Gay rights

[edwest2]

As far as I know, I’ve never talked much about this point which is that there are now many young gay couples who are striving to be monogamous in their relationships. I was just responding to another posted article which claims that most gay couples, even married ones, do not practice monogamy.

From the OUT article: “It’s our relationship and we can do what we want with it, married or not.”

No rules. Too bad.

Ed

 

[1990Domer]

So how many OSA people does this also apply to? You’re not going to claim are you that most heterosexuals in the US by the time they are 42 have had only one relationship? I’m not saying that having multiple relationships is a good thing, but gay people are hardly the only ones in our society who do this.

Never claimed they were. But they are the plurality versus traditional couples.

 

[franklinstower]

As far as I know, I’ve never talked much about this point which is that there are now many young gay couples who are striving to be monogamous in their relationships. I was just responding to another posted article which claims that most gay couples, even married ones, do not practice monogamy.

It is very helpful to hear about studies finding monogamy in gay couples. I am in full support of the LGBT community having the same rights as other couples but am watchful for evidence of the slippery slope argument.

I have had a number of gay men come to me for guidance about how to navigate the incredibly promiscuous culture in the homosexual community. more than one gay man has told me that it is not uncommon to have two or three sexual partners in an evening or over a weekend… The park near my home is filled with gay men having sex in the bathrooms, in cars and even under trees at night. This has always put a pretty negative twist on the homosexual community for me even though I know full well it may not be indicative of the whole community. Also the Gay Pride Parade in my city was disgusting and not child appropriate-- even though I am in support of gay rights these kinds of things weigh on me a bit. The parade more than all of it because it seems like the radar in that community as to what is appropriate for children is way off.

Set me straight because I am not bringing this up to condemn anyone but it seems that people within the LGBT community ought to work to curtail the overly sexual behavior in the parades. If I had brought my daughter to the parade I would have been very upset-- other kids were there… I do not believe it is a sophisticated mocking of stereotypes as some claim, and even if it is-- its not appropriate in public and really serves more to reinforce those stereotypes. At the Gay Pride Parade I was embarrassed to be in support of that community and wondered how it was ever allowed by the LGBT community in the first place… I am not going to lie-- it made me think the minds of many in the community are warped… and I thought to myself “If this is what they have in mind for our culture then I am gong to take a stand against them.”

 

[1990Domer]

By asking God for help, moral parenting is possible. Just a half hour with your kids - telling them who Jesus is, how to live, how to behave. I got off the phone the other day after talking to a parent who did just that and even though we are surrounded by immorality, he got through.

Ed

While I am personally not worried if he stays the course he’s chosen for himself (religious vocation), I see all the empty pews and think about those that worship the God of me.

 

[Thorolfr]

Never claimed they were. But they are the plurality versus traditional couples.

But they’re the plurality? By the time I was a senior in high school and then in college, most heterosexuals I knew at school had had many boyfriends and girlfriends and I hardly believe that they were mostly non-sexual relationships (and this was more than 30 years ago). I hadn’t had any relationships by that time because I didn’t know any other gay young people in the little town I grew up in (and many young gay people were like this back then).

 

[1990Domer]

I’m wrong about gay people needing psychiatric care or about the value of psychiatry in general?

I know that psychiatrists and psychologists do help people, but I also know that the scientific foundations of psychiatry when compared to the rest of medicine are very weak. As a result, diagnosis is much more imprecise and is often a fairly subjective procedure to some extent between the patient and the psychiatrist.

And as someone who was diagnosed with AD/HD (Predominantly Inattentive Type), I certainly have personal experience with psychiatrists and psychologists. But I’m under no illusions that they always know what they’re doing a lot of the time.

I never claimed the first part of the sentence you wrote. As for the value of psychiatry, who are you to say its bunk?

 

[edwest2]

While I am personally not worried if he stays the course he’s chosen for himself (religious vocation), I see all the empty pews and think about those that worship the God of me.

Have hope. Be the salt of the earth. Just one person can do something - not everything - but something.

Ed

 

[1990Domer]

When you speak of “the sex act,” the term would normally refer to marital relations. But those are not possible between persons of the same sex because there is no sexual complementarity. There can be no marital relations. And any other “sex act” than conjugal and marital is by nature disordered, which is the whole problem.

Ed, I think the poster knew what you wrote. I think he was trying to be discreet.

 

[Thorolfr]

I never claimed the first part of the sentence you wrote. As for the value of psychiatry, who are you to say its bunk?

My own experience and my own reading about psychiatry do not inspire much confidence in me.

For example, try reading Gary Greenberg’s new book, The Book of Woe: The DSM and the Unmaking of Psychiatry (Penguin Books, 2013) which has many interviews with top psychiatrists (including ones who have helped write the various editions of the DSM) who talk about their profession, how the DSM was put together and how they diagnose people.

Or there is the book by Dr. Daniel Carlat, Unhinged: The Trouble with Psychiatry - A Doctor’s Revelations about a Profession in Crisis (Free Press, 2010). And Carlat is no run of the mill psychiatrist. He was chief resident in the psych ward at Harvard University Medical School’s Massachusetts General Hospital and is now a Professor of Psychiatry at Tufts University, has his own private practice and publishes the Carlat Psychiatry Report.

Or there are the two very revealing articles by Marcia Angell, “The Epidemic of Mental Illness: Why?” and “The Illusions of Psychiatry,” that appeared in The New York Review of Books, 23 June 2011 and 14 July 2011. And Marcia Angell was the Editor-in-Chief of the prestigious* New England Journal of Medicine*.

Or how about my own experience. Three years ago I was diagnosed by a psychiatrist with Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (Predominantly Inattentive Type). There is certainly plenty of evidence that I fit the criteria in the DSM and that I’ve had these characteristics since childhood. Studies have also demonstrated that ADHD (whatever it is) is almost certainly genetic and tends to run in families. So it’s no surprise that my father also has many of these characteristics as well. But after reading about 15 books by experts on AD/HD, there’s hardly any agreement among psychiatrist and scientists about what causes it, how to treat it, or if it even actually exists. Just last year, the neurologist Dr. Richard Saul published the book, *ADHD Does Not Exist: The Truth About Attention Deficit and Hyperactivity Disorder *(Harper, 2014).

So all of this does not inspire much confidence in psychiatry in me.

And although I’m glad that homosexuality was removed from the DSM, the way that psychiatry has dealt with issues relating to LGBT people also does not inspire much confidence.

 

[1990Domer]

It is very helpful to hear about studies finding monogamy in gay couples. I am in full support of the LGBT community having the same rights as other couples but am watchful for evidence of the slippery slope argument.

I have had a number of gay men come to me for guidance about how to navigate the incredibly promiscuous culture in the homosexual community. more than one gay man has told me that it is not uncommon to have two or three sexual partners in an evening or over a weekend… The park near my home is filled with gay men having sex in the bathrooms, in cars and even under trees at night. This has always put a pretty negative twist on the homosexual community for me even though I know full well it may not be indicative of the whole community. Also the Gay Pride Parade in my city was disgusting and not child appropriate-- even though I am in support of gay rights these kinds of things weigh on me a bit. The parade more than all of it because it seems like the radar in that community as to what is appropriate for children is way off.

Set me straight because I am not bringing this up to condemn anyone but it seems that people within the LGBT community ought to work to curtail the overly sexual behavior in the parades. If I had brought my daughter to the parade I would have been very upset-- other kids were there… I do not believe it is a sophisticated mocking of stereotypes as some claim, and even if it is-- its not appropriate in public and really serves more to reinforce those stereotypes. At the Gay Pride Parade I was embarrassed to be in support of that community and wondered how it was ever allowed by the LGBT community in the first place… I am not going to lie-- it made me think the minds of many in the community are warped… and I thought to myself “If this is what they have in mind for our culture then I am gong to take a stand against them.”

Those parades are more of and “eff you” to those who don’t fully support their lifestyle and everything it entails. At one parade, one person dedicated on the Eucharist when the route passed by a Catholic Church.

 

[1990Domer]

But they’re the plurality? By the time I was a senior in high school and then in college, most heterosexuals I knew at school had had many boyfriends and girlfriends and I hardly believe that they were mostly non-sexual relationships (and this was more than 30 years ago). I hadn’t had any relationships by that time because I didn’t know any other gay young people in the little town I grew up in (and many young gay people were like this back then).

I am talking about so-called “committed” relationships or, in the proper case marriage between man and woman. Not talking about dating or hook-up culture.

 

[1990Domer]

My own experience and my own reading about psychiatry do not inspire much confidence in me.

For example, try reading Gary Greenberg’s new book, The Book of Woe: The DSM and the Unmaking of Psychiatry (Penguin Books, 2013) which has many interviews with top psychiatrists (including ones who have helped write the various editions of the DSM) who talk about their profession, how the DSM was put together and how they diagnose people.

Or there is the book by Dr. Daniel Carlat, Unhinged: The Trouble with Psychiatry - A Doctor’s Revelations about a Profession in Crisis (Free Press, 2010). And Carlat is no run of the mill psychiatrist. He was chief resident in the psych ward at Harvard University Medical School’s Massachusetts General Hospital and is now a Professor of Psychiatry at Tufts University, has his own private practice and publishes the Carlat Psychiatry Report.

Or there are the two very revealing articles by Marcia Angell, “The Epidemic of Mental Illness: Why?” and “The Illusions of Psychiatry,” that appeared in The New York Review of Books, 23 June 2011 and 14 July 2011. And Marcia Angell was the Editor-in-Chief of the prestigious* New England Journal of Medicine*.

Or how about my own experience. Three years ago I was diagnosed by a psychiatrist with Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (Predominantly Inattentive Type). There is certainly plenty of evidence that I fit the criteria in the DSM and that I’ve had these characteristics since childhood. Studies have also demonstrated that ADHD (whatever it is) is almost certainly genetic and tends to run in families. So it’s no surprise that my father also has many of these characteristics as well. But after reading about 15 books by experts on AD/HD, there’s hardly any agreement among psychiatrist and scientists about what causes it, how to treat it, or if it even actually exists. Just last year, the neurologist Dr. Richard Saul published the book, *ADHD Does Not Exist: The Truth About Attention Deficit and Hyperactivity Disorder *(Harper, 2014).

So all of this does not inspire much confidence in psychiatry in me.

And although I’m glad that homosexuality was removed from the DSM, the way that psychiatry has dealt with issues relating to LGBT people also does not inspire much confidence.

N=1 is not a large statistical sample size. Also, I have several fellow alum who are psychiatrists. I don’t read books that aren’t peer reviewed. I tend towards journal reading. And the DSM is notorious for being politically influenced. Enough said.

 

[edwest2]

Love God. Keep His Commandments.

Matthew 7:13

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.

Source: biblehub.com/matthew/7-13.htm

Ed

 

[1990Domer]

Have hope. Be the salt of the earth. Just one person can do something - not everything - but something.

Ed

Trust me, our family lives the motto that “they’ll know we are Christians (Catholics) by our love.” But I do get sad and frustrated. Then my beautiful son will inspire a friend to join us for Holy Mass, and the world becomes bright!

 

[edwest2]

Trust me, our family lives the motto that “they’ll know we are Christians (Catholics) by our love.” But I do get sad and frustrated. Then my beautiful son will inspire a friend to join us for Holy Mass, and the world becomes bright!

Catholics, and Christians in general, have been beaten down over the years. By the media, by their neighbors and coworkers openly living in sin, by having a fellow employee walk into to work saying, out loud: “I got laid last night!”

Celebrities don’t seem to have mothers and fathers. What I mean is, IF I saw my daughter acting like some of these women do in public, on TV and in the movies, there would be a quick call from Dad. “I raised you right and you walk around dressed like a prostitute? No daughter of mine is going to keep doing that! Stop it! Your eternal soul is at stake and you’re being a very bad example for other girls. You quit this show business or you dress up like a lady should. No. I don’t care about the money. I want my daughter to live out her God-given talents in a way that pleases God. So no, this is not about what I want, it’s about what God wants.”

Ed

 

[1990Domer]

Catholics, and Christians in general, have been beaten down over the years. By the media, by their neighbors and coworkers openly living in sin, by having a fellow employee walk into to work saying, out loud: “I got laid last night!”

Celebrities don’t seem to have mothers and fathers. What I mean is, IF I saw my daughter acting like some of these women do in public, on TV and in the movies, there would be a quick call from Dad. “I raised you right and you walk around dressed like a prostitute? No daughter of mine is going to keep doing that! Stop it! Your eternal soul is at stake and you’re being a very bad example for other girls. You quit this show business or you dress up like a lady should. No. I don’t care about the money. I want my daughter to live out her God-given talents in a way that pleases God. So no, this is not about what I want, it’s about what God wants.”

Ed

Amen…more parents should be like you!

 

[mexolic]

It could also possibly remind you of Jesus not leading a military uprising to create a Jewish state couldn’t it? Couldn’t Jesus have rallied numbers of people great enough to rival ANY world power at the time and create laws based on his moral teachings?

Again I am not saying your position about gay rights is wrong but I think we all need to be careful about throwing around scriptures to support our arguments.

Would you say that you want a Christian country? Christians running the country, and rules and laws written by Christians? I would be very fearful of an America run by Christian groups- it could go well-- or it could go horribly wrong, but we would likely get a lot of both. I would feel deeply worried for those groups who have fringe religious ideas and practices in such a country.

I simply used John the Baptist as an example for Christians to be bold and to speak out against immoral lifestyles. But many are doing just the opposite-giving the thumbs up instead.

 

[franklinstower]

I simply used John the Baptist as an example for Christians to be bold and to speak out against immoral lifestyles. But many are doing just the opposite-giving the thumbs up instead.

I was raised up within and outwardly exposed to a deeply dedicated non christian community of people-- being deeply in touch with that community I can say that there is just an assumed sentiment that Christians really don’t have any “authentic spirituality” ie love, and all they really do is judge and criticize everything around them, and this is done without a deep love and compassion emanating from within them. In fact the judgment is palpable from a large portion of the Christian community…

This perception which I think is largely accurate runs so deep outside of Christian circles that it has become THE biggest stumbling block that keeps people from Christ at least in the states. This perception is taken for granted by so many people today.

I remember the absolute shock, dizzying confusion and sense of wonderment I had when I became exposed to Christian mysticism, the saints, and contemplative prayer, through a monk who eventually became my spiritual adviser. As far as morality goes – he is as strict as it gets, he is NOT a liberal catholic and yet he did not lead with that, if fact he waited a good while before ever mentioning those things. Instead he would just meet with me and I would bask in the love of Christ which was so easy to find in his presence, so thick and powerful.

Once I became grounded in Gods love and prayer-- not the idea of Gods love, but Gods love itself and Gods peace and Gods humility and many other of Gods attributes *directly *then I was led into the strict end of morality, and I was willing to go because I knew the power of Christ was real, it was not just a religion made up by men. This is the approach that the Pope is presently advocating for, it seems to be what Jesus did way more often than not also.

There are a lot more people who can be reached in this way than can be reached by reasoned arguments, and really almost none who can be anything but repelled by endless criticism, condemnation and judgment from Christians (before they know Gods love is real, and before they know the Christian who is standing against something they are doing loves them), It seems Jesus was hard only on those religious people who made coming to God difficult through their own arrogance and judgment and I think a large portion of Christianity is in a sort of solidarity with the Sadducees and the Pharisees today even though they don’t seem to notice.

For the last ten years I have taken the approach that the monk showed me, that Jesus seemed to take, and that the Pope is advocating for and you know what? I have been lucky enough to participate in bringing lots and lots of people to a relationship with Christ-- the people want what I have and they want the source of it-- Jesus Christ and the Trinity.

 

[Thorolfr]

But many are doing just the opposite-giving the thumbs up instead.

 

[Rau]

I am not a Catholic but am a Christian and a sincerely deep admirer of the Catholic faith. My question is about gay marriage and why the Catholic Church is against it. I can understand perfectly why gay marriage cannot be permitted within the Catholic Church but cannot understand not wanting them to have the right to marry in the secular world. Are we trying to retain or create a christian country? *Or is it about not wanting our children to be exposed to this temptation? * I am clear about why Christianity does not allow gay marriage or homosexual acts-- I am not clear on why it is against them having rights and dignity in the secular realm.

Why are Christians are against gay men and women having the right to at least have a civil union that affords them the same protections and benefits that married couples enjoy. A common example is a lesbian couple who have been married for twenty five years and one of them falls very ill and eventually dies. It seems to me that the surviving person would have a right to be in the hospital with her partner while dying and also that after death she would be the owner of all properties gained during that union.

I am as strict and devout a follower of Christ in the areas of trying not to sin as the next guy, I am a sinner but I am trying with the fullness of my heart not to sin-- I understand the benefits that come from this struggle. I cannot understand why we try to project our beliefs onto others who don’t hold the same beliefs. I see the supreme court decision to allow gay marriage as a tremendous victory for human dignity in a country that seems to have been founded on the idea of separation of Church and state. What am I missing?

Should your own child desire a same sex relationship, I mean a sexual relationship, how will you advise them? Will you, as a follower of Christ, advise them towards chastity, or will compassion lead you to endorse the relationship they desire?

And if your neighbour, a non-Christian, announced their forthcoming SSM, and your child asks you about it, will you explain to them the proper nature of marriage and how this departs, or will you earnestly join the celebrations?

And in light of those answers, if the State asks you “what do you understand the term marriage” to mean, what will you answer? Will the answer match what you’ve explained to your children?

And lastly, are you aware that in many jurisdictions, the civil “benefits” attached to marriage have been extended to defacto couples including same sex? Access to benefits has not been a significant driver of the call for SSM for quite some time.