Gays May Be Prosecuted at 2014 Olympics

[LisaA]

The idea that gay people are trying to convert and pervert children as well as molest them was part of the Nazi propaganda targeted at homosexuals. The Jews were said to use the blood of Christian children in their Passover holiday ritual and the gypsies were accused of kidnapping and disposing of children. All three groups–gays, Jews, and gypsies–were demonized by means of focusing attention on the danger they posed to children. There are people who believe some or all of this nonsense to this very day.

Realize the Russians are very aware of the case of two homosexuals who bred a child with a Russian woman (or bought the child however you wish to characterize it). They then proceeded to sexually abuse the child, to use the child in pornography. This may have something to do with both the Russian ban on adopting children and the apparent crackdown on homosexual activists.

That the Russians are flexing their muscles is no surprise and the Olympics is going to give them a platform. Although the vast majority of homosexuals do not abuse children, please don’t act as if it doesn’t happen and in larger numbers (proportionally) than heterosexuals. Putin doesn’t give a rip about being P.C.

I suspect that if gays keep their zippers zipped and don’t make their sexual practices public, they will be able to compete without any issues. Either that or it’s Putin’s plot to prevent our male skaters from winning the Gold Medal again

Lisa

 

[andrewstx]

The idea that gay people are trying to convert and pervert children as well as molest them was part of the Nazi propaganda targeted at homosexuals. The Jews were said to use the blood of Christian children in their Passover holiday ritual and the gypsies were accused of kidnapping and disposing of children. All three groups–gays, Jews, and gypsies–were demonized by means of focusing attention on the danger they posed to children. There are people who believe some or all of this nonsense to this very day.

Thank Meltzer, I was not aware of that or more likely forgot it. I was becoming adult during the Anita Bryant “save the children” movement that was lead by fundamentalist Protestants and not Catholics not at that time anyway. The myth of gays “converting” heterosexual kids to just become homosexuals is just preposterous on it’s face.

And it carried on in the Briggs Initiative, and still many people become incensed at the idea of gays adopting. “because they will just convert the kids into being homosexuals”.

Yeah right.

 

[gam197]

Thank Meltzer, I was not aware of that or more likely forgot it. I was becoming adult during the Anita Bryant “save the children” movement that was lead by fundamentalist Protestants and not Catholics not at that time anyway. The myth of gays “converting” heterosexual kids to just become homosexuals is just preposterous on it’s face.

And it carried on in the Briggs Initiative, and still many people become incensed at the idea of gays adopting. “because they will just convert the kids into being homosexuals”.

Yeah right.

Anita Bryan and “Save the Children” in the public arena was not about conversion but jobs. Anita Bryant did not want her own children influenced. They were in a Christian school and she was afraid her own children’s school would be forced to hire gay teachers.

“In 1977, Dade County, Florida, passed an ordinance sponsored by Bryant’s former friend Ruth Shack, that prohibited discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. Bryant led a highly publicized campaign to repeal the ordinance as the leader of a coalition named Save Our Children.”… wikipedia

 

[Corki]

I think parents should do their jobs. Again, don’t play the “it can’t be my fault” game. Gay lobbies and the 2% of gays that classify under the so-called “militant gays” category don’t actually do anything to indoctrinate children. Those 2% do make life hard for Catholic businesspeople, sure. But the only thing gay people have ever tried to do with children is to teach them that suicide is not an option. If you don’t want your gay children acting on their desires, teach them that the desires aren’t bad but the behavior is. If you teach your kids that their SSAs are bad, you are directly responsible for them committing suicide or leaving the faith.

The problem is that militant “gay” activists do not deny that they want to indoctrinate children. This is part of every “gay” rights group’s “educational” goals. They want children to be forced into accepting a homosexual lifestyle as normal. They want children to be “taught” that a family with two “mommies” or two “daddies” is just as valid as a traditional family. This is not just indoctrination, it’s child abuse.

To say that they are not already doing this is a lie.

 

[AuntyP]

Tut-tut. I suppose their school books have mommy and daddy stories too, even where the parents don’t approve. Perhaps he’ll even ban secularist symbols from said schools. Shocking!

What next from the Russians? Recording people’s phone calls, emails and other on-line activity? Tapping journalists’ phones? Eroding freedom of the press? Prosecuting whistle blowers? Use the Revenue service to persecute their political opponents? Sounds like a dangerous abuse of power. How could any reputable country do such terrible things?

 

[Corki]

Tut-tut. I suppose their school books have mommy and daddy stories too, even where the parents don’t approve. Perhaps he’ll even ban secularist symbols from said schools. Shocking!

What next from the Russians? Recording people’s phone calls, emails and other on-line activity? Tapping journalists’ phones? Eroding freedom of the press? Prosecuting whistle blowers? Use the Revenue service to persecute their political opponents? Sounds like a dangerous abuse of power. How could any reputable country do such terrible things?

:clapping::crying:

 

[SMGS127]

I agree. Gang rape and murder are still illegal in Russia, I think?

Denying people goods and services based on religious beliefs is still constitutional in the US, right? Gay marriage bills don’t change that, right? I don’t remember any text in the bills that say that. Prudent minds see the secondary effects, as well as the lack of judicial support, and oppose a bill before it gets out of hand.

The problem is that militant “gay” activists do not deny that they want to indoctrinate children. This is part of every “gay” rights group’s “educational” goals. They want children to be forced into accepting a homosexual lifestyle as normal. They want children to be “taught” that a family with two “mommies” or two “daddies” is just as valid as a traditional family. This is not just indoctrination, it’s child abuse.

To say that they are not already doing this is a lie.

Right, but the 2% of the LGBT community that are “militant gay activists” does not make it moral to jail the other 98%. If someone viewed Catholics for Choice as representative of the Catholic Church and tried burning a church for pro-life reasons, would that be sane? No.

Again, spend time in the LGBT community if you want to actually know who they are as people. If you don’t care to spend time with them, then don’t judge a community you have no experience with and no knowledge of. I am telling you how the community is as someone who experienced the insides of at least 4 different LGBT communities for 7 years. Most of them are afraid of getting shot or fired above all else, to be quite honest, and this is in the U.S. You can imagine how much worse it is in Russia.

Also, I would argue that “Heather Has Two Mommies” is actually less harmful for kids than parents who teach their children that gays are “bad people.” At least the first doesn’t push kids to kill themselves.

 

[Darryl1958]

No pearls for you.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Right, but the 2% of the LGBT community that are “militant gay activists” does not make it moral to jail the other 98%. If someone viewed Catholics for Choice as representative of the Catholic Church and tried burning a church for pro-life reasons, would that be sane? No.

QUOTE]

Oh please, it is not just the (supposed) 2% militant gay activists who want to indoctrinate children into the homosexualist new normal. It is the norm among the gays. It is the norm among nice, respectable people like yourself.

 

[livingwordunity]

it is not just the (supposed) 2% militant gay activists who want to indoctrinate children into the homosexualist new normal. It is the norm among the gays. It is the norm among nice, respectable people like yourself.

I agree.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Will you teach your kids that gays are “vulgar” people though? Will you teach your kids the differences between SSAs and behavior? I can’t tell you how many so-called “Christian” parents end up with kids attempting suicide after they spend their (gay) child’s whole childhood teaching them that gay people are the scum of the Earth. Those parents are more vulgar than any gay person could ever be.

The secular world is indeed vulgar. But you are so obsessed with your own homosexuality that you make stuff up. Did I say that gay people are vulgar. No. I did not. I’m talking about the whole nasty secular society in the west that will swallow my family up once we return to it.

You are so angry and defensive. It must have been hard for you to be called the scum of the Earth. I’m so sorry. Sending prayers your way since that is the only thing that can offer you comfort.

 

[SMGS127]

Oh please, it is not just the (supposed) 2% militant gay activists who want to indoctrinate children into the homosexualist new normal. It is the norm among the gays. It is the norm among nice, respectable people like yourself.

Almost no gays have motivation to “indoctrinate” children. I will agree that it is pretty mainstream for the gay community to tell kids that their SSAs don’t make them bad people, since the religious fail to do their basic parenting job by leaving this out. But I’ve actually never met a single gay person who wanted to try to “convert” children. In 7 years. Meeting thousands of gay people in multiple locations around the country. Nice try though. In fact, only a very small percentage (maybe 1%?) of gay people I’ve met wanted religion out of the world entirely, and only a slightly higher percentage favored stuff like kindergarten books without opt-outs and lawsuits against Catholic businesses.

Where do you get your information about how your average gay feels? Do you spend time in the LGBT communities? Well no, we’ve already established you don’t. So you really have no idea, and you should admit that. Also, do you not feel that a celibate gay/lesbian has a place in the Church? If so, you are also in direct opposition to the Vatican.

A surprisingly high number of gay people actually still were willing to seek the call to Christ, despite all the endless verbal beatings they take on a daily basis from Puritans like yourself. I daily work to help them see the importance of His Church and His doctrine and His call to moral behavior, and I daily help them to ignore the ignorant and those filled with wrath and hatred towards anyone who has SSAs. It’s a true shame when the language of the sinners is more in line with Christ than the language of the religious, yet our world has come to this. You guys imply to (and depress) your kids by lying that gays are nothing but evil, perverted people, while gays preach love and equal dignity for all. They are lost sinners in their homosexual behavior, yes. But what’s your excuse?

 

[SMGS127]

The secular world is indeed vulgar. But you are so obsessed with your own homosexuality that you make stuff up. Did I say that gay people are vulgar. No. I did not. I’m talking about the whole nasty secular society in the west that will swallow my family up once we return to it.

I am hardly obsessed with my own SSAs. I seek nothing but to provide a loving environment for gays to come back to the Church and stop their behavior.

You are so angry and defensive. It must have been hard for you to be called the scum of the Earth. I’m so sorry. Sending prayers your way since that is the only thing that can offer you comfort.

A mother protecting her young is always angry and defensive. Do you not understand how vitriol harms these LGBT youth? I wish nothing more but to warm the hearts of those who see gay people as nothing but evil & perverse. They are STILL people. I will defend them every single day of my life against everyone who throws out insults and wishes for them to be jailed for their sins. I have a special place in my heart for the only people in my life (besides those in Heaven ) that were willing to tell me that my SSAs didn’t make me worse than dirt. Now that I am stable (and I AM stable, though you may not believe it, although I do appreciate any and all prayers, because you can never have too many), I am fighting hard to protect other children from angry parents who understand nothing about the consequences of their actions. Parents are so quick to talk about how evil gays are until their own child ends up ODing from depression.

This isn’t just personal because of me; I’ve heard about way too many suicide attempts and seen way too many homeless and screwed-up kids from horrible parenting from a religious standpoint that I need to do this for them. Can’t you see that? Does the person with SSAs need to be the only Catholic standing up for the basic human right of DIGNITY? People in this thread (albeit maybe not you) act like gays are all trying to break into your home and kidnap your children. In the process, they drive their own kids out of their homes into LGBT communities (or worse…) and into sin. If religious parents (especially Mormons and Baptists) did better jobs protecting their children, we wouldn’t have NEAR the “vulgar” society we have to this day.

Edit: If you’re going to pray for me, please send those prayers to gay youth growing up in painful situations. They need it much more than me

 

[KnightVigilant]

Concerning those who argue that it is against Catholic teaching to enact laws against sodomy: It seems you are not familiar with Catholic teaching concerning sodomy. The following is a direct quote from POPE ST. PIUS V. No Catholic is at liberty to disagree with this declaration.

"That horrible crime, on account of which corrupt and obscene cities were destroyed by fire through divine condemnation, causes us most bitter sorrow and shocks our mind, impelling us to repress such a crime with the greatest possible zeal.

Quite opportunely the Fifth Lateran Council [1512-1517] issued this decree: “Let any member of the clergy caught in that vice against nature, given that the wrath of God falls over the sons of perfidy, be removed from the clerical order or forced to do penance in a monastery” (chap. 4, X, V, 31).

So that the contagion of such a grave offense may not advance with greater audacity by taking advantage of impunity, which is the greatest incitement to sin, and so as to more severely punish the clerics who are guilty of this nefarious crime and who are not frightened by the death of their souls, we determine that they should be handed over to the severity of the secular authority, which enforces civil law.

Therefore, wishing to pursue with greater rigor than we have exerted since the beginning of our pontificate, we establish that any priest or member of the clergy, either secular or regular, who commits such an execrable crime, by force of the present law be deprived of every clerical privilege, of every post, dignity and ecclesiastical benefit, and having been degraded by an ecclesiastical judge, let him be immediately delivered to the secular authority to be put to death, as mandated by law as the fitting punishment for laymen who have sunk into this abyss."

traditioninaction.org/religious/n009rp_HomosexualPriests.htm

 

[SMGS127]

Concerning those who argue that it is against Catholic teaching to enact laws against sodomy: It seems you are not familiar with Catholic teaching concerning sodomy. The following is a direct quote from POPE ST. PIUS V. No Catholic is at liberty to disagree with this declaration.

"That horrible crime, on account of which corrupt and obscene cities were destroyed by fire through divine condemnation, causes us most bitter sorrow and shocks our mind, impelling us to repress such a crime with the greatest possible zeal.

Quite opportunely the Fifth Lateran Council [1512-1517] issued this decree: “Let any member of the clergy caught in that vice against nature, given that the wrath of God falls over the sons of perfidy, be removed from the clerical order or forced to do penance in a monastery” (chap. 4, X, V, 31).

So that the contagion of such a grave offense may not advance with greater audacity by taking advantage of impunity, which is the greatest incitement to sin, and so as to more severely punish the clerics who are guilty of this nefarious crime and who are not frightened by the death of their souls, we determine that they should be handed over to the severity of the secular authority, which enforces civil law.

Therefore, wishing to pursue with greater rigor than we have exerted since the beginning of our pontificate, we establish that any priest or member of the clergy, either secular or regular, who commits such an execrable crime, by force of the present law be deprived of every clerical privilege, of every post, dignity and ecclesiastical benefit, and having been degraded by an ecclesiastical judge, let him be immediately delivered to the secular authority to be put to death, as mandated by law as the fitting punishment for laymen who have sunk into this abyss."

traditioninaction.org/religious/n009rp_HomosexualPriests.htm

What proof do you have that this was instituted with the effect of doctrinal infallibility? Not every encyclical from the papal state is infallible, you know.

 

[EdmundPaul]

english.pravda.ru/society/stories/01-07-2013/124994-adopted_child_sex_slave-0/
I would say Russia is very concerned

 

[HansTrappist]

It is interesting to note that prior to 1973, Homosexuality was regarded as a socially destructive mental disease that was curable. It was only after the pornographer and gay rights activist Frank Kameny lobbied the APA into reclassifying homosexual activity as “normal sex” that things started going to hell.

 

[SMGS127]

english.pravda.ru/society/stories/01-07-2013/124994-adopted_child_sex_slave-0/
I would say Russia is very concerned

Oh look! A heterosexual!

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/publiccatholic/files/2013/04/Kermit_Gosnell_25.jpg

…and another heterosexual!

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/...KKjfhgwaG-gxJlXn_YB6eSpR8B50hMN8QD9ih1KsjiRqw

and hey, a Catholic!

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/...C-l1AX5XLKRIAjpTL0Z5QZD-IR9klY3GurUvfSoFtSbmC

Man if heterosexuals are this bad, and Catholics are THAT bad, heterosexual Catholics must be so much worse. Keep heterosexual Catholics away from your children; they’re trying to kill them!!

Do you see why using one case of bad acts isn’t typical of an entire group?

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Do you not understand how vitriol harms these LGBT youth? I wish nothing more but to warm the hearts of those who see gay people as nothing but evil & perverse.

I think this is where your problem is. You constantly talk about hate. Opposition to homosexual lifestyles is not all vitriol. Maybe you have only experienced attitudes that gay people are evil. But that is not how everybody thinks. Most of us would like to get along without this issue dividing people the way it is now. I think that most of us would like to live free of homosexuality being showed down our throats all the time, and to once again live without the aggressive pro-gay propaganda in society.

And this is where we go back to the Russian case. Because this is what it is all about. You talk about support groups, loving environments, etc. Great. Carry on helping. But that is a completely different thing from a country wishing to restrict gay activists (both homosexual and heterosexual) from doing what they have achieved in the west. And I applaud that initiative. Because when I talk about children being indoctrinated, I don’t mean that homosexuals want the kids to all turn gay. I mean normalisation of this disorder. You can’t deny that this is the goal.

I see that this is such a personal topic for you and you are on a crusade. I find it all a bit sad and don’t think that a reasonable conversation is possible here.

 

[SMGS127]

I think this is where your problem is. You constantly talk about hate. Opposition to homosexual lifestyles is not all vitriol. Maybe you have only experienced attitudes that gay people are evil. But that is not how everybody thinks. Most of us would like to get along without this issue dividing people the way it is now. I think that most of us would like to live free of homosexuality being showed down our throats all the time, and to once again live without the aggressive pro-gay propaganda in society.

I am opposed to gay behavior too; obviously I know that’s not vitriol. I’m talking about the comments in this thread that talk about gays as predators. That IS vitriol. And I’m sorry that the 2% of the community that is referred to as “militant” makes our lives as Catholics more inundated with homosexual things. I don’t think that means the other 98% should deserve to be grouped as predatory. And by the way, most of the people (with the exception of Ryan Murphy) who direct these TV shows are straight! They exploit the gay community as much as they annoy the straights.

And this is where we go back to the Russian case. Because this is what it is all about. You talk about support groups, loving environments, etc. Great. Carry on helping. But that is a completely different thing from a country wishing to restrict gay activists (both homosexual and heterosexual) from doing what they have achieved in the west. And I applaud that initiative. Because when I talk about children being indoctrinated, I don’t mean that homosexuals want the kids to all turn gay. I mean normalisation of this disorder. You can’t deny that this is the goal.

Considering that Russia currently doesn’t prosecute gang rapes and beatings of homosexuals, I would be fine, as a Catholic, with gays talking to each other online there. I am fine with gay youth talking about their desires. I am fine with support groups propping up to help people cope with SSAs. The disorder IS normal. Gay people are just the same as anyone else, they just have an extra thing in SSAs to struggle with.

Now if you’re talking about the normalization of gay relationships, which is completely different, would you rather have a society where gays were brutally attacked all the time (and by the way, still acting on their desires in secret) or a society where gays were treated like every day human beings and you could have the ability to teach your son or daughter right from wrong without him/her thinking you hated them if they had SSAs? The first is Russia. The second is America. I would argue that America, despite its free speech faults that allow for the very small subset of militant gays to try to infiltrate schools, is still a significantly more moral place than Russia, which believes that gays have less-than-human status.

I see that this is such a personal topic for you and you are on a crusade. I find it all a bit sad and don’t think that a reasonable conversation is possible here.

I am hardly on a crusade. Don’t try to demean my argument through condescending wordplay.

I do agree with your second sentence though. I find it sad and think there can’t be a reasonable conversation with people who believe that people should be locked in jail for discussing their attractions to members of the same sex, holding hands with members of the same sex, or helping to counsel someone who is fighting same-sex desires. I feel like I’m discussing the issue with Mormons/Muslims/Baptists/Puritans, not Catholics.

The fact that you see nothing wrong with endangering the safety of gay youth in a totalitarian country because you’re angry at a kindergarten book and American media tells a lot, I would say.