Gays and catholics

[grandfather]

It is such an awesome matter to think that if one is in the state of Grace, that The Blessed Trinity resides within our bodies, in our souls. Sometimes after Holy Communion, I reflect that I am now as a tabernacle. The dictionary definition of “tabernacle” is:
.a temporary dwelling or shelter, as a tent or hut.
.a dwelling place.
Hence in the state of Grace even our bodies are tabernacles.

Stunning matter to reflect on!

Barb

We never do get it completely. We can think about it and believe in faith, but somehow we can’t fully comprehend it. I am reminded of the story of Blessed Imelda who died at ten years old after receiving her First Holy Communion under miraculous circumstances. She remains incorrupt. If we really fully comprehended what we were doing we might die. The joy would be too great to cope with and it would kill us. Imagine instead of dying of cancer, heart disease, emphysema, liver or kidney failure, dying of joy.

I don’t think there is anything more to say on this thread. It has kind of degenerated into confusion. Thanks for your faith and contribution Barb.

 

[Newbie2]

Newbie2;4208400:

Referring to your Post HERE

Great observation and a very important one I think, Newbie:thumbsup: …in the ‘telling them’ , how we tell them can be of very great importance and whether we are able to get the message across convincingly or not, whether ‘telling them’ bears good fruit or whether it does not. Great point you have made!

Barb

Thanks.

 

[Genesis12345]

Dear Genesis

It is very difficult if the poster does not quote the words to which he is referring to. And certainly to state that a Catholic is “mocking the Powerful Sacrament of Confession” is insulting to that poster. It is a personal accusation and insulting to a Catholic especially to make such an accusation and especially to me as I value the Sacrament of Reconcilation with great awe and gratitutde. Again, it is an insulting personal statement.

Worse and another personal insult, you accuse me of insulting God. And this is another personal attack:

I really have no idea at all what it is that I have posted that is so upsetting to you. I have posted at least once and probably more your own posts and my response to them and it really does seem to me that you are reading me wrongly. Your posts leave me nothing but in confusion as to what comments of mine you are referrring with which you are in such degree of heated disagreement and condemnation.
If you would quote my comments that you regard as incorrect, then I can address the issue and even amend my thinking if I do realize that I am incorrect.

I have never said this at all and if you think I have, then please quote from my Post where you have found it. You are accusing me of stating something that I have not stated at all.

This is a Moral Theology Forum and a Discussion Forum and I think personally all Catholics should have a working knowledge of moral theology and certainly to understand what mortal sin is and what it is not, the Sacrament of Reconciliation, and also judging others. If you have any problems with everday Catholics posting into a Moral Theology Forum their thoughts and concepts re moral theology, then address those problems to the moderator of this Forum or to The Administrator.

I am very tempted to report your insulting post to the moderator and if you were not a new member, I would be more inclined to do so than I am. You are not only personally insulting, you have accused me of stating matters that I have not stated at all. But as a new member especially I am refraining at this point from reporting your insulting Post.

Blessings and my regards…Barb

 

[Genesis12345]

Barb,
Go ahead and report me to the moderator and God bless you for your uncharity. You are misssing the entire picture. I personally think it is UNJUST and IMMORAL to give personal opinions about what is a sin and what is not a sin. If this were the case, why do we have priests? Let’s just do our own thing and forget about God and His plan of salvation.

I was referring to viewers that are telling other people that this and that is NOT a mortal sin and they have no right in saying this unless they are theologians or priests!!!

You should understand whatever advice you give and if it is wrong, you will be accountable on Judgment Day.

It is fine to give advice, but to say what is a mortal sin is not in accordance with the teaching of the Catholic church.

I have read numerous questions from viewers and the one about premarital sex where the viewer says it is fine to have premarital sex if they are in love. Well, if they are in love, why don’t they get married and have a comittment? I just cannot believe how viewers are allowed to tell someone to go ahead an do it.

If these people had copies of The Catechism, everything is in it about the church.

You are talking about being insulted, well, as a former theologian for the Catholic priesthood, I take some viewers answers as a complete INSULT because of lack of knowledge.

So, Barbara, you do not have to worry, because I will NEVER respond to any comments that you give viewers. There is something totally wrong with this entire picture. I know that the Catholic bishops cannot interfere, but if they could, I promise you 100 % that this webpage would be deleted.

I have NEVER heard so many opinions that do not make sense. If these viewers have problems, than go see a counselor or if it is matters of morals, go see a priest. This is why we have them.

I would not ask for a layperson’s advice on church matters and especially on sin because they are not trained for this ministry.

I will not respond to any of your emails, so out of Christian charity, do not contact me.
Genesis12345

 

[BarbaraTherese]

We never do get it completely. We can think about it and believe in faith, but somehow we can’t fully comprehend it. I am reminded of the story of Blessed Imelda who died at ten years old after receiving her First Holy Communion under miraculous circumstances. She remains incorrupt. If we really fully comprehended what we were doing we might die. The joy would be too great to cope with and it would kill us. Imagine instead of dying of cancer, heart disease, emphysema, liver or kidney failure, dying of joy.

I don’t think there is anything more to say on this thread. It has kind of degenerated into confusion. Thanks for your faith and contribution Barb.

Hi again GF…I have heard of Blessed Imelda, but nothing comes to mind. Do you have a link handy where I could read up on her life.

If we really fully comprehended what we were doing we might die.

… …

Psalm 41 - 3 My soul hath thirsted after the strong living God; when shall I come and appear before the face of God?
Exodus 33 - 18 And he said: show me thy glory. 19 He answered: I will show thee all good, and I will proclaim in the name of the Lord before thee: and I will have mercy on whom I will, and I will be merciful to whom it shall please me. *

20

• And again he said: Thou canst not see my face: for man shall not see me and live.

I don’t think there is anything more to say on this thread. It has kind of degenerated into confusion.

I think you could probably be correct.

Blessings GF to you and to yours and my regards…Barb

 

[BarbaraTherese]

BarbaraTherese;4210102:

Thanks.

… …I see you are a graduate student of theology. We have some very impressive qualifications amongst some members and it is good to have you all aboard here. I will be keeping an eye out for your posts and informed comments…God bless you!..regards…Barb
Deo Gratius

 

[Methodi]

Dear Genesis

It is very difficult if the poster does not quote the words to which he is referring to. And certainly to state that a Catholic is “mocking the Powerful Sacrament of Confession” is insulting to that poster. It is a personal accusation and insulting to a Catholic especially to make such an accusation and especially to me as I value the Sacrament of Reconcilation with great awe and gratitutde. Again, it is an insulting personal statement.

Worse and another personal insult, you accuse me of insulting God. And this is another personal attack:

I really have no idea at all what it is that I have posted that is so upsetting to you. I have posted at least once and probably more your own posts and my response to them and it really does seem to me that you are reading me wrongly. Your posts leave me nothing but in confusion as to what comments of mine you are referrring with which you are in such degree of heated disagreement and condemnation.
If you would quote my comments that you regard as incorrect, then I can address the issue and even amend my thinking if I do realize that I am incorrect.

I have never said this at all and if you think I have, then please quote from my Post where you have found it. You are accusing me of stating something that I have not stated at all.

This is a Moral Theology Forum and a Discussion Forum and I think personally all Catholics should have a working knowledge of moral theology and certainly to understand what mortal sin is and what it is not, the Sacrament of Reconciliation, and also judging others. If you have any problems with everday Catholics posting into a Moral Theology Forum their thoughts and concepts re moral theology, then address those problems to the moderator of this Forum or to The Administrator.

I am very tempted to report your insulting post to the moderator and if you were not a new member, I would be more inclined to do so than I am. You are not only personally insulting, you have accused me of stating matters that I have not stated at all. But as a new member especially I am refraining at this point from reporting your insulting Post.

Blessings and my regards…Barb

There are people who spend a lifetime trying to rid themselves of a particular sin & never succeed, God knows man is weak, if You fall over & over , just go to confession , if U feel truly peninent, even if u do the sin everyday, God is always there to forgive

 

[grandfather]

Hi again GF…I have heard of Blessed Imelda, but nothing comes to mind. Do you have a link handy where I could read up on her life.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

There are people who spend a lifetime trying to rid themselves of a particular sin & never succeed, God knows man is weak, if You fall over & over , just go to confession , if U feel truly peninent, even if u do the sin everyday, God is always there to forgive

…Great comment:thumbsup: …
With sins and failings that are a consistent struggle, the very act of going to Confession and confessing with full sorrow and attempts to overcome is a guarantee of God’s Mercy in this awesome Sacrament … it will also bring Grace to strengthen in the struggle. Struggling with failings can be a means of humility…or as St. Teresa wrote “make a virtue of necessity” i.e. it is necessary to struggle with failings…make a virtue of it and learn humility. This raises an important point: What is humility exactly? and another subject.

This is an important point from the Catholic Catechism re serious failings:

1860 Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man.

The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders.

Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest.

The Confessional too is the place to open up fully to Father and ask his opinion and/or advice. The Confessional can be the place of spiritual direction and it is, as most often Father will give a few words of consolation and/or advice.

Thank you for the very important comment:thumbsup: …we need to value the Sacrament of Reconciliation with wonder and awe. We meet the Merciful Jesus “your Faith has brought you recovery…go your way and sin no more”. Put firm Faith in the Sacrament of Reconciliation and never abandon the Merciful Loving Jesus ever present in the Sacrament of Reconciliation…visit Him often and trustfully and confidently.

Barb

 

[Methodi]

Barb,
Go ahead and report me to the moderator and God bless you for your uncharity. You are misssing the entire picture. I personally think it is UNJUST and IMMORAL to give personal opinions about what is a sin and what is not a sin. If this were the case, why do we have priests? Let’s just do our own thing and forget about God and His plan of salvation.

I was referring to viewers that are telling other people that this and that is NOT a mortal sin and they have no right in saying this unless they are theologians or priests!!!

You should understand whatever advice you give and if it is wrong, you will be accountable on Judgment Day.

It is fine to give advice, but to say what is a mortal sin is not in accordance with the teaching of the Catholic church.

I have read numerous questions from viewers and the one about premarital sex where the viewer says it is fine to have premarital sex if they are in love. Well, if they are in love, why don’t they get married and have a comittment? I just cannot believe how viewers are allowed to tell someone to go ahead an do it.

If these people had copies of The Catechism, everything is in it about the church.

You are talking about being insulted, well, as a former theologian for the Catholic priesthood, I take some viewers answers as a complete INSULT because of lack of knowledge.

So, Barbara, you do not have to worry, because I will NEVER respond to any comments that you give viewers. There is something totally wrong with this entire picture. I know that the Catholic bishops cannot interfere, but if they could, I promise you 100 % that this webpage would be deleted.

I have NEVER heard so many opinions that do not make sense. If these viewers have problems, than go see a counselor or if it is matters of morals, go see a priest. This is why we have them.

I would not ask for a layperson’s advice on church matters and especially on sin because they are not trained for this ministry.

I will not respond to any of your emails, so out of Christian charity, do not contact me.
Genesis12345

Its even hard to commit a mortal sin all three things must be present, full knowledge, full consent& serious matter

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

If this be so, then it follows any sexually disordered act (and this is not only homosexual acts…some heterosexual acts as well) means that the person is disordered. Truth is we are all disordered since we are all sinners.

That’s a fact.​

A straight person who is blown up with pride & self-conceit - all things being equal - would seemto be in a far worse state than a homosexual who corresponds to God’s grace. People make far too much of homosexuality, & abortion: these are nothing in comparison with pride. One can be proud & straight; maybe denouncing pride (a sin which differs from homosexual activity in that *everybody *is guilty of it) might cut too near the bone for some people. If homosexuality had a lower “yuk factor” - like (say) selling armaments (several of which do a beautiful job of blowing off the limbs of other human beings & leaving them as ruins of human beings - we might hear less of it, & more about sins that are far more prevalent & popular & well-regarded, like avarice & covetousness & money-worship.

A verse lacking to the Bible: “Homosexual practice is the root of all evils”. In reality, “the love of money is the root of all evil”. A verse which is surely very relevant just now - the credit crunch was not started by men trying to hump other men. There are however plenty of straight Christian capitalists, but this sin is seldom criticised; it’s hardly even called a sin; if anything, it is praised & defended as good. To reject capitalism would cripple a lot of countries & churches, but that does not make it any less wrong.

A lot of gay-bashing is probably a diversionary tactic - this would help explain the very disjointed use made of the OT as a mine of anti-homosexual texts.

I have known some homosexual guys who were more about Gospel living and attitudes than those that claim to live the Gospel. Gold is wherever it is found.

Blessings and regards…Barb

“Amen” to that ​

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Its even hard to commit a mortal sin all three things must be present, full knowledge, full consent& serious matter

Actually it is and if one is in doubt, one should speak with a priest either by appointment or in the Confessional. The Confessional is also the place of seeking advice. If one gives it thought it has to be something very serious indeed to destroy the life of Grace in our souls, destroy the bond between the person and God and His Church, and to potentiall if we die in mortal sin, condemn one to Hell for eternity. Hence it is important to understand what mortal sin is and what it is not.

What exactly is mortal sin is often not understood and grave matter is stated as mortal sin. This can bring great distress and spiritual hardship, even discouragment and despair to a person. Here is the CCC defintion:
scborromeo.org/ccc/p3s1c1a8.htm#1856

Go to paragraphs: 1855 to 1861…and they bear a careful read so we do understand what IS venial and what IS mortal sin.

Many overlook this from para 1860 (see below):
" The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders."

[QUOTING FROM CATHOLIC CATECHISM]
1860 "Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders. Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest. " [END QUOTE]

If one is struggling with the promptings of feelings and passions and/or some kind of external pressure or/and pathological disorder(s) of some kind, the place to seek advice as well as great strength in the struggle is in the Confessional/Sacrament of Penance or Reconciliation/Confession. It is also the place to find out with accuracy and from an educated viewpoint - outstandingly and singularly blessed with the charism of Grace in the priesthood and the Sacrament itself - whether one is commiting mortal sin or whether one is not … and in the Confession as well as this, great Grace will be granted to the struggle - and probably moreso than anywhere else.

Thank you for the comment, Gottle of Geer, and spot on I thought:thumbsup: …Blessings and my regards…Barb

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Grandfather:

Sorry I have no link. Read her bio years ago. Blessed Imelda is the patron of first communicants. She was an orphan child who lived in a Dominican (if I recall) convent maybe three centuries ago. In those days Communion in the Latin Church was delayed until some later age. She was ten. She was the darling of the nuns and she always longed for the Sacrament. She said she thought she would die of love, and did not know how anyone could receive Jesus and not die. The nuns were in chapel for Mass one night and after Mass they left. She stayed behind and when they went looking for her they found her on her knees in adoration with a host hovering in the air above her. They called the priest who came with a paten and the host descended to it. He thought it must be for Imelda and he gave her Communion. She died on the spot. Her body is incorrupt.

How beautiful, GF! The story does ring bells. It seems we are having more child saints in The Church! Deo Gratius! A matter for great rejoicing and thankfulness! I am taking a note of your post into my “To Do List” and will see if I can get a link to the story of Blessed Imelda.

That is the short version. I may have the hard copy of the book in my library somewhere, but probably gave it away.

Another give-r away - er!!! Quite a few of my books have gone the same way…some lent out and not recorded and never returned. I think our parish may be trying to get together something of a lending library and I hope so. Our Catholic Lending Library is on the other side of the city and out in the suburbs and too far to travel without a vehicle as I.

I think I am a very logical person. I have no idea what the person is carrying on about who is giving you gas. I am totally baffled

I am totally baffled too and we are not the only ones. Not to worry, it comes from a new member. I am not reporting it unless it continues and am hoping it will just die out if I dont comment and I think that may have been my big mistake - commenting. Obviously a confused new member, God bless him

When I ask in another Forum for a link re Bl. Imelda, I will return here and post the link into this thread and link it to this Post so you will be aware.

Blessings to you and yours, GF…and my regards…Barb

 

[Nickkname]

Well, I know this might be a hard one (or not), but are homosexuals evil? I have herd that their actions are evil, but if you look it from a “normal” persons view, then you just would see 2 persons in love…so is it wrong or is it something else

It’s not the “normal” persons view, it’s the general persons view. Big difference. But, yes, that is what it looks like, two persons in love, because homosexual tendencies are not a sin. Homosexual acts, however, are sins. Another big difference. And there is yet another big difference between the sinner and the sin: the one who commits the sin is not evil, but the action done, that is the evil.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

That’s a fact.​

A straight person who is blown up with pride & self-conceit - all things being equal - would seemto be in a far worse state than a homosexual who corresponds to God’s grace. People make far too much of homosexuality, & abortion: these are nothing in comparison with pride. One can be proud & straight; maybe denouncing pride (a sin which differs from homosexual activity in that *everybody *is guilty of it) might cut too near the bone for some people. If homosexuality had a lower “yuk factor” - like (say) selling armaments (several of which do a beautiful job of blowing off the limbs of other human beings & leaving them as ruins of human beings - we might hear less of it, & more about sins that are far more prevalent & popular & well-regarded, like avarice & covetousness & money-worship.

A verse lacking to the Bible: “Homosexual practice is the root of all evils”. In reality, “the love of money is the root of all evil”. A verse which is surely very relevant just now - the credit crunch was not started by men trying to hump other men. There are however plenty of straight Christian capitalists, but this sin is seldom criticised; it’s hardly even called a sin; if anything, it is praised & defended as good. To reject capitalism would cripple a lot of countries & churches, but that does not make it any less wrong.

A lot of gay-bashing is probably a diversionary tactic - this would help explain the very disjointed use made of the OT as a mine of anti-homosexual texts.

“Amen” to that ​

Hi again Gottle of Geer…I think some religious people go way overboad into a type of emotionalism and near on hysteric reaction to anything remotely connected to sexuality and morality. It is in fact a complete over reaction.

I am almost at risk I think of my life in stating this in view of some comments, but I will state it anyway :

In college in my teen years taught by Dominican nuns were were receiving instruction on sexual morality with great and ardent condemnation of sins of a sexual nature…in fact totally emotional condemnation connecting to mortal sin and eternal damnation. I was probably about 14yrs old at the time and always the thinker and often to my peril from my earliest years and I put my hand up and when Sister acknowledged me I said something like this: “It seems to me that God has given us sexual drives as one of our basic instincts along with food and shelter (taught rightly to us by the nuns) … but He has not given us instincts and drives to steal or lie, or to hurt others in some way. I wonder which is really the more serious sin?”

Oh boy, was I in hot water!

Blessings and regards…Barb

 

[BarbaraTherese]

It’s not the “normal” persons view, it’s the general persons view. Big difference. But, yes, that is what it looks like, two persons in love, because homosexual tendencies are not a sin. Homosexual acts, however, are sins. Another big difference. And there is yet another big difference between the sinner and the sin: the one who commits the sin is not evil, but the action done, that is the evil.

Hi NN…Good comment:thumbsup: . Even psychology and psychiatry agree that what is “normal” in and for a human being is totally unknown. What society tends to do is take what is most common and that becomes the “normal”. Society will in various ways then act and even enforce certain measures to ensure that what is most common prevails and as “the normal” for a human being.
Truth of the matter is that “normal and normality”, even reality, are really imaginary “lines” and ever shifting socially imaginary lines … and most often to ensure the survival of society and the status quo.

But, yes, that is what it looks like, two persons in love, because homosexual tendencies are not a sin. Homosexual acts, however, are sins. Another big difference.

And there is yet another big difference between the sinner and the sin: the one who commits the sin is not evil, but the action done, that is the evil./

Good comment:thumbsup: …and a very important one.

Blessings and regards…Barb

 

[Newbie2]

Newbie2;4217144:

… …I see you are a graduate student of theology. We have some very impressive qualifications amongst some members and it is good to have you all aboard here. I will be keeping an eye out for your posts and informed comments…God bless you!..regards…Barb
Deo Gratius

Stop it. You’re making be blush.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

BarbaraTherese;4218586:

Stop it. You’re making be blush.

I mean it! Some posters when I sight their UserName, I stop and have a read knowing that they do have education and most often quite educated viewpoints. I have learnt a lot from these posts over the years. But to spare you in charity blushing (I need the artificial stuff ) our informed and educated posters are not infallible like me. I hope, in Charity, that will make you feel more comfortablehttp://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_22.gifLOL!
God’s blessings and rich consolations…my warm regards…cacha on your Posts and I’ll probably be lurking - and if I am sure I am not going to make a fool of myself, which I often do despite my gift of infallibility, I will add my comments - fools rush in and all that!!! …Barb

 

[Genesis12345]

Dear Barbara:

---

I just wanted to tell you about my educational background.

---

I have an MA in Education; an MA in Theology; an MA in Physics and Chemistry and an MA in Religious Education.

---

I have attended the following schools:
John Carroll in Cleveland, Ohio

---

Franciscan University of Steubenville, Steubenville, OH

---

Notre Dame in Indiana

---

Catholic University of America, Washington, DC

---

Thank you and may God bless you in your efforts.
Genesis12345

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Dear Barbara:

I just wanted to tell you about my educational background.

I have an MA in Education; an MA in Theology; an MA in Physics and Chemistry and an MA in Religious Education.

I have attended the following schools:
John Carroll in Cleveland, Ohio

Franciscan University of Steubenville, Steubenville, OH

Notre Dame in Indiana

Catholic University of America, Washington, DC

Thank you and may God bless you in your efforts.
Genesis12345

… …Another educated poster! We sure have some impressively qualified posters on CAF! Thank you for sharing…

God’s Blessings and consolations to you and yours also, Genesis…and on your own efforts and ministry …

My warm regards…cacha also on the rounds of the Forums:thumbsup: …Barb