Gay rights activists protest N. California mall

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aprilfloyd said:
I should write a paper on sexual repression and Catholicism. Why do you bring , bestiality, pederasty into the conversation Cor Cordis. I am starting to worry about you. But seriously, when discussing homosexuality why do Catholics resort to discussing, murder, bestiality, lying, pederasty etc,. etc. Why is this so prevalent on this forum? I don’t think I have seen anyone mention that maybe two homosexuals could be in love and express it sexually, which apparently is quite common in the heterosexual world.
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You didn’t actually answer the question.

You simply questioned the question.
 
Cor_Cordis said:
My point was that their is a strong correlation between homosexuality and narcissism.

Why do they have self esteem issues?
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I assume that you mean homosexuals, and not narcissists with that question. I can tell you that gay teens are at some multiples of the risk factor for suicide as straight teens. I can also tell you that families who are emotionally supportive of their gay children, tend to not fall into this suicide catastrophe. Kids who are in families where they feel that they have nowhere to turn for emotional support are at very high risk. I can also tell you that my gay biological father was dead by the age of 41 from alcoholism. I believe that he was so troubled by the internal dissonance of being gay and Catholic, that he had to numb his feeling of guilt and remorse by addiction.

I am sure that there are many scenarios. But to you get the picture?

Oh, and my dad was a very successful guy. He was a highly functioning addict. For example, he introduced me personally to a sitting president of the US. The last few years of his life were utter disaster, as he crashed and burned. I also suspect that his incredible personal and financial success were driven by an addictive drive to workaholism to compensate for his perceptions of personal internal moral failure over his sexuality.
 
Let’s try this again aprilfloyd, now that you’ve gotten your smokescreen of shocked indignant disdain out of the way.

So if society decides that incest is no longer an immoral or sinful thing, then you’re okay with that. Right?

How about pederasty?

How about bestiality?

How about co-ed bathrooms and showers in public schools?
 
Cor_Cordis said:
Let’s try this again aprilfloyd, now that you’ve gotten your smokescreen of shocked indignant disdain out of the way.

So if society decides that incest is no longer an immoral or sinful thing, then you’re okay with that. Right?

How about pederasty?

How about bestiality?

How about co-ed bathrooms and showers in public schools?
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Hold on there. I went to a restaurant about six months ago in Germany that had a co-ed bathroom.

I still prefer a gang shower in a locker room, because everyone takes less time when they have less privacy. I am not a big fan of these fancy facilities with private showers for everyone, because I end up waiting 15 minutes for a shower to become available during busy times.

So, morally I see nothing wrong with co-ed facilities. As a practical matter, I don’t like the privacy issues that they introduce, which reduces efficiency when I have things to do.
 
epan said:
Hold on there. I went to a restaurant about six months ago in Germany that had a co-ed bathroom.

I still prefer a gang shower in a locker room, because everyone takes less time when they have less privacy. I am not a big fan of these fancy facilities with private showers for everyone, because I end up waiting 15 minutes for a shower to become available during busy times.

So, morally I see nothing wrong with co-ed facilities. As a practical matter, I don’t like the privacy issues that they introduce, which reduces efficiency when I have things to do.
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What?

You have no problem with boys and girls sharing bathrooms and showers in our public schools?

Are you insane?
 
epan said:
Hold on there. I went to a restaurant about six months ago in Germany that had a co-ed bathroom.

I still prefer a gang shower in a locker room, because everyone takes less time when they have less privacy. I am not a big fan of these fancy facilities with private showers for everyone, because I end up waiting 15 minutes for a shower to become available during busy times.

So, morally I see nothing wrong with co-ed facilities. As a practical matter, I don’t like the privacy issues that they introduce, which reduces efficiency when I have things to do.
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And I repeat:

What?

You have no problem with boys and girls sharing bathrooms and showers in our public schools?

Are you insane?
 
Lochias said:
Because one has an observable function, and the other does not. Homosexual acts are more prone to inflict damage and disease than heterosexual acts, as well; there’s a reason doctors in California used to reference a series of symptoms called “Gay bowel syndrome.”

Morality predates the Church. It is an issue for all of humanity.

So recourse to observable knowledge, logic, history, and study of other cultures means nothing to you? The good created by following the Catholic Church’s moral codes and dictums means nothing to you? Millions of people all over the world disagree with you.

No, because heterosexual sex is not innately sinful. You cannot compare homosexual sex and heterosexual sex as equal. They are not, and they never will be, physically, mentally or spiritually.

To say anything else is to willfully embrace a lie.

First of all, you are wrong. There is proof that homosexual acts ARE a sin. Study the Catholic Church’s teachings in order to learn why. Secondly, you cannot first tell me that what the Church teaches is an opinion, and THEN also tell me that what the Church teaches matters.

Wrong again. God decides what is a sin. You need to re-learn your theology.

That does not invalidate the Church’s teachings on how homosexual acts are sinful.

Maybe, maybe not. When homosexual activists demand that I see their actions as right and wholesome, and lobby to ensure that my future children will be taught, against my will, that homosexual sex is ok, they have made it my business.

Their mistake.
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‘My Theology’ - that is funny 🙂 My Theology is very thin as there are just too many Gods to study so I suppose that should be theologies.

I appreciate that the God you believe decides what is a sin, and that you go along with that. Of course, they are opinion, what else can they be there is no proof of God existence. What the church teaches matters as with any large organisation it has influence over it’s followers. Why do you think there is a lot of press coverage? It is the numbers involved, whilst over 80% of the worlds population is non-catholic, the ‘catholic’ population is substantial. That make it a phenomena worthy of study.

‘willfully embrace a lie’ in reference to homosexuality, just seems like you are being obtuse. Why?
 
aprilfloyd said:
I should write a paper on sexual repression and Catholicism. Why do you bring , bestiality, pederasty into the conversation Cor Cordis. I am starting to worry about you. But seriously, when discussing homosexuality why do Catholics resort to discussing, murder, bestiality, lying, pederasty etc,. etc. Why is this so prevalent on this forum? I don’t think I have seen anyone mention that maybe two homosexuals could be in love and express it sexually, which apparently is quite common in the heterosexual world.
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I’ll take a stab at that.

I see two issues. One of them is the slippery slope argument. And it is a valid one. For example, you can trace the elimination of legal gender distinction in marriage over the past 100 years or so. Or you can go back further to the abolition, and trace the civil right to enter the contract of marriage from the end of slavery onward. As you progress on the historic path, you see that while at one time, there were very clear legally defined gender obligations - a clear distinction (for example a husband could sue for divorce if his wife would not relocate with him when he decided the matter, though the converse was not true until quite recently). Today, there are no legal gender definition of duties in a civil marriage contract. Hence, it is an equal rights violation to discriminate based on gender as to who may get married. This is a clear example of the slippery slope. While some would call it a slide into moral depravity, others would call it progress. It depends on your perspective. So that is the first issue, and why the slippery slope is so important. I see this as a strength of Catholicism because it does recognize the historic imperative.

There is another issue with I perceive, and I hope that I won’t get beat up over this. My perception of Catholics is that there is a skewed moral calculus as to the gravity of sin. For example, masturbation is a grave matter. So is adultery. So is child abuse. It all gets rolled up as one ball of yarn, illicit sex. So, my opinion, is that it becomes more difficult to distinguish the gravity of offenses, when everything is such an important matter, and pretty much equal. A mortal sin is a mortal sin, whether it means abusing a child or masturbating and falling asleep. In the calculus of redemption and forgiveness, it is all the same. I believe that this is part of what has impeded the Church in cleaning up some of the issues which hit the news. There appears to me to be a failure in ability to weigh the relative moral weight of sinful behavior, because it is all essentially all equal. So, when you mention gay sex, then it is equated with any other sexual offense in the catalog. I see this as a weakness in Catholicism, for its inability sometimes to distinguish the grey areas, and also it impedes social progress in some areas.

Therefore, if you allow gay marriage, then the next step is bestiality, by both arguments. It is one more slide down the slippery slope on the one hand. The two behaviors are morally equivalent on the other.
 
Cor_Cordis said:
2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."138 “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."139

It is allowed as part of the act of love within marriage.
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What about sex before marriage was invented?
 
aprilfloyd said:
What about sex before marriage was invented?
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I’m sorry. I never saw your answer to my questions:

So if society decides that incest is no longer an immoral or sinful thing, then you’re okay with that. Right?

How about pederasty?

How about bestiality?

How about co-ed bathrooms and showers in public schools?
 
Sorry I keep editing my posts. My poor little notebook is almost dead, and keys stick. I make a lot of typos.
 
Cor_Cordis said:
Let’s try this again aprilfloyd, now that you’ve gotten your smokescreen of shocked indignant disdain out of the way.

So if society decides that incest is no longer an immoral or sinful thing, then you’re okay with that. Right?

How about pederasty?

How about bestiality?

How about co-ed bathrooms and showers in public schools?
Click to expand...
Why would you think that? How do you get from homosexuality to incest? Do you really think that homosexuality is the thin end of the wedge that contains incest? Or are you just trying to be provocative. I am shocked CC - Are you going to turn on homosexuality next and say that leads murder?
 
aprilfloyd said:
Why would you think that? How do you get from homosexuality to incest? Do you really think that homosexuality is the thin end of the wedge that contains incest? Or are you just trying to be provocative. I am shocked CC - Are you going to turn on homosexuality next and say that leads murder?
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April. Read my post number #349, and see if that makes sense to you.
 
epan said:
I’ll take a stab at that.

I see two issues. One of them is the slippery slope argument. And it is a valid one. For example, you can trace the elimination of legal gender distinction in marriage over the past 100 years or so. Or you can go back further to the abolition, and trace the civil right to enter the contract of marriage from the end of slavery onward. As you progress on the historic path, you see that while at one time, there were very clear legally defined gender obligations - a clear distinction (for example a husband could sue for divorce if his wife would not relocate with him when he decided the matter, though the converse was not true until quite recently). Today, there are no legal gender definition of duties in a civil marriage contract. Hence, it is an equal rights violation to discriminate based on gender as to who may get married. This is a clear example of the slippery slope. While some would call it a slide into moral depravity, others would call it progress. It depends on your perspective. So that is the first issue, and why the slippery slope is so important. I see this as a strength of Catholicism because it does recognize the historic imperative.

There is another issue with I perceive, and I hope that I won’t get beat up over this. My perception of Catholics is that there is a skewed moral calculus as to the gravity of sin. For example, masturbation is a grave matter. So is adultery. So is child abuse. It all gets rolled up as one ball of yarn, illicit sex. So, my opinion, is that it becomes more difficult to distinguish the gravity of offenses, when everything is such an important matter, and pretty much equal. A mortal sin is a mortal sin, whether it means abusing a child or masturbating and falling asleep. In the calculus of redemption and forgiveness, it is all the same. I believe that this is part of what has impeded the Church in cleaning up some of the issues which hit the news. There appears to me to be a failure in ability to weigh the relative moral weight of sinful behavior, because it is all essentially equal. So, when you mention gay sex, then it is equated with any other sexual offense in the catalog. I see this as a weakness in Catholicism, for its inability sometimes to distinguish the grey areas, and also it impedes social progress in some areas.

Therefore, if you allow gay marriage, then the next step is bestiality, by both arguments. It is one more slide down the slippery slope on the one hand. The two behaviors are morally equivalent on the other.
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I enjoyed your post. It does seem that they have painted themselves in to a moral corner - it now makes sense as to why they would leap from homosexuality to bestiality, when a rational, or should I say ‘non-catholic’ mind would not do that. Good post. 🙂
 
aprilfloyd said:
Why would you think that? How do you get from homosexuality to incest? Do you really think that homosexuality is the thin end of the wedge that contains incest? Or are you just trying to be provocative. I am shocked CC - Are you going to turn on homosexuality next and say that leads murder?
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And again with the smokescreen of shocked indignant disdain.:rolleyes:

Well now that your little “I’m 'shocked! SHOCKED I TELL YOU!” :crying: self-righteous outrageous-outrage is out of the way (for the second time) maybe you can finally riddle me these questions:

So if society decides that incest is no longer an immoral or sinful thing, then you’re okay with that. Right?

How about pederasty?

How about bestiality?

How about co-ed bathrooms and showers in public schools?
 
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