Gay rights

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JimG said:
I was summarizing some of the things in the book “Adam and Eve After the Pill.” The 1960’s began the sexual revolution at a greatly accelerated pace. Yes, those things existed previously, but contraception was greatly expanded during this period and after.

Also recall that until 1930 every single Protestant denomination had the exact same teaching as the Catholic Church regarding contraception: they universally condemned it. So the culture did take a rather sudden change following that. The book gives all the statistical data of the disastrous results that followed.
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What churches condemned probably didn’t always make much difference to a lot of people. According to one estimate, “By 1780 the percentage of adult colonists who adhered to a church was between 10-30%, not counting slaves or Native Americans. North Carolina had the lowest percentage at about 4%, while New Hampshire and South Carolina were tied for the highest, at about 16%.” So Americans were not always that religious anyways.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Protestantism_in_the_United_States
 
vsedriver said:
I guess it would depend on how ‘Christian’ the people really are. The last thing a sinner wants in office is a truly moral man.
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You are a sinner. I am a sinner. The pope is a sinner. They are sinners.
 
Thorolfr said:
Well I think that you should be able to put your mother on your health insurance plan. And totally unrelated people rarely share all the things together that both same-sex and opposite sex couples do. When you talk about same sex couples as “unrelated males” you make is sound as if they are two strangers.
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Unrelated means they have no genetic connection. There are laws against the closely related getting married. Most people think it is because incest is icky but the real reason was to not have inbreeding in the family.

so what is the difference between two unrelated males who wish to marry and two related females who wish to marry? Both couples are sterile by nature. Marriage no longer assumes that the couple will have sexual relations, since neither pair can engage in intercourse.

But I can’t legally add my mother to my health insurance without proof that we are legally married. Basically, we are being discriminated against for no good reason.
 
Thorolfr said:
What do you mean by a “sexual disorder”? For example, “erectile dysfunction” would probably be considered a kind of sexual disorder that men take things like Viagra for.
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so if a man is sexually attracted to another man that is not a sexual dysfunction?
 
Pope Francis warns marriage has been stretched and distorted in the United States, to the point where it is no longer even similar to the Christian sacrament of matrimony.

…

The Pope did not address the idea of the Church abandoning civil marriage, an idea that has been floated in Catholic circles as the secular institution of marriage has moved further and further from the Christian sacrament.

The way things are today, a Catholic priest who celebrates a church wedding signs a civil marriage certificate that constitutes a legal state marriage at the same time, but there is no reason why it must always be this way.

Maybe we should just rename it in a specifically religious way and distance ourselves from the civil union?
 
Thorolfr said:
Almost all that psychiatrists do nowadays is to treat symptoms by giving medication. The days of talk therapy alone by psychiatrist are mostly gone.
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I disagree. The difference is the do not take insurance.
 
Thorolfr said:
I’m wrong about gay people needing psychiatric care or about the value of psychiatry in general?

I know that psychiatrists and psychologists do help people, but I also know that the scientific foundations of psychiatry when compared to the rest of medicine are very weak. As a result, diagnosis is much more imprecise and is often a fairly subjective procedure to some extent between the patient and the psychiatrist.

And as someone who was diagnosed with AD/HD (Predominantly Inattentive Type), I certainly have personal experience with psychiatrists and psychologists. But I’m under no illusions that they always know what they’re doing a lot of the time.
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Any time you have a field that is mostly determined by subjective testing, this is going to happen. I exist in a special needs community. Do you not think I don’t know of what I talk?

Aside from that issue, you don’t think the field could help children with child abuse, spousal abuse, PTSD from war vets, other traumatic personal occurrences like loss of a close family member?

The good docs do not “throw” medicine at their patients. They gather lots of data and analize it. Let’s not throw the baby out with the bath water!
 
franklinstower said:
I mentioned a gay man who I know earlier in this thread. I said that in many ways his spirituality was deeper than mine and I am absolutely convinced that this is true. However in support of your argument made here I want to point out that in the area of monogamy I can see very real disorder in him-- a disorder he cannot or will not see. His partner would like for there to be monogamy-- would like for the sex act between the two to be shared only by them. Knowing full well that it is hurtful to his partner that he is having sexual encounters outside of their relationship he still continues to do it.

I cannot see this as anything other than profoundly selfish and self centered. I have known many gay men and I don’t think it is coincidental that none of them have practiced any kind of sexual fidelity towards their primary relationship (I know some do). I think this is a much bigger problem for men than for women. Men seem to be wired differently and absent of any restrictions it does seem to me that the sex act can quite quickly devolve into addiction.
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There was actually a Times article on the straight world’s perception of gay marriage. I will try to find it.
 
1990Domer said:
Sorry…it was Slate.

slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2013/06/26/most_gay_couples_aren_t_monogamous_will_straight_couples_go_monogamish.html
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From the article:

“In writing about the subject, gay people emphasize the aspects of their relationships that sound most wholesome and straight-like, Steven Thrasher writes. They neglect to mention that, say, in Thrasher’s case, he met his partner for sex only once, and they ended up falling in love. The larger point being that gay couples are very different when it comes to sex, even if this is not the convenient moment to discuss that. And in legalizing gay marriage, we are accepting a form of sanctioned marriage that is not by habit monogamous and that is inventing all kinds of new models of how to accommodate lust and desire in long-term relationships.”
 
franklinstower said:
Yea but especially-- The Grateful Dead and tie dies.

God bless.
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You know you can’t go there. I’m more a product of the 80’s and GnR, AC/DC and the like. I turn on Hair Nation to stay awake while driving. Maybe a couple songs. But stay away from the bands.
 
1990Domer said:
Sorry…it was Slate.

slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2013/06/26/most_gay_couples_aren_t_monogamous_will_straight_couples_go_monogamish.html
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How about this:
There’s no definitive study—yet—to suggest that newbie couples of the marriage equality era are trending more monogo. But among those who study gay relationships, definite signs indicate that times are changing.
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“Data we’ve collected [shows that] young men ages 16 to 25 are entirely focused on monogamy,” says Brian Mustanski, who studies gay relationships at Northwestern University. “Almost none of them can even conceive of having an open relationship. Many were shocked when I brought it up. I think that idea comes around later, in their 30s, after having had several relationships.”
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Or could it be that gay men under 35 are embracing monogamy not out of wide-eyed, undying passion for one person but because, now more than ever, society, religion, and their families are urging them to? “Today’s younger generation of gay men [in the U.S.] is unique insofar as they are coming of age in an era that lends the possibility of same-sex civil marriage,” says Adam Isaiah Green, who studies gay male relationships at the University of Toronto. “No longer society’s default sexual outlaws, they’re presented with institutional opportunities to create intimate lives that are not too different from their heterosexual counterparts. They’re also adopting children more. These factors don’t in and of themselves equate with monogamous practices, but they’re probably correlated. Certainly they present a very different backdrop against which younger gay men may imagine their opportunities.”
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out.com/news-opinion/2014/01/15/new-monogamists-are-these-men-depriving-themselves-gay-perk
 
edwest2 said:
You keep making the same points. The Church will not change its mind and practicing Catholics are encouraged to oppose this. That’s why the Church closed some of its adoption agencies when the State told them they would be forced to comply. So, they didn’t.
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As far as I know, I’ve never talked much about this point which is that there are now many young gay couples who are striving to be monogamous in their relationships. I was just responding to another posted article which claims that most gay couples, even married ones, do not practice monogamy.
 
Thorolfr said:
As far as I know, I’ve never talked much about this point which is that there are now many young gay couples who are striving to be monogamous in their relationships. I was just responding to another posted article which claims that most gay couples, even married ones, do not practice monogamy.
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One would have to say that such a trend (away from promiscuity) is a move in the right direction. A small but important step.
 
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