Gay rights activists protest N. California mall

[bellasbane]

Who is attacking people here?

Instead of making these false claims why not answer the arguments?

Instead of focusing on perceived tone why not answer the arguments?

Instead of charging lack of charity why not answer the arguments?

If you read all my posts, you will see that I have done all of those things.

Be nice.

 

[Cor_Cordis]

Masturbation is disordered because it does not add to the Unity between a husband and wife. It is an inherently selfish act. Nobody but the person doing it “gets” anything out of it.

Clearly this disturbs you for some reason.

However, there are reams of threads on this topic. You really should consult one of them.

I’m the one who is disturbed about this?

Really?

You’re the one who seems to be obsessed about it in here.

You can’t let it go.

Me doth thinks the lady protests too much!

see what I did there bella? I used your tactics against you. please forgive me

I’m certainly open to correction on this, but as I read the Catechism I don’t see a prohibition against self stimulation combined with the mutual act of marital love.

2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."138 “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."139

So tell me bella: can a loving couple engage in both self-stimulation AND mutual love making as a more complete and full act of mutual love as long as it is towards the same ultimate goal of reproductive intercourse?

I see nothing in the Catechism that prohibits this.

But I’m certainly open to well founded rational fraternal correction on this matter.

 

[fix]

If you read all my posts, you will see that I have done all of those things.

Be nice.

You brought up throwing stones.

I am being nice.

 

[Cor_Cordis]

Masturbation is disordered because it does not add to the Unity between a husband and wife. It is an inherently selfish act. Nobody but the person doing it “gets” anything out of it.

Uhm… how can an action within the realm of mutual love making (even self stimulation) NOT add to the overall mutual act of love?

Does one self-stimulate in a vacuum during the mutual act of love?

I don’t mean to be too graphic in here. I’m trying to keep this as non-explicit as possible.

 

[bellasbane]

I’m the one who is disturbed about this?

Really?

You’re the one who seems to be obsessed about it in here.

Accusing a liberal of being obsessed about sins of a sexual nature. Now you finally have said something really funny!

You can’t let it go.

Because you are wrong and your error may confuse other Catholics.

Me doth thinks the lady protests too much!

see what I did there bella? I used your tactics against you. please forgive me

Good. You read my posts.

I’m certainly open to correction on this, but as I read the Catechism I don’t see a prohibition against self stimulation combined with the mutual act of marital love.

So tell me bella: can a loving couple engage in both self-stimulation AND mutual love making as a more complete and full act of mutual love as long as it is towards the same ultimate goal of reproductive intercourse?

I see nothing in the Catechism that prohibits this.

But I’m certainly open to well founded rational fraternal correction on this matter.

I have already given you my advice. This topic has been covered extensively on other threads and I recommend you consult one of these. You can easily find them by using the Search function.

 

[Tigg]

I am curious. Who do you think this Christ is that you say you love so much? .

He is love personified, and by His very nature, will never capitulate to anything that damages His creation. I

You can kill sin with kindness

I will assume you are not equating kindness with compromise.

 

[bellasbane]

I am being nice.

Great!

 

[Tigg]

People were not singled out for such criticisms. But rather their ACTIONS were singled out as such.

And of course the “concern” post is followed by the predictable old canard of: “Christians should never judge anything and should tolerate everything!” fallacy.

Such is the tactics in an age when aggressive same-sex advocates are relentlessly perusing unprecedented and unconstitutional means to bludgeon all the moral precepts of observable human design with a legislative sledgehammer, in a brown-shirted attempt to stifle and destroy the religious liberties of all traditional Christianity in our society.

:blackeye:

I’m sure glad you’re on our side!

 

[Cor_Cordis]

Accusing a liberal of being obsessed about sins of a sexual nature. Now you finally have said something really funny! .

Yes, it is quite funny that you’re incapable of recognizing the obtuseness of your moral hypocrisy. I quite agree.:tiphat:

And as a former liberal, I can assure you: progessivism is a mental dysfunction.

I have already given you my advice. This topic has been covered extensively on other threads and I recommend you consult one of these. You can easily find them by using the Search function.

Why should I do research in order to substantiate your misunderstanding of a Catholic moral precept?

Feel free to advance your argument on your own merits.

 

[bellasbane]

He is love personified, and by His very nature, will never capitulate to anything that damages His creation.

You can kill sin with kindness.

Nope, and I don’t equate tolerance with moral relativism either - just in case you were wondering.

Kindness is a dangerous thing. It draws people in and gets them to trust you. Have you ever been to a Planned Parenthood clinic? Not as a protester, but just to see what it is like? They are very kind to women at those clinics… It’s scary.

 

[Cor_Cordis]

Nope, and I don’t equate tolerance with moral relativism either - just in case you were wondering.

Well of course you don’t.

“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” - G.K.Chesterton

 

[Cor_Cordis]

:blackeye:

I’m sure glad you’re on our side!

All I want is to keep returning to God’s side, in all my sloppy brokenness.

“Depart from me, Oh Lord; for I am a sinful man.”

 

[bellasbane]

Yes, it is quite funny that you’re incapable of recognizing the obtuseness of your moral hypocrisy. I quite agree.:tiphat:

And as a former liberal, I can assure you: progessivism is a mental dysfunction.

Why should I do research in order to substantiate your misunderstanding of a Catholic moral precept?

Feel free to advance your argument on your own merits.

Have you noticed your glaring lack of supporters on this one?

Please take my advice and read through some of the other threads on this topic. What harm can it do if you are correct? If you find something that supports your view, let me know.

 

[bellasbane]

Well of course you don’t.

“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” - G.K.Chesterton

As a female with convictions I really can’t comment on what this means for men.

 

[Cor_Cordis]

Have you noticed your glaring lack of supporters on this one?

No.

But I have noticed the glaring lack of rational well-defined correction on this matter.

I was hopping you would pick up the moral gauntlet and lead me down the right path.

But alas- why aren’t you being “tolerant” of my position on this one?

Please take my advice and read through some of the other threads on this topic. What harm can it do if you are correct? If you find something that supports your view, let me know.

I actually have read through them.

If there is a reasoned and rational correction on my interpretation, then why haven’t you forwarded it to me?

 

[Cor_Cordis]

“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” - G.K.Chesterton

As a female with convictions I really can’t comment on what this means for men.

I didn’t know the two genders followed different moral virtues and convictions.

So “truth” is relevant to gender eh?

But I thought you didn’t equate tolerance with moral relativism?

 

[90Domer]

Well yes, of course. If about 95% + of the population is heterosexual, then everyone who has kids will “tend to produce heterosexual offspring.”

No matter how hard heterosexual parent try to raise straight kids, about 4-5% will turn out gay. No matter how hard gay parents try to raise gay kids, about 95-96% will turn out straight. That is one of the great mysteries of figuring out human sexual orientation. It is hard to figure out exact numbers, but it appears that the percentage of gay people is relatively fixed in society over time and geography and social structure and culture and religious beliefs. Nobody really knows why that is.

And honestly, marrying a spouse who has a SSA brother, my husband and I have tried to figure out why this brother turned out with SSA. I can say that the gender roles in their family were ill-defined. I noticed that the first time I met the family. The mom was very masculine and the dad was very effeminate. It was very unsettling. The mom had a very strong and abrasive personality, was into sports (before women were routinely into them–she is 75) and enjoyed more typically masculine subjects. The dad enjoyed music, drama and was lousy at sports. The two siblings get nauseated at the thought of the way SSA males “have sex.” The running theory of why this sibling is SSA was due to being raised predominantly by a maternal grandmother who was ill-tempered, sharp-tongued and not nurturing (cantankerous was the word used on her).

If nothing else, this subject has been an interesting thought experiment.

 

[iamrefreshed]

Kindness is a dangerous thing. It draws people in and gets them to trust you. Have you ever been to a Planned Parenthood clinic? Not as a protester, but just to see what it is like? They are very kind to women at those clinics… It’s scary.

Kind? Tell that to the aborted.

 

[90Domer]

I will admit that because of my personal childhood history, I once held considerable hatred for the Catholic Church. I have come to terms with that, and gotten past it.

I will say that I am rather surprised by the level of animosity toward the Church, in general, which is expressed in any blog or comment section of any article on any news web site which runs a piece about anything happening in the Catholic Church. I am also quite surprised sometimes by the thinly veiled hatred which I read on religious sites, it is hatred rationalized by religious dogma.

There is apparently a lot of anger and fear on all sides.

I can tell you that there is tremendous and universal disgust at the inability to handle the child abuse scandal, even after decades. I spoke to my mom recently. She is an Episcopalian, and really doesn’t give a hoot what happens in the Catholic Church. She never talks about the Church, to my recollection. But in our conversation, she did mention her utter disgust that Cardinal Mahoney was attending the conclave and voting for the next pope. She lives in Los Angeles. That surprised me. But if my mom mentions it, then I know that this is on the mind of many ordinary people. This is not the type of thing that she would normally mention, and she tends to be a very charitable person. It is probably easy to forget just how deep and pernicious this ongoing scandal is.

Why can’t the Catholic Church clean up its own house, even after decades and an entire papacy? It has the absolute authority to do so, but seems to be paralysed in some sort of turpitude. Nobody seems to be able to answer that question.

I strongly feel that Pope Francis has a tremendous opportunity right now. If he takes decisive and public action, then he will regain much good will and credibility for the Church throughout the world. I do pray for him. I don’t have an inkling of what he faces, but I hope that he makes the best decisions, and takes decisive action, and that he does so quickly.

I truly believe that only and until the RCC rids itself of SSA clergy, the sex abuse scandal will continue. And yes, I do think that SSA and the clergy sex abide scandal are related.

 

[iamrefreshed]

I truly believe that only and until the RCC rids itself of SSA clergy, the sex abuse scandal will continue. And yes, I do think that SSA and the clergy sex abide scandal are related.

100%

The Church never had a pedophile problem, She has a homosexual problem.