Gay rights activists protest N. California mall

[bellasbane]

No.

But I have noticed the glaring lack of rational well-defined correction on this matter.

I was hopping you would pick up the moral gauntlet and lead me down the right path.

But alas- why aren’t you being “tolerant” of my position on this one?

I actually have read through them.

If there is a reasoned and rational correction on my interpretation, then why haven’t you forwarded it to me?

I understand and respect your position, but that doesn’t mean I think your interpretation of that passage in the Catechism is correct. The reason I gave was perfectly rational and well-defined - you just don’t like it.

I’m glad you took my advice to read through the threads on this topic. However, if you are married and a confirmed Catholic, then you are old enough to follow the right path without having to be lead down it by me.

 

[bellasbane]

“Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.” - G.K.Chesterton

As a female with convictions I really can’t comment on what this means for men.

I didn’t know the two genders followed different moral virtues and convictions.

So “truth” is relevant to gender eh?

But I thought you didn’t equate tolerance with moral relativism?

:clapping: Now there’s a strawman if I every saw one!

 

[Cor_Cordis]

:clapping: Now there’s a strawman if I every saw one!

Correction: Straw-woman!

 

[bellasbane]

Correction: Straw-woman!

Sorry - didn’t realize you were female.

 

[Cor_Cordis]

I understand and respect your position, but that doesn’t mean I think your interpretation of that passage in the Catechism is correct. The reason I gave was perfectly rational and well-defined - you just don’t like it.

I’m glad you took my advice to read through the threads on this topic. However, if you are married and a confirmed Catholic, then you are old enough to follow the right path without having to be lead down it by me.

I’ve gone back over some of those threads, and followed some of the links, you may be right in the broader context about this.

But if you are, it’s not because of the specific points you were emphasizing (and failing to emphasize).

But all criticisms aside, I’m still very much open to your position, and leaning more towards it rather than away.

I humbly Thank You bella!

 

[Cor_Cordis]

Sorry - didn’t realize you were female.

According to the rationale of genderless equality of same-sex “marriage”

does it matter?

 

[bellasbane]

I’ve gone back over some of those threads, and followed some of the links, you may be right in the broader context about this.

But if you are, it’s not because of the specific points you were emphasizing (and failing to emphasize).

But all criticisms aside, I’m still very much open to your position, and leaning more towards it rather than away.

I humbly Thank You bella!

Ugh! You used Kindness - totally disarming.

Unfair! Unfair!

 

[Cor_Cordis]

Ugh! You used Kindness - totally disarming.

Unfair! Unfair!

The beauty of this wonderful Catholic Faith of ours is the painful joy through the humility of Truth. If only we surrender to it.

“We love truth when it enlightens us, but we hate truth when it accuses us” - St. Augustine

 

[Fergalmyfriend]

I am equally shocked at the UK government’s forcing gay marriage on a public who did not ask for it and considering it was not part of their mandate before the election. If you really want to see hate and a breeding ground for anti catholic rhetoric read UK newspaper articles which allow comments, many hate filled and disturbing responses are directed at our new Pope and the catholic clergy and catholic lay people in general. And for the record, I do not want my children taught that the homosexual act is normal which is exactly what this thread is all about, the act not the person, the sin not the sinner.

So you argue that the UK press breed hate for Catholics so you can then do the same to gay people? The UK tabloid press is your measure? They hate everyone at some point, come on you can’t be serious?

Exactly what is the ‘homosexual act’ you don’t want your children being taught is normal? The simple act of identifying as gay/lesbian? What? What are you calling the sin? I’d be interested to know.

I do understand why the majority of Catholics do not support SSM. I don’t agree but I understand & I would not support any religious group to be forced to support/allow it. But
that is 1 issue, another is blatant homophobia hidden behind ‘hate the sin, love the sinner’. How exactly are you loving the sinner when you dismiss a whole section of society, call them a cancer, shield your children from them, encourage others to be/do the same.YOU believe this is acceptable, YOU believe this is loving your neighbour? Yes this does shock me. Newspapers and government propoganda do not.

 

[Fergalmyfriend]

Respecting Human Dignity

The commission of the Church to preach the Good News to all people in every land points to the fundamental dignity possessed by each person as created by God. God has created every human person out of love and wishes to grant him or her eternal life in the communion of the Trinity. All people are created in the image and likeness of God and thus possess an innate human dignity that must be acknowledged and respected.

In keeping with this conviction, the Church teaches that persons with a homosexual inclination “must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity.” We recognize that these persons have been, and often continue to be, objects of scorn, hatred, and even violence in some sectors of our society. Sometimes this hatred is manifested clearly; other times, it is masked and gives rise to more disguised forms of hatred. “It is deplorable that homosexual persons have been and are the object of violent malice in speech or in action. Such treatment deserves condemnation from the Church’s pastors wherever it occurs.”

Those who would minister in the name of the Church must in no way contribute to such injustice. They should prayerfully examine their own hearts in order to discern any thoughts or feelings that might stand in need of purification. Those who minister are also called to growth in holiness. In fact, the work of spreading the Good News involves an ever-increasing love for those to whom one is ministering by calling them to the truth of Jesus Christ.

usccb.org/issues-and-acti…ation-2006.pdf

Well said. This was a response I fully expected to see.

 

[90Domer]

100%

The Church never had a pedophile problem, She has a homosexual problem.

Sorry, I meant to type abuse in my post…but yes, I do agree. The Church does have a huge problem with SSA clergy (one only needs to look at the Scottish cardinal to catch a glimpse) dating back to the 1930’s and 1940’s. The book Goodbye Good Men does a great job researching this topic.

And what most people choose to neglect is that much of the child sex abuse occurred on post-pubescent boys, which is not pedophilia. This falls in the realm of SSA interactions. It is the type of interactions that NAMBLA encourages.

Sadly, I think the Church is afraid to confront this head on. However, She is making progress. I applaud Cardinal Turkson for coming out and saying what needed to be said about the issue. And Pope Benedict was spot on that SSA and the priesthood are incompatible. Still there are dissenters, SSA apologists and SSA attracted clergy willing to admit those priests to the seminary. In the US, Benedict did a brilliant job of appointing orthodox bishops to open sees. I look forward to witnessing more of that in Pope Francis papacy.

 

[Elizabeth502]

In the US, Benedict did a brilliant job of appointing orthodox bishops to open sees. I look forward to witnessing more of that in Pope Francis papacy.

 

[Fergalmyfriend]

bellasbane;10489028:

That is not quite right. In the post you took issue with, Fergalmyfriend specifically

states her objection to how she perceives people on this thread talking about “gay and lesbian people”….

First of all, that is dishonest to the core in it’s misrepresentation:

People were not singled out for such criticisms. But rather their ACTIONS were singled out as such.

And of course the “concern” post is followed by the predictable old canard of: “Christians should never judge anything and should tolerate everything!” fallacy.

Such is the tactics in an age when aggressive same-sex advocates are relentlessly perusing unprecedented and unconstitutional means to bludgeon all the moral precepts of observable human design with a legislative sledgehammer, in a brown-shirted attempt to stifle and destroy the religious liberties of all traditional Christianity in our society.

It’s tantamount to repeatedly slapping an innocent victim by suddenly redefining his moral standards as “bigotry” and “hate” while demanding that he should laud honor respect and endless praise upon his dishonest assailant.

And so it goes in this age of madness where “good” is now “bad” and “moral” is now 'immoral" and “truth” is now a “hateful lie”.

May God help us all.

Dishonest to lie core? What? You need to explain exactly how I was being dishonest. I take great offence to this as I have many of your posts. I do not hate catholics, I have no agenda. I read a lot of hateful comments. That was my first post on such an issue and I truely was shocked at comments.

Sorry to be so predictable in my response. Belasbane in my opinion gave a great answer and totally understood my post. If the Bishops have spoke out in this way then surely that moves homosexuality away from the other usual subjects that get thrown in?

I am not an aggressor. Predictable or not, that is my belief.

 

[Tigg]

I do understand why the majority of Catholics do not support SSM. I don’t agree but I understand & I would not support any religious group to be forced to support/allow it. But
that is 1 issue, another is blatant homophobia hidden behind ‘hate the sin, love the sinner’. How exactly are you loving the sinner when you dismiss a whole section of society, call them a cancer, shield your children from them, encourage others to be/do the same.YOU believe this is acceptable, YOU believe this is loving your neighbour? Yes this does shock me. Newspapers and government propoganda do not.

So you see hypocrisy in the “hate the sin, love the sinner?”

How exactly are we loving our neighbor when we allow the debasement of marriage as ordained by the Creator between one man and one woman? How are we promoting the common good by doing so? How are we loving our neighbor in closing our eyes to the health risks – both physical and mental? How are we loving our neighbor in allowing gender-identity confusion? (And yes, it is well documented).

How are we loving our children when we allow mandatory indoctrination and the de-sensitization of sinful acts contrary to our moral code? (You see, we want our children to have eternal happiness.) How are we loving our children while confusing the truth of biological differences inherent to each sex – both male and female (the complementarity of each that is natural and necessary for a healthy society.) How are we loving our children when homosexual unions would mean fewer would be raised by both a married man and woman?

And finally, how are we loving God’s people by choosing to be silent on this issue which has the capacity for ending freedom of conscience and religious liberty?

 

[Elizabeth502]

Exactly what is the ‘homosexual act’ you don’t want your children being taught is normal? The simple act of identifying as gay/lesbian?

No. Not an act of identification. The physical act of sexual relations with one’s own sex.

that is 1 issue, another is blatant homophobia hidden behind ‘hate the sin, love the sinner’. How exactly are you loving the sinner when you dismiss a whole section of society, call them a cancer, shield your children from them, encourage others to be/do the same.YOU believe this is acceptable,

Posters on this thread have done that? Gee, I’ll have to do some word searches to confirm the hyperbole.

As to official documents of the Church, nothing resembling “dismissal” has been suggested.

But you’d have to actually read the documents to know that.

 

[Cor_Cordis]

Cor Cordis;10489256:

Dishonest to lie core? What? You need to explain exactly how I was being dishonest. I take great offence to this as I have many of your posts. I do not hate catholics, I have no agenda. I read a lot of hateful comments. That was my first post on such an issue and I truely was shocked at comments.

Sorry to be so predictable in my response. Belasbane in my opinion gave a great answer and totally understood my post. If the Bishops have spoke out in this way then surely that moves homosexuality away from the other usual subjects that get thrown in?

I am not an aggressor. Predictable or not, that is my belief.

Oh please, Ferg, you’ve used up you quota of indignant self-righteous outrageous-outrage for one day.

The “offensive” criticisms you cited were specifically made towards the ACTIONS of homosexuals and their dysfunctional and disordered inclinations, NOT necessarily towards the individuals themselves.

If you think you can shame the truth into silent submission by redefining the observable disordered state of homosexuality into a new moral righteous, then you are wrong.

Homosexuality IS an intrinsic evil AND an objectively disordered state that is contrary to our natural design. And openly stating that Truth is NOT hateful NOR is it a form of bigotry in and of itself…

Now, I’ll await your next shocked and astonished outrage that is sure to follow this clarifying response.

 

[Cor_Cordis]

I do understand why the majority of Catholics do not support SSM. I don’t agree but I understand & I would not support any religious group to be forced to support/allow it. But that is 1 issue, **another is blatant homophobia hidden behind ‘hate the sin, love the sinner’. *How exactly are you loving the sinner when you dismiss a whole section of society, call them a cancer, shield your children from them, encourage others to be/do the same.YOU believe this is acceptable, YOU believe this is loving your neighbour? Yes this does shock me. Newspapers and government propoganda do not.

Tell me Ferg: Are you bigoted towards pederasts?

Pedophiles?

Adulterers?

Do you hate any of them?

Oh and, I never called homosexuals “cancer”.

I used the analogy of “cancer” as an antithesis relative to the naturally ordered state of human health and design.

You’re either hopelessly slow with your reading comprehension skills, or you are blatantly dishonest in your misrepresentation of that example.

So which is it?

And please, keep the outrageous-outrage to a minimum.

 

[Cor_Cordis]

I do understand why the majority of Catholics do not support SSM. I don’t agree but I understand & I would not support any religious group to be forced to support/allow it.

Really?

Why wouldn’t you force any religious group to allow it and support it?

 

[Fergalmyfriend]

This predictable display of misrepresentation and misguided “moral” disdain, is a sure sign that the same-sex advocates in here have sensed that they have lost the intellectual high ground by the very nature of their unsupportable rationale that collapses in on it’s own flawed and self-defeating “logic”.

And this histrionic attempt at pathos is their ultimate attempt to stifle any and all dissent.

Throw all the words at it that you like. A simple ‘what would Jesus do?’ works for me every time and this isn’t it.

Did your massive intellectual brain skip over the part where I said that I was new, I consider myself a lay person? You making judgement on me, totally dismissing me, telling me I’m flawed and predictable does nothing other than make you feel superior. I am not a debater, nor do I profess to know all the answers.

Thank you so much for your warm welcome and helpful insight!

There was no hidden meaning in there, I can dumb it down even more. Why the hateful, disgusting comments? Jesus would not do this. I was not attacking anything or your belief.

Your comments go to prove that the wrong inference can be made on the most innocent of comments.

 

[bellasbane]

Dishonest to lie core? What? You need to explain exactly how I was being dishonest. I take great offence to this as I have many of your posts. I do not hate catholics, I have no agenda. I read a lot of hateful comments. That was my first post on such an issue and I truely was shocked at comments.

Sorry to be so predictable in my response. Belasbane in my opinion gave a great answer and totally understood my post. If the Bishops have spoke out in this way then surely that moves homosexuality away from the other usual subjects that get thrown in?

I am not an aggressor. Predictable or not, that is my belief.

Homosexuality is a complicated issue for Catholics. All the attention over SSM has only made it worse. Some people feel like we are being called to a crusade against an enemy, but then are being told not to strike at the enemy’s army. How do you crusade against a changing social norm? It’s so easy to slip up and start attacking people.

Then there is a certain amount of defensiveness and “group-think” that starts building up. Because if the world is not with us - it must be against us. After all, isn’t that what Jesus said? It’s not an irrational view, but it does lead people to make all sorts of false assumptions whenever they are challenged.

Tolerance is needed on all sides. God doesn’t love us because we are good.

Catholic moral teaching is actually very compassionate and fair, but not wishy-washy:

Furthermore, it is not only sexual inclinations that can be disordered within a human person. Other inclinations can likewise be disordered, such as those that lead to envy, malice, or greed. We are all damaged by the effects of sin, which causes desires to become disordered. Simply possessing such inclinations does not constitute a sin, at least to the extent that they are beyond one’s control. Acting on such inclinations, however, is always wrong.

usccb.org/issues-and-action/human-life-and-dignity/homosexuality/upload/minstry-persons-homosexual-inclination-2006.pdf

That’s from the same document by the Bishops that I referenced before. I learned about it because there was a ruckus here in Boston over a mass for gay parishioners that was scheduled for Gay Pride month. The mass got cancelled, but the hierarchy didn’t leave it at that. This editorial was published in The Pilot - the official newspaper of the Archdiocese of Boston: A teachable moment

I hope you stick around here at CAF!