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1990Domer
Guest
True, but I can count on more hands and toes in my family alone that had 1 sex partner. The includes me, parents, aunts, uncles, cousins and countless Aulumni friends.Thousands of Gen Y and their kids. And yes, I pass my message there too. It is a world wide problem that I hope God will relieve me of my earthly chains. I talk about more of this at live Church functions.
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1990Domer
Guest
I am as strict and devout a follower of Christ in the areas of trying not to sin as the next guy, I am a sinner but I am trying with the fullness of my heart not to sin-- I understand the benefits that come from this struggle. I cannot understand why we try to project our beliefs onto others who don’t hold the same beliefs. I see the supreme court decision to allow gay marriage as a tremendous victory for human dignity in a country that seems to have been founded on the idea of separation of Church and state. What am I missing?
All people have dignity and compassion…they are made in the imagined of God. But, you cannot legislate laws that have no historical proof of working. If you want to government to legislate dignity, there there is going to be a very long line of people who want that too. And you know what? It wouldn’t solve anything. Mean people will still be mean. Special Ed kids will still get beat up. Fat people will still be called lards. Dummies will still be called retarted.
Dignity and compassionate come from within and are spread out. If you have the true love of Chris, you see dignity in my friend who will die within the week. But he is made in God’s imagine. These qualities need to be taught and reinforced in families, and they need to receive the sacraments to strengthen them. So few understand that!
All people have dignity and compassion…they are made in the imagined of God. But, you cannot legislate laws that have no historical proof of working. If you want to government to legislate dignity, there there is going to be a very long line of people who want that too. And you know what? It wouldn’t solve anything. Mean people will still be mean. Special Ed kids will still get beat up. Fat people will still be called lards. Dummies will still be called retarted.
Dignity and compassionate come from within and are spread out. If you have the true love of Chris, you see dignity in my friend who will die within the week. But he is made in God’s imagine. These qualities need to be taught and reinforced in families, and they need to receive the sacraments to strengthen them. So few understand that!
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edwest2
Guest
We were lied to constantly about sex starting in the late 1960s. Our compassion was taken advantage of. I was there.I am as strict and devout a follower of Christ in the areas of trying not to sin as the next guy, I am a sinner but I am trying with the fullness of my heart not to sin-- I understand the benefits that come from this struggle. I cannot understand why we try to project our beliefs onto others who don’t hold the same beliefs. I see the supreme court decision to allow gay marriage as a tremendous victory for human dignity in a country that seems to have been founded on the idea of separation of Church and state. What am I missing?
All people have dignity and compassion…they are made in the imagined of God. But, you cannot legislate laws that have no historical proof of working. If you want to government to legislate dignity, there there is going to be a very long line of people who want that too. And you know what? It wouldn’t solve anything. Mean people will still be mean. Special Ed kids will still get beat up. Fat people will still be called lards. Dummies will still be called retarted.
Dignity and compassionate come from within and are spread out. If you have the true love of Chris, you see dignity in my friend who will die within the week. But he is made in God’s imagine. These qualities need to be taught and reinforced in families, and they need to receive the sacraments to strengthen them. So few understand that!
It is not a victory for human dignity. It is a victory for a sexual preference. With more preferences to follow.
Facts cannot be invented, but sometimes, they are.
nytimes.com/2010/01/29/us/29sfmetro.html?_r=0
amazon.com/Homosexuality-American-Psychiatry-Politics-Diagnosis/dp/0691028370
Ed
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Thorolfr
Guest
Gay people are lucky to have escaped the clutches of psychiatry which is hardly a real medical field. As it is, psychiatrists can’t explain the etiolgoy or cause of hardly a single so called “disorder” in the DSM and can’t even say for sure whether the things it describes count as real diseases or not. And every new edition of the DSM and decisions over what is left in it or left out or redefined involves politics.We were lied to constantly about sex starting in the late 1960s. Our compassion was taken advantage of. I was there.
It is not a victory for human dignity. It is a victory for a sexual preference. With more preferences to follow.
Facts cannot be invented, but sometimes, they are.
nytimes.com/2010/01/29/us/29sfmetro.html?_r=0
amazon.com/Homosexuality-American-Psychiatry-Politics-Diagnosis/dp/0691028370
Ed
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edwest2
Guest
In 1973, radical gay activists forced a vote. And similar lobbying was used again for Transgendered Persons in 2013.Gay people are lucky to have escaped the clutches of psychiatry which is hardly a real medical field. As it is, psychiatrists can’t explain the etiolgoy or cause of hardly a single so called “disorder” in the DSM and can’t even say for sure whether the things it describes count as real diseases or not. And every new edition of the DSM and decisions over what is left in it or left out or redefined involves politics.
ncregister.com/daily-news/psychiatrys-new-normal-transgendered-persons
No one can say that there are no people who need treatment by psychiatrists and sometimes, medication as well.
Ed
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1990Domer
Guest
You’re entitled to your opinion. But I think you are very wrong. And I am speaking for my son with invisible disabilities and the countless others out there.Gay people are lucky to have escaped the clutches of psychiatry which is hardly a real medical field. As it is, psychiatrists can’t explain the etiolgoy or cause of hardly a single so called “disorder” in the DSM and can’t even say for sure whether the things it describes count as real diseases or not. And every new edition of the DSM and decisions over what is left in it or left out or redefined involves politics.
BTW my SSA relative with bulemia could have use psychiatric care!
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Thorolfr
Guest
Almost all that psychiatrists do nowadays is to treat symptoms by giving medication. The days of talk therapy alone by psychiatrist are mostly gone.In 1973, radical gay activists forced a vote. And similar lobbying was used again for Transgendered Persons in 2013.
ncregister.com/daily-news/psychiatrys-new-normal-transgendered-persons
No one can say that there are no people who need treatment by psychiatrists and sometimes, medication as well.
Ed
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1990Domer
Guest
I agree. And my apologies, gender mutilation can hardly be seen as mainstream cognitive thinking.In 1973, radical gay activists forced a vote. And similar lobbying was used again for Transgendered Persons in 2013.
ncregister.com/daily-news/psychiatrys-new-normal-transgendered-persons
No one can say that there are no people who need treatment by psychiatrists and sometimes, medication as well.
Ed
M
mexolic
Guest
This reminds me of John the Baptist admonishing Herod. Herod’s situation did not involve same sex marriage, but still had John the Baptist admonish him. I don’t think John the Baptist would not have accepted words such as rights and dignity to back off of Herod. Is sinful behavior clouded by the use of such words used in our day?I am not clear on why it is against them having rights and dignity in the secular realm.
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1990Domer
Guest
Agree on all counts, and moral parenting is becoming impossible.We were lied to constantly about sex starting in the late 1960s. Our compassion was taken advantage of. I was there.
It is not a victory for human dignity. It is a victory for a sexual preference. With more preferences to follow.
Facts cannot be invented, but sometimes, they are.
nytimes.com/2010/01/29/us/29sfmetro.html?_r=0
amazon.com/Homosexuality-American-Psychiatry-Politics-Diagnosis/dp/0691028370
Ed
T
Thorolfr
Guest
I’m wrong about gay people needing psychiatric care or about the value of psychiatry in general?You’re entitled to your opinion. But I think you are very wrong. And I am speaking for my son with invisible disabilities and the countless others out there.
BTW my SSA relative with bulemia could have use psychiatric care!
I know that psychiatrists and psychologists do help people, but I also know that the scientific foundations of psychiatry when compared to the rest of medicine are very weak. As a result, diagnosis is much more imprecise and is often a fairly subjective procedure to some extent between the patient and the psychiatrist.
And as someone who was diagnosed with AD/HD (Predominantly Inattentive Type), I certainly have personal experience with psychiatrists and psychologists. But I’m under no illusions that they always know what they’re doing a lot of the time.
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edwest2
Guest
That is false. I and others I’ve met, have been in psychiatric treatment for decades. Pills are far better than “living” on a psych ward. I’ve been hospitalized twice. I’ve met people with a wide spectrum of psychiatric problems. I went to two support groups and was almost hospitalized again, but, by the grace of God, a doctor in an ER looked at my pill bottles, took me off two, and gave me two others. I’m feeling the best I’ve felt in decades.Almost all that psychiatrists do nowadays is to treat symptoms by giving medication. The days of talk therapy alone by psychiatrist are mostly gone.
I must see a psychotherapist on a regular basis and my psychiatrist or ‘no more pills.’
Ed
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edwest2
Guest
By asking God for help, moral parenting is possible. Just a half hour with your kids - telling them who Jesus is, how to live, how to behave. I got off the phone the other day after talking to a parent who did just that and even though we are surrounded by immorality, he got through.Agree on all counts, and moral parenting is becoming impossible.
Ed
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franklinstower
Guest
It could also possibly remind you of Jesus not leading a military uprising to create a Jewish state couldn’t it? Couldn’t Jesus have rallied numbers of people great enough to rival ANY world power at the time and create laws based on his moral teachings?This reminds me of John the Baptist admonishing Herod. Herod’s situation did not involve same sex marriage, but still had John the Baptist admonish him. I don’t think John the Baptist would not have accepted words such as rights and dignity to back off of Herod. Is sinful behavior clouded by the use of such words used in our day?
Again I am not saying your position about gay rights is wrong but I think we all need to be careful about throwing around scriptures to support our arguments.
Would you say that you want a Christian country? Christians running the country, and rules and laws written by Christians? I would be very fearful of an America run by Christian groups- it could go well-- or it could go horribly wrong, but we would likely get a lot of both. I would feel deeply worried for those groups who have fringe religious ideas and practices in such a country.
F
franklinstower
Guest
I mentioned a gay man who I know earlier in this thread. I said that in many ways his spirituality was deeper than mine and I am absolutely convinced that this is true. However in support of your argument made here I want to point out that in the area of monogamy I can see very real disorder in him-- a disorder he cannot or will not see. His partner would like for there to be monogamy-- would like for the sex act between the two to be shared only by them. Knowing full well that it is hurtful to his partner that he is having sexual encounters outside of their relationship he still continues to do it.We were lied to constantly about sex starting in the late 1960s. Our compassion was taken advantage of. I was there.
It is not a victory for human dignity. It is a victory for a sexual preference. With more preferences to follow.
Facts cannot be invented, but sometimes, they are.
nytimes.com/2010/01/29/us/29sfmetro.html?_r=0
amazon.com/Homosexuality-American-Psychiatry-Politics-Diagnosis/dp/0691028370
Ed
I cannot see this as anything other than profoundly selfish and self centered. I have known many gay men and I don’t think it is coincidental that none of them have practiced any kind of sexual fidelity towards their primary relationship (I know some do). I think this is a much bigger problem for men than for women. Men seem to be wired differently and absent of any restrictions it does seem to me that the sex act can quite quickly devolve into addiction.
E
edwest2
Guest
I’m more concerned about ‘radical individualists’ who have made themselves gods and they can do whatever they want. Anarchy is not the answer. Because if everything is permitted then groups could form to do anything, including violence.It could also possibly remind you of Jesus not leading a military uprising to create a Jewish state couldn’t it? Couldn’t Jesus have rallied numbers of people great enough to rival ANY world power at the time and create laws based on his moral teachings?
Again I am not saying your position about gay rights is wrong but I think we all need to be careful about throwing around scriptures to support our arguments.
Would you say that you want a Christian country? Christians running the country, and rules and laws written by Christians? I would be very fearful of an America run by Christian groups- it could go well-- or it could go horribly wrong, but we would likely get a lot of both. I would feel deeply worried for those groups who have fringe religious ideas and practices in such a country.
Ed
E
edwest2
Guest
Here’s what they are doing in courts: “… and filed amicus briefs supporting same-sex marriage in legal cases in Oregon, Washington, New Jersey, New York (three times), Maryland, Connecticut, Iowa, and California. In California, the APA brief was cited by the state Supreme Court when it ruled that same-sex marriage was legal in May 2008.”I’m wrong about gay people needing psychiatric care or about the value of psychiatry in general?
I know that psychiatrists and psychologists do help people, but I also know that the scientific foundations of psychiatry when compared to the rest of medicine are very weak. As a result, diagnosis is much more imprecise and is often a fairly subjective procedure to some extent between the patient and the psychiatrist.
And as someone who was diagnosed with AD/HD (Predominantly Inattentive Type), I certainly have personal experience with psychiatrists and psychologists. But I’m under no illusions that they always know what they’re doing a lot of the time.
Source: apa.org/news/press/releases/2010/08/support-same-sex-marriage.aspx
So the courts certainly use them as reliable evidence.
Ed
J
JimG
Guest
When you speak of “the sex act,” the term would normally refer to marital relations. But those are not possible between persons of the same sex because there is no sexual complementarity. There can be no marital relations. And any other “sex act” than conjugal and marital is by nature disordered, which is the whole problem.I mentioned a gay man who I know earlier in this thread. I said that in many ways his spirituality was deeper than mine and I am absolutely convinced that this is true. However in support of your argument made here I want to point out that in the area of monogamy I can see very real disorder in him-- a disorder he cannot or will not see. His partner would like for there to be monogamy-- would like for the sex act between the two to be shared only by them. Knowing full well that it is hurtful to his partner that he is having sexual encounters outside of their relationship he still continues to do it.
I cannot see this as anything other than profoundly selfish and self centered. I have known many gay men and I don’t think it is coincidental that none of them have practiced any kind of sexual fidelity towards their primary relationship (I know some do). I think this is a much bigger problem for men than for women. Men seem to be wired differently and absent of any restrictions it does seem to me that the sex act can quite quickly devolve into addiction.
F
franklinstower
Guest
I would be worried about either extreme. Serious question that I will not refute OK? Why do you think Jesus refused to form a military and/or political solution to the worlds problems as many of the Jews expected of him? Do you think a principle can be found here that applies for todays’ political situations I have always thought it had to do with the need for human freedom of will and that the solution was bigger and deeper than any politic situation could create or even engender.I’m more concerned about ‘radical individualists’ who have made themselves gods and they can do whatever they want. Anarchy is not the answer. Because if everything is permitted then groups could form to do anything, including violence.
Ed
I know we are all limited and our insight is all partial and no one can see the whole picture but my personal answer to this has always been to get as deeply immersed in Christ as I know how *with the help of a spiritual director *and as deeply transformed as I know how to be, and then help as many people as possible come to the same depth. My hope is that this is enough for my little corner of the world.
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