TAKE DUE STEPS TO CONTROL THE SPREAD OF PSYCHOLOGICAL CAUSES.”
Quote from Fundamental Psychiatry by John Cavanagh ,B.S.,M.D…,F.A.C.P.,K.S.G. & James B.McGoldrick.M.A.,Ph.D.,S.J.

So no,I personally would not like to see the old laws such as putting into prison consenting adult people with the same sex attractions–it is a big step then to allow public laws acknowledging a perversion which “gay marriage” is.The original thread stated that Christians should be more concerned with the breakdown of the God given sacrament of marriage which is between a man and a woman,than “gay marriage”.It is like saying mothers should be concerned with changing dirty nappies and not worry about bathing or washing the baby!Does not compute!!

 

[karoleck]

(your statement “is the result of children being sexually abused” may be one factor-reading your link gives others as well,I am sure that it is only a wrong choice of words.)

I agree. While, for instance, some of our Catholic boys who were seduced & abused by gay priests have become homosexual themselves…but, I believe that this is not a really big factor in the average male child becoming gay. (It is understandable that this happens as a result of homosexual abuse in a few young boys. They believe that there was “something about them” which **drew **gay priests to them. Also a 14 yr. old boy can become aroused by anything, so they possibly linked the arousal to the rape???)

I however, believe in the scenario I described a few posts back: with absent or distant Father & a Mother who is the dominant person in the household & very critical & demeaning to the Father. I believe that …since I actually am close to the three families who raised homosexuals in that kind of envirornment. However, I don’t think anyone knows for SURE & am still open to different theories.

In the case of Lesbians, I think it’s different. One of the girls who used to work for me has two children, was very much involved with the two men who fathered these children. Both of these men were complete losers. They used her & gave back very little. I know that the second man didn’t even have a job. Well, one day…she decided she was “done with men” & two months later that she’d “turned Lesbian” & is now living & having sex with her female “lover”. (It’s very upsetting because she is quite intelligent & hard-working, just made some BAD choices in men.)

I’ve also noticed that celebrities, singers & actresses who have been married, had children & are now “Lesbians”. It seems to get the attention they need. Anyone have any comments on the difference between gay men & Lesbians???

That is true on what you write on all points I believe,whilst we all can source good references backing up facts to this thread;there is nothing like the sad experience of personal knowledge.As I stated before I was a little reluctant to get into this thread as I do not want a person who read my posts , to think that I hate him or her just because they suffer from same sex attraction.I am sure that you love your extended family members even though you do not approve of the “gay lifestyle” that they live out.For the very reason that you have grave fears for their eternal salvation if they are not living chaste lives–as any hetrosexual person in an irregular marriage.(you hate the sin and not the person).
I believe that you are correct that females with a same sex attraction do act differently than their male counterparts.
Females if they wish,can conceal the anomality and more likely to seek a long-life,faithful,and reciprocating partner.They can live together without arousing suspicions,kiss or embrace in public without attracting attention.If discovered the disorder is treated more indulgently by popular opinion(except maybe their fellow female workers or peers?)
Females with the same sex attractions see to stress less on physical expression than among men,they may remain romantic and deeply involved with just hugging and kissing.The females with SSA are usually not identifiable by appearance or mannerisms,neither do they usually differ hormonally or anatomically from hetrosexual women.Masculine traits if present do not make her a “lesbian”.A woman may even be less aware of her SSA tendencies than a man,simply because women tend to express their emotions in a more diffused way and are not subject to genital arousal with the same localized intensity as men.

I am only passing on what I have read on this subject but I believe that what is posted on this posting between yourself and my thoughts are accurate.Perhaps a female person with a SSA can give more enlightenment to your question.

I believe that organizations of self help to persons with SSA(same sex attractions) are such a great idea–especially the christian/catholic groups.COURAGE is one group and ENCOURAGE (for parents/partners of SSA persons)

 

[GaryTaylor]

God cares, apparently he’s the one in charge here since day one and till the end. You live in his world…PERIOD.

When you violate his Word you Suffer the consequences, its that simple.

Gay Marriage is another sin, and one of many in this world. IF you are in his situation like any other of perpetual sin, pray to God and ask for forgiveness.

Listen theres Catholic who go to Church weekly, live what appears to be a life in the path of God. Yet they are alcoholics, drug addicts or whatever. We “ALL” have our Cross to bear in this world. Its just that simple. As with many Christians who harbor different sin.

Then theres those who come close to a unstained life. God Bless those Souls. We live in world of traps, temptation, greed, lust, violence and every other abomination lucifer could dream up. God Bless those Souls who step through this mind field unscarred.

Do not mistake direction with perfection. Because you are not in a state of perfect Grace with God, should you totally avoid his Word and path? Thats foolish thinking.

Every one of us needs to take our own inventory “not others” and pray for forgiveness for our own sins.

Who am I to judge Gays? While this isn’t my Cross, I assure you I have my own to bear.

I pray for those who struggle with this obstacle. Understanding obstacles which were not a part of my life were crucial in helping me understand my own faults in life. I can assure you that. How quick we are to take anothers inventory and judge. Look at your own back yard. Worry about keeping that clean.

Sexual Pleasure in this world is simply of this world. Highly overrated and over advertised by satan to keep sins in the face of weak Souls.

Listen you ever really read Mark 4: 1-20? Read it a few times and clearly understand this chapter. Listen to Christ speak here.

I could tell you this from experienece. While a Gay lifestyle isn’t my Cross, one of Sexual conquest outside the laws of God was for years. You simply come to understand as you mature physically and mentally its of this world. The Word of God remains regardless what any of us think or do. When we act off our own micky mouse feelings of inadaquacy, the Word of God still stands and we stand in direct opposition. Always, always clearly understand this.

God Bless, GT

 

[ManOnFire]

I think when one can’t find true happiness, peace & an inner joy…they look for “fun” & chase it in a never ending way that leads deeper & deeper into an abyss. They find one “fun” & after awhile it isn’t satisfying anymore, so they look for another “fun”, etc., etc.

I think that’s what happens with many celebrities. They have enough money to buy “fun”. When the “fun” isnt’ “fun” anymore…they look to the next kinky FUN, the next drug, etc., etc. Not realizing that their search for fun will never lead them to what they want.

These are exactly my sentiments. And they apply to your average income heterosexual too. Too many people have become addicted to shallow, temptorary pleasures that don’t last. Once the fleeting moments of blissful glee wear off, they are addicted to searching for the next. What happened to romanticism and depth? It seems that so many people who have never learned this way have trouble “seeing” it’s utility. It’s almost as if they can’t see outside themselves to “see” it. I feel very fortunate that I was enlightened in this way.

 

[ManOnFire]

(your statement “is the result of children being sexually abused” may be one factor-reading your link gives others as well,I am sure that it is only a wrong choice of words.)

I agree. While, for instance, some of our Catholic boys who were seduced & abused by gay priests have become homosexual themselves…but, I believe that this is not a really big factor in the average male child becoming gay. (It is understandable that this happens as a result of homosexual abuse in a few young boys. They believe that there was “something about them” which **drew **gay priests to them. Also a 14 yr. old boy can become aroused by anything, so they possibly linked the arousal to the rape???)

I however, believe in the scenario I described a few posts back: with absent or distant Father & a Mother who is the dominant person in the household & very critical & demeaning to the Father. I believe that …since I actually am close to the three families who raised homosexuals in that kind of envirornment. However, I don’t think anyone knows for SURE & am still open to different theories.

In the case of Lesbians, I think it’s different. One of the girls who used to work for me has two children, was very much involved with the two men who fathered these children. Both of these men were complete losers. They used her & gave back very little. I know that the second man didn’t even have a job. Well, one day…she decided she was “done with men” & two months later that she’d “turned Lesbian” & is now living & having sex with her female “lover”. (It’s very upsetting because she is quite intelligent & hard-working, just made some BAD choices in men.)

I’ve also noticed that celebrities, singers & actresses who have been married, had children & are now “Lesbians”. It seems to get the attention they need. Anyone have any comments on the difference between gay men & Lesbians???

Since the unelected media has unilaterally decided to promote Independent Individualism (which is really just a remarketed way of saying “be selfish”), our egos have become protected from bruising since we now think that we are right or “correct.” The truly closed-minded people go so far as to attempt to enforce the Unelected media’s version of Social Justice, without questioning the motives of a couple of media CEOs who are pulling the strings of the puppet. Anyway, Independent Individualism tells us that we are right or correct. And if we believe that we are right or correct, then it can’t “my” fault. So, if it’s not “my” fault, then in the case of “some” homosexuals, it must be the “other” teams fault, xenophobia style. The desire to achieve an understanding involves effort and humility. It’s much easier and more ego-protective for the self’s ego to blame problems on the other half of the world population, many of whom have been admittedly reduced by the shallow addictions present in pop culture.

If my #1 goal in life was to have frequent orgasms, then the choices for a man are to be a p*rn star, or be homosexual. The research shows the number of frequent partners and the risks involved. Even the movies have stereotypes about highway rest stop potential. I could never be this shallow, but to each his own. But there’s no justice when a young man who desires frequent orgasms gets sucked into a lifestyle where he treats his body like a peice of orgasmic meat, becomes too “attracted” to sex to want to give it up, and won’t know the joys of parenthood and his contribution to history. History has already seen this movement in Caligula and the fall of the Roman Empire, so it’s already been tried and led to the failure of an empire. The U.S. is sure to suffer the same fate IF this happens. It’s just a matter of time. History repeats itself. And for what? Because a couple of egos thought they were right or correct and refused to humble themselves? How Hitleresque. If people have become so addicted to pleasure that they are willing to coerce judges and politicians to ignore the rights of voters, then we have serious problems that are likely to cause more problems and lack of peace.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

PassingThru

*All homosexuality is caused by childhood abuse. What a simpleton. *

For you to react like that I must have said something that really hit home. I feel for you. Try to be more temperate in your language.

The simple fact is you can not and will not accept that the very existence of a gay relationship can have the same characteristics of a straight relationship.

I will not call you a simpleton for saying that.

 

[PassingThru]

PassingThru

*All homosexuality is caused by childhood abuse. What a simpleton. *

For you to react like that I must have said something that really hit home. I feel for you. Try to be more temperate in your language.

What are you, 12 years old? A gay accusation? And you want me to be more “temperate” in my language? That is temperate language.

(Unless you are going down the abuse road, which is really twisted.)

Do you stand by the idea that gay men are that way only because of childhood abuse? (Sounded like you were assuming sexual abuse) I will venture to guess that you have nothing to back that up other than your preconceived notions and prejudices in your head.

Because you wrote such a silly and simplistic reason for you prejudiced opinion, I called you a simpleton. Which is accurate. If you disagree, please let me know where I was in error.

By the way, it is usually people who are hung up and vilifying homosexuals that have a higher chance of covering for an internal conflict. Please keep talking about you just cant bear to think about gay sex. You seem to mention it quite a bit.

The simple fact is you can not and will not accept that the very existence of a gay relationship can have the same characteristics of a straight relationship.

I will not call you a simpleton for saying that.

I would hope not, you said so yourself. Read your own post.

 

[Abu]

All the huffing and puffing to promote homosexual “marriage” falls apart on the evidence.

The myth that homosexual relationships in general are qualitatively the same as heterosexual relationships — a myth that is crucial to the current push for legalization of same-sex “marriage” — is simply not borne out by the evidence.

 

[karoleck]

PassingThru

*All homosexuality is caused by childhood abuse. What a simpleton. *

For you to react like that I must have said something that really hit home. I feel for you. Try to be more temperate in your language.

The simple fact is you can not and will not accept that the very existence of a gay relationship can have the same characteristics of a straight relationship.

I will not call you a simpleton for saying that.

You have great charity ,I too was not impressed by the poster calling you a “simpleton”.If a person wants to be shown repect; they should give what they want!! I came across this article this morning which deals with the issue of individial rights versus the common good which a government must always legislate for.

“Perhaps America’s brand of secularism poses a particular problem-----The result is the SEPARATION OF FAITH FROM LIFE --'LIVING”-- AS IF GOD DID NOT EXIST"–THIS IS AGGREVATED BY AN INDIVIDUALISTIC AND ECLECTIC APPROACH TO FAITH AND RELIGION.—far from a catholic approach to “think with the Church” each person believes he or she has a right to pick and choose,maintaining external bonds but without an integral,interior conversion to the law of Christ."(he gave the example of the scandle of so called “catholics” who promoted a right to choose abortion )

“What is needed,I am convinced,is a greater sense of the intrinsic relationship between the Gospel and the natural law on the one hand,and, on the other,the pursuit of authentic human good as embodied in civil law and in personal moral decisions.”

“In a society that rightly values personal liberty,the Church needs to promote at every level of teaching–an apologetics aimed at affirming the truth of Christian revelation,the harmony of faith and reason,and a sound understanding of freedom,seen in positive terms as a liberation both from the limitations of sin and for the authentic and fulfilling life.”----“THE “DICTATORSHIP” OF RELATIVISM, IN THE END,IS NOTHING LESS THAN A THREAT TO GENUINE HUMAN FREEDOM,WHICH ONLY MATURES IN GENEROSITY AND FIDELITY TO THE TRUTH.”

The above quotes were part of a speach given by the Holy Father,at the Washington Shrine of The Immaculate Conception 16th.April 2008.

Many catholic voters did not heed the Pontiff then–I wonder if they will now ,as at these elections where “gay Marriage” rights are being pushed?

"What is needed

 

[karoleck]

God cares, apparently he’s the one in charge here since day one and till the end. You live in his world…PERIOD.

When you violate his Word you Suffer the consequences, its that simple.

Gay Marriage is another sin, and one of many in this world. IF you are in his situation like any other of perpetual sin, pray to God and ask for forgiveness.

Listen theres Catholic who go to Church weekly, live what appears to be a life in the path of God. Yet they are alcoholics, drug addicts or whatever. We “ALL” have our Cross to bear in this world. Its just that simple. As with many Christians who harbor different sin.

Then theres those who come close to a unstained life. God Bless those Souls. We live in world of traps, temptation, greed, lust, violence and every other abomination lucifer could dream up. God Bless those Souls who step through this mind field unscarred.

Do not mistake direction with perfection. Because you are not in a state of perfect Grace with God, should you totally avoid his Word and path? Thats foolish thinking.

Every one of us needs to take our own inventory “not others” and pray for forgiveness for our own sins.

Who am I to judge Gays? While this isn’t my Cross, I assure you I have my own to bear.

I pray for those who struggle with this obstacle. Understanding obstacles which were not a part of my life were crucial in helping me understand my own faults in life. I can assure you that. How quick we are to take anothers inventory and judge. Look at your own back yard. Worry about keeping that clean.

Sexual Pleasure in this world is simply of this world. Highly overrated and over advertised by satan to keep sins in the face of weak Souls.

Listen you ever really read Mark 4: 1-20? Read it a few times and clearly understand this chapter. Listen to Christ speak here.

I could tell you this from experienece. While a Gay lifestyle isn’t my Cross, one of Sexual conquest outside the laws of God was for years. You simply come to understand as you mature physically and mentally its of this world. The Word of God remains regardless what any of us think or do. When we act off our own micky mouse feelings of inadaquacy, the Word of God still stands and we stand in direct opposition. Always, always clearly understand this.

God Bless, GT

That is a good post and a good reminder that we are all sinners who need the grace of God each day ."Nay ,but for the grace of God go I"as St Phillip Neri said to his friend who was being “upright” and looking down of a person going to his death for a crime.

The Holy Father at the Nationals Stadium 17th.April 2008, said this–
“The challenges confronting us require a comprehensive and sound instruction of the faith.But they also call for cultivating a mindset,an intellectual “culture” which is genuinely Catholic,confident in the harmony of faith and reason, and prepared to bring the richness of faith’s vision to bear on the **urgent issues which affect the future of American society”**He also said on the same visit to the States "which fit in well with your good advise—
“Dear friends,the example of the saints invites us,then,to consider four essential aspects of the treasure of our faith;Personal Prayer and silence,liturgical prayer,charity in action and vocations”

 

[Charlemagne_II]

PassingThru

By the way, it is usually people who are hung up and vilifying homosexuals that have a higher chance of covering for an internal conflict. Please keep talking about you just cant bear to think about gay sex. You seem to mention it quite a bit.

Presumably gay people who want to marry also want to have sex. How do you separate the two? Isn’t that what this thread is about?

If you want to talk about gay marriage without talking about gay sex, I think you need to start another thread. This entire thread has been not only about gay marriage, but also gay sex.

Could you imagine trying to justify heterosexual marriage without talking about heterosexual sex?

 

[CradleCath]

This conclusion is only valid if you ignore the fact that pleasure can be the intent of sexual activity, and in such instances, assuming pleasure is achieved, that becomes the ‘proper end of the sexual function’.

No. Man/woman cannot set the proper end of anything.
Eating can bring pleasure, but the pleasure is not the “**proper **end”, nutrition & sustaining life is the proper end.
IOW. binging on food for pleasure alone, then purging to binge again was quite common in the Roman Empire. That does NOT make it “Natural”, nor is it the proper end for eating.

And how about breathing & it’s proper end. We can smoke tobacco, drugs, etc. & that may bring us pleasure, but the proper purpose of our lungs is to breathe air to sustain life. I am a smoker, I have quit 5 TIMES, for extended periods of time… & gone back to it each time. That is not the purpose for my lungs & will eventually ruin my health. I believe that smoking is a sin, since my body is the temple of the Holy Spirit & I’m putting poison into it. The Church doesn’t call smoking a sin, but based on the proper use of the body given to me by God, I can KNOW that it is wrong. Some of us are just not willing to call things & habits that are against Natural Law, good things. Some of us are willing to acknowledge our sin & keep trying.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

God encourages us to increase and multiply. That is why he gave us sexual organs. And he gave them to us with the side benefit of the pleasure they provide. They were not given to us exclusively for pleasure. That would be the view of the homosexual person. I have yet to hear a homosexual explain how pleasure is derived from anal sex. Nor have I yet to hear a homosexual explain why homosexual sex is natural. All I hear is that homosexuals want it. That is a pathology that merits looking into.

When I was a younger man I asked a homosexual how he knew how to identify another homosexual. This man said that it was generally pretty easy just by detecting typical homosexual mannerisms. However, if he was not certain, he would ask the person he was interested in if he could meet his mother. That was supposed to speak volumes to me. But I still haven’t digested them all.

Any takers?

 

[Elizabeth502]

^ Let me just reinforce and expand that a smidgin’. The homosexual *majority-view *of sex, marriage, and children is oriented in totality toward the cult of self and cult of pleasure. In terms of the latter, it is not terribly different from pagan societies which made personal satisfaction into a cult. In fact, I would argue that there are some indigenous peoples today in various continents who are more spiritually/morally advanced than modern homosexual activists are, who by comparison have devolved.

-Sex without procreation is not problematic when pleasure is the end of sex.
-Biological complementarity is not problematic when pleasure is the orientation.
-A complete parental experience for an innocent child is not problematic when you give not two figs for a child because parenthood is motivated by your pleasure (and social standing). (It’s fun to Play House.) Your pleasure as an individual and a couple always come before the needs of any child, who will just have to cope with only “fathers” or only “mothers.” Pleasure, after all, is connected to the present. Children can deal later with the huge holes in their lives of being either motherless or fatherless. Their ultimate emotional health is subordinate to your pleasure-seeking.

-There’s abundant amorality and immorality in the rest of the country (non-homosexuals), so “I get mine,” too.

-Since this is about “me,” I should be able to have the same social standing as anyone with a mainstream lifestyle. Therefore I shall seek institutionalizing my lifestyle to force equal moral (really, equally immoral) standing.

 

[John21652]

This conclusion is only valid if you ignore the fact that pleasure can be the intent of sexual activity, and in such instances, assuming pleasure is achieved, that becomes the ‘proper end of the sexual function’.

No doubt about you Seeker. You sure are a selective thinker.

Let’s see now, why is ‘pleasure’ seemingly built into certain human activities and not into others? Why is eating food ‘pleasurable’ and satisfying? Is simply putting food into one’s stomach the proper end of satiating the feelings of hunger and enjoying the taste of food? Hunger is not a pleasurable sensation, yet the assuaging of that feeling is pleasurable. Have you ever considered that the proper end of the process of getting the food and satisfying the hunger is human survival? Their are certain feelings, both good and bad, that signal to the human organism that food is good so that the organism will feed itself. The feelings associated with pleasure and pain are designed to keep the human organism safe, secure and functioning. Put your hand over a burning candle and it hurts. The signal is ‘don’t do it again, because it is harmful to your person’. Take a cold bath on a very hot day and it feels good. The signal is to kep the human body’s temperature within a certain range. That is why animals go lie down under a tree on a hot day. So it is with sex. Pleasure is built in to the process so the human organism will go forth and breed. That is the proper end of sex. That is why humans have pleasure sensations built into the sexual process. That is why the human race has been so prolific,

Yet you, Seeker, have taken one step back in the process and are focusing on the pleasure only. You have forgotten what it is for and why it is there. Unfortunately, in the process you have even managed to do a makeover on the ‘pleasure’ thing. Normally, a man would go ‘ouch’ if another man tried to shove his ‘pleasure organ’ into another man’s backside. You, however, have become so tangled up in the attempt at redefining pleasure that you even seek to explain awy an unnatural act as having the concept of pleasure attached to it!! Maybe the man doing the inserting might fine a certain ‘pleasure’ in the act, but I can’t see how the one on the receiving end can gain any pleasure from it!!

Put it this way. Vaginas are built to give women pleasurable sensations when they are used as part of the human breeding process. Bum holes were not designed to give any such feelings of pleasure. See, Seeker, you have it all back to front and you have it back to front because your focus is on hedonistic pursuits. You are selling yourself down the gurgler because you have ‘forgotten’ how it is all supposed to work. You have ‘forgotten’ the proper ends of things. Most certainly you have forgotten the ‘proper end of the sexual function’. Pretty sad, eh!

 

[PassingThru]

No doubt about you Seeker. You sure are a selective thinker.

Let’s see now, why is ‘pleasure’ seemingly built into certain human activities and not into others? Why is eating food ‘pleasurable’ and satisfying? Is simply putting food into one’s stomach the proper end of satiating the feelings of hunger and enjoying the taste of food? Hunger is not a pleasurable sensation, yet the assuaging of that feeling is pleasurable. Have you ever considered that the proper end of the process of getting the food and satisfying the hunger is human survival? Their are certain feelings, both good and bad, that signal to the human organism that food is good so that the organism will feed itself. The feelings associated with pleasure and pain are designed to keep the human organism safe, secure and functioning. Put your hand over a burning candle and it hurts. The signal is ‘don’t do it again, because it is harmful to your person’. Take a cold bath on a very hot day and it feels good. The signal is to kep the human body’s temperature within a certain range. That is why animals go lie down under a tree on a hot day. So it is with sex. Pleasure is built in to the process so the human organism will go forth and breed. That is the proper end of sex. That is why humans have pleasure sensations built into the sexual process. That is why the human race has been so prolific,

Yet you, Seeker, have taken one step back in the process and are focusing on the pleasure only. You have forgotten what it is for and why it is there. Unfortunately, in the process you have even managed to do a makeover on the ‘pleasure’ thing. Normally, a man would go ‘ouch’ if another man tried to shove his ‘pleasure organ’ into another man’s backside. You, however, have become so tangled up in the attempt at redefining pleasure that you even seek to explain awy an unnatural act as having the concept of pleasure attached to it!! Maybe the man doing the inserting might fine a certain ‘pleasure’ in the act, but I can’t see how the one on the receiving end can gain any pleasure from it!!

Put it this way. Vaginas are built to give women pleasurable sensations when they are used as part of the human breeding process. Bum holes were not designed to give any such feelings of pleasure. See, Seeker, you have it all back to front and you have it back to front because your focus is on hedonistic pursuits. You are selling yourself down the gurgler because you have ‘forgotten’ how it is all supposed to work. You have ‘forgotten’ the proper ends of things. Most certainly you have forgotten the ‘proper end of the sexual function’. Pretty sad, eh!

I think all he was saying was that if pleasure was your goal, then homosexual sex can achieve that goal. Which is certainly true. I don’t he said anything about it being morally appropriate by your set of rules. Maybe I missed it.

And why in the world are you passing judgment on what others are to derive sexual pleasure from? It seems like a very foolish thing to delve into. Are you really trying to say that, since you do not see pleasure in an act, it therefor cannot be pleasurable? I am sure you see the folly in this thinking.

On that note, it seems the Catholic Church has signed off on oral sex as long as it is part of a “completed sex act”. Nothing natural, in any way, shape, or form about oral sex, yet many find it quite pleasurable, and it gets a Church thumbs up. How can this be?

You seem to have a strange issue with anal sex, which is odd, because it is a theme on these threads. Lots of issues with the sex. And “bums”. Its all very concerning.

Oh, and medically, it think there are lots of stimulating nerves in the “bum” as you say. I know that is how they get sperm to help in breeding for endangered animals and such. So, medically, I think you are incorrect on your whole “bum” theory. Have to get some (name removed by moderator)ut from a more experienced witness on that one, however.

I am not too concerned with how you feel on the gay marriage issue. I just find it an error in judgement to use your personal opinion on what would and would not pleasure you to decide on the morality, so to speak, of anothers sex act. Odd indeed.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

Why does this matter? Because anal sex is far more dangerous than oral sex. According to data released earlier this year by the Centers for Disease Control, the probability of HIV acquisition by the receptive partner in unprotected oral sex with an HIV carrier is one per 10,000 acts. In vaginal sex, it’s 10 per 10,000 acts. In anal sex, it’s 50 per 10,000 acts. Do the math. Oral sex is 10 times safer than vaginal sex. Anal sex is five times more dangerous than vaginal sex and 50 times more dangerous than oral sex. Presumably, oral sex is far more frequent than anal sex. But are you confident it’s 50 times more frequent?

A CDC fact sheet explains the risks of anal sex. First, “the lining of the rectum is thin and may allow the [HIV] virus to enter the body.” Second, “condoms are more likely to break during anal sex than during vaginal sex.” These risks don’t just apply to HIV. According to the new survey report, the risk of transmission of other sexually transmitted diseases is likewise “higher for anal than for oral sex,” and the risk “from oral sex is also believed to be lower than for vaginal intercourse.”

Still think the penis was made for anal sex?

Still think the risk to your health is outweighed by the pleasure of anal orgasm?

 

[Charlemagne_II]

PassingThru

On that note, it seems the Catholic Church has signed off on oral sex as long as it is part of a “completed sex act”. Nothing natural, in any way, shape, or form about oral sex, yet many find it quite pleasurable, and it gets a Church thumbs up. How can this be?

Please cite your source. Thank you.