Gays May Be Prosecuted at 2014 Olympics

[StudentMI]

CNN had a news item saying that people around the world are hitting back at Russian businesses because of their “anti-gay” laws. Then they showed a few people in California pouring Russian vodka down the drain.

What I don’t understand about this, and I didn’t understand when Bill O’Reilly poured French wine into the gutter back in 2003 or so, is why it would matter what they did with it? They had to buy it in the first place. It’s a profit either way to the manufacturer, and the store that sold it.

 

[Tucker_R]

Considering it was already purchased. LOL.

 

[Slavonic]

Russian lawmakers have already decriminalized homosexuality (acts and behavior done in private) in 1993. They deemed it best to recently ban homosexual propaganda and displays of homosexuality (in public). Would be violators are warned they will be penalized. Accordingly, one reason for the crackdown in Russia is because it population has been steadily falling since the early nineties. It shrank from 148.6 million in 1993 to 141.9 million in 2010, as reported by the Russian Federal State Statistics Service.

Population decline is a ridiculous reason. It simply rests on the silly idea that pro-gay means anti-straight. Nothing could be farther from the truth. It’s a lazy pseudo-argument for for those who hold anti-gay sentiments.

It is one thing to use the force of law in coming after active or homosexual practitioners, catching them in personally and morally decided acts in the privacy of their homes. That would be intrusive and unreasonable policing, violation of personal freedom. Persecution, no doubt.

Russian society is not accepting of displays of homosexuality in the streets, compared to the U.S. and Western countries that have enacted widened gay rights, which had its start in the decriminalization of homosexuality, effective removal of discrimination based on sexual orientation at work, economic and social situations, etc., leading up to legal gay “marriage” in more and more countries. The resistance of Russia to expanded gay rights is not a surprise given the alliance of the Russian Orthodox Church and political leadership against gay “marriage” and placement of Russian kids in same sex homes. Russia is a sovereign nation with self determination as to the laws she deems suited for her society.

Since the prohibition of homosexual propaganda is a recent Russian law, they have defined it as propaganda of nontraditional sexual relations to minors, with penalties for those who express views in the news media and online. No gay pride rallies.

There are things like technology that can go global without resistance by local or regional people. Not new practices that would run counter to social or religious values formed by a people’s history and culture.

This law effectively shuts down the mechanism by which LGBT Russians could bring about positive-change in their society. It muzzles their ability to counter long-held ‘traditional’ misconceptions of LGBT people. You are correct that such social movements cannot be easily exported. The fight is one that must be fought by LGBT Russians themselves. They should be allowed to fight it. And I hope they continue to fight it despite the government’s attempt to stop them.

The "Think of the children’ sentiment is also bogus. If a child can handle knowing straight people exist, they can handle knowing LGBT people exist. The child I’d be concerned for is the child that one day, between the ages of 13-18, realizes he or she is LGBT and they are stuck in a Russia where there was no LGBT movement to make a better world for him or her.

Talk about something to really complain about, like the practice of one’s faith.

My brother was not happy that he had to leave his gold necklace with a cross pendant behind, which he was wearing for many years, before entering Saudi Arabia for a two year IT work contract with a multinational company headquartered in Riyadh. But he did not gripe about it. His then girlfriend now wife was a flight attendant for an airline servicing the Middle East. It bothered her that she could not attend Mass on Sundays while stationed in SA, as there is no open practice of any faith except for Islam. Both put up with the local rules and when their assignments were finished, they left.

It would seem that LGBT pressure groups outside Russia have little or nothing to complain as to how Russians want to stem gay influence via legislation. 80% of Russians are not receptive to open homosexuality. Sure, life there is far from perfect and abuses against homosexuals need to be addressed. It is still their country.

The concern for Olympians is a minor concern, but some may wish to do something for their LGBT brethren in Russia. I, and I assume many others, are concerned not so much for visitors, but for LGBT people in Russia. Russia is there country too. They need to have the ability to stand up for themselves. To relate to your story, imagine a Christian in Saudi Arabia who had to spend his or her entire life there. Being a visitor and being a native are two different things.

 

[holyrood]

I, and I assume many others, are concerned not so much for visitors, but for LGBT people in Russia. Russia is there country too. They need to have the ability to stand up for themselves.

Talking to someone else’s children about homosexuality has absolutely no connection to ‘standing up for yourself.’

Here’s an idea: how about all LGBT people may teach their own children what they please about homosexuality. And leave other people’s children alone.

I repeat, in past days, this was what we called ‘creeper’ and ‘stranger danger.’ There is no reason whatsoever for ANYONE to be talking to my children about two men or two women getting sexual together.

It is not their place to be propagandizing other people’s children.

 

[Tucker_R]

You got that right! :clapping:

Talking to someone else’s children about homosexuality has absolutely no connection to ‘standing up for yourself.’

Here’s an idea: how about all LGBT people may teach their own children what they please about homosexuality. And leave other people’s children alone.

I repeat, in past days, this was what we called ‘creeper’ and ‘stranger danger.’ There is no reason whatsoever for ANYONE to be talking to my children about two men or two women getting sexual together.

It is not their place to be propagandizing other people’s children.

 

[Slavonic]

Talking to someone else’s children about homosexuality has absolutely no connection to ‘standing up for yourself.’

Here’s an idea: how about all LGBT people may teach their own children what they please about homosexuality. And leave other people’s children alone.

I repeat, in past days, this was what we called ‘creeper’ and ‘stranger danger.’ There is no reason whatsoever for ANYONE to be talking to my children about two men or two women getting sexual together.

It is not their place to be propagandizing other people’s children.

That’s nice.

Now, do you actually want to talk about LGBT activism? Or do you just want to smear them as perverts and talk about some 1970’s “gay recruiter” fear mongering? I can see why you would prefer the latter. Because the LGBT rights movement didn’t get where it is today by talking to some random child.

 

[holyrood]

That’s nice.

Now, do you actually want to talk about LGBT activism? Or do you just want to smear them as perverts and talk about some 1970’s “gay recruiter” fear mongering? I can see why you would prefer the latter. Because the LGBT rights movement didn’t get where it is today by talking to some random child.

How condescending. But then, that’s how liberals typically work, by condescending and calling names.

Let’s go back to what this ban is about:

MOSCOW – In Russia it is now illegal to even speak about homosexuality around minors, much less openly display gay pride. Technically the ban is against “propaganda of nontraditional sexual relations” around minors, .

abcnews.go.com/International/russian-lawmaker-suggests-gay-athletes-prosecuted-2014-winter/story?id=19829868

Minors–that would be children. It’s illegal there to talk to children about homosexuality. Do you disagree? Do you think that people should be speaking to children, other than their own about homosexuality? I don’t. I notice you equate my statement about talking to children about homosexuality with ‘pervert.’ Do *you * consider it perverted?

I agree with you, they didn’t get where they are today by just randomly talking to random children on the street. They pushed their way into schools and sex ed and all over sit coms, and a number of other things to make sure everybody knew, at a very young age about homosexuality. The fact that it wasn’t ‘random children’ doesn’t change anything. The fact that it’s a person being paid by Planned Parenthood doesn’t change anything. This should have been left as a matter for parents to raise their own children.

And I maintain that the new law in Russia has NOTHING ZILCH NADA ZERO to do with ‘standing up for yourself.’ Talking to children about homosexuality has NOTHING to do with ‘standing up for yourself.’

 

[Tucker_R]

Nice deflection there. Whether you want to believe it or not… it is perverted an an affront to God.

That’s nice.

Now, do you actually want to talk about LGBT activism? Or do you just want to smear them as perverts and talk about some 1970’s “gay recruiter” fear mongering? I can see why you would prefer the latter. Because the LGBT rights movement didn’t get where it is today by talking to some random child.

 

[edwest2]

There is no uniform gay community, just as there is no uniform Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Black, Hispanic, or Asian community. People are individuals; they do not think alike even though they share certain characteristics. Outside observers tend to group people homogeneously based on their apparent characteristics and focus on the leaders and proponents featured in the media since these are most salient. However, they do not really represent the silent majority who just want to lead their lives in peace and harmony away from the glare and spotlight of politics.

That is incorrect. I could provide a list of national and international gay activist groups. There is only one goal: gay sex redefined as marriage. There is no silent majority. A minority, maybe.

Peace,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

How funny! It’s amazing how our MSM picks and chooses what they cover. You can have 1000000 at a Pro Life March and it barely gets a mention. But three gay activists pour vodka down the drain and every alphabet soup channel is on the spot.

Russia/Putin are clearly enjoying their ability to tweak the amatuer in the White House. This is just another way of slaughtering another of Obama’s sacred cows. They are laughing at us…

Lisa

Lisa,

The Leftist propaganda machine in the US has only one job - convince people that what is disordered is OK. By any means necessary.

Peace,
Ed

 

[Tucker_R]

And if I may add one thing… what is normal is disordered. Or so it seems to me.

Lisa,

The Leftist propaganda machine in the US has only one job - convince people that what is disordered is OK. By any means necessary.

Peace,
Ed

 

[edwest2]

And if I may add one thing… what is normal is disordered. Or so it seems to me.

That’s right. Traditional families never existed, by the way. Now we have dysfunctional characters modeling disordered behaviors in movies, on TV, in books - you name it. Like the opening song from Family Guy: “Those values on which we used to rely.” Flushed down the toilet so we can be taught how to wallow in the mud. And just accept it.

God forbid,
Ed

 

[meltzerboy]

That is incorrect. I could provide a list of national and international gay activist groups. There is only one goal: gay sex redefined as marriage. There is no silent majority. A minority, maybe.

Peace,
Ed

How many gay people are members of these groups, or have even heard of them, compared to the number of gay people who are not? More gay people are just not that concerned with politics.

 

[InSearchofGrace]

 

[jmcrae]

That’s nice.

Now, do you actually want to talk about LGBT activism? Or do you just want to smear them as perverts and talk about some 1970’s “gay recruiter” fear mongering? I can see why you would prefer the latter. Because the LGBT rights movement didn’t get where it is today by talking to some random child.

Of course not. But there was a focused effort to make it seem normal in churches

I actually remember a workshop at our Protestant church on homosexuality in the early 80s in which the goal was openly to make homosexuality seem normal, and I remember that it was framed as a justice issue in which it was a “sin against justice” (an actual quote from the faciliator) to consider the sex acts of homosexuals to be sinful.

 

[Slavonic]

How condescending. But then, that’s how liberals typically work, by condescending and calling names.

Let’s go back to what this ban is about:

For starters let’s, look at the whole paragraph.

abcnews.go.com/International/russian-lawmaker-suggests-gay-athletes-prosecuted-2014-winter/story?id=19829868

In Russia it is now illegal to even speak about homosexuality around minors, much less openly display gay pride. Technically the ban is against “propaganda of nontraditional sexual relations” around minors, but the implication for openly gay individuals is clear. Public displays of affection by gays, including holding hands or displaying symbols like a rainbow flag, are now banned.

See, it’s about ‘protecting children’ in name only because: a) It actually criminalizes any public identification of LGBT identity or action any that lead anyone to conclude a person is of LGBT identity and, b) None of that stuff is actually a threat to children.

And I maintain that the new law in Russia has NOTHING ZILCH NADA ZERO to do with ‘standing up for yourself.’ Talking to children about homosexuality has NOTHING to do with ‘standing up for yourself.’

Yes it does because it shuts down the mechanism by which LGBT have achieved rights in the rest of the world. They’ve done though coming out, through protests, through organizing, through banding together, through pride parades and through lobbying and legislative action. All of that is now severely hindered in Russia.

 

[edwest2]

How many gay people are members of these groups, or have even heard of them, compared to the number of gay people who are not? More gay people are just not that concerned with politics.

You’ll have to prove that and explain the 24/7 gay propaganda machine.

Peace,
Ed

 

[AuntyP]

Yes it does because it shuts down the mechanism by which LGBT have achieved rights in the rest of the world. They’ve done though coming out, through protests, through organizing, through banding together, through pride parades and through lobbying and legislative action. All of that is now severely hindered in Russia.

Well thanks be to God for small mercies. Putin has seen what happened in the US and Europe and is heading them off at the pass. I wish our politicians had his foresight.

 

[jmcrae]

For starters let’s, look at the whole paragraph.

In Russia it is now illegal to even speak about homosexuality around minors, much less openly display gay pride. Technically the ban is against “propaganda of nontraditional sexual relations” around minors, but the implication for openly gay individuals is clear. Public displays of affection by gays, including holding hands or displaying symbols like a rainbow flag, are now banned.

The author is only speculating that it means people can’t hold hands. Obviously if they are holding hands and making googly eyes at each other, someone might have cause to complain, but if two people of the same sex are walking down the street hand in hand to keep from getting separated in a busy crowd, no one will be upset by that.

Yes it does because it shuts down the mechanism by which LGBT have achieved rights in the rest of the world. They’ve done though coming out, through protests, through organizing, through banding together, through pride parades and through lobbying and legislative action. All of that is now severely hindered in Russia.

I expect that that’s actually the whole point.

They don’t want homosexuals forming a “community”, or to be going around demanding privileges beyond the ordinary rights of citizens that they already have. They don’t want to redefine marriage, or normalize the homosexual lifestyle as one option among many for young people to choose from.

 

[edwest2]

For starters let’s, look at the whole paragraph.

See, it’s about ‘protecting children’ in name only because: a) It actually criminalizes any public identification of LGBT identity or action any that lead anyone to conclude a person is of LGBT identity and, b) None of that stuff is actually a threat to children.

Yes it does because it shuts down the mechanism by which LGBT have achieved rights in the rest of the world. They’ve done though coming out, through protests, through organizing, through banding together, through pride parades and through lobbying and legislative action. All of that is now severely hindered in Russia.

I hope the same thing happens in the United States. No, gays are not criminals and they should not be harmed or threatened or bullied, but if 5 year old kids get gay marriage books in school, that is OK? Never.

There is another poster here trying to sell the idea that most gays are not involved with this. You have spoken accurately. Who is stopping gays from living how they want in Russia? Nobody. It’s not a crime to be gay. All they want is gay sex to be called marriage.

God forbid,
Ed