Gays May Be Prosecuted at 2014 Olympics

[gnosisofthomas]

I know in which of those sentence I am seeing true love and respect for others as human beings. I know in which I see true dignity and compassion given to others, even those who disagree with him.

Maybe you see “true love and respect” in an isolated sentence, but it certainly isn’t respectful to say that homosexual love is not equal to heterosexual love.

Your attempt at summarizing what I said in your brackets wasn’t so much a summary as it was a completely different statement. This isn’t a mere difference of opinion.

One can cloak one’s support for Russia’s law in all the religious reasoning one chooses, but at the end of the day, it comes down to finding homosexuality disgusting. This law, and those who support it, don’t want to hear about, see, or think about homosexuality. Apparently holding hands or giving someone a kiss leads them to imagine everything a couple does in bed together. It’s funny – do you think about heterosexual couples having sex whenever you see them walking around in public with their children? After all, everyone knows what they did to create those children in the first place.

 

[holyrood]

Maybe you see “true love and respect” in an isolated sentence, but it certainly isn’t respectful to say that homosexual love is not equal to heterosexual love.

Your attempt at summarizing what I said in your brackets wasn’t so much a summary as it was a completely different statement. This isn’t a mere difference of opinion.

One can cloak one’s support for Russia’s law in all the religious reasoning one chooses, but at the end of the day, it comes down to finding homosexuality disgusting. This law, and those who support it, don’t want to hear about, see, or think about homosexuality. Apparently holding hands or giving someone a kiss leads them to imagine everything a couple does in bed together. It’s funny – do you think about heterosexual couples having sex whenever you see them walking around in public with their children? After all, everyone knows what they did to create those children in the first place.

Calling someone a child of God absolutely is an expression of love.

I’m sorry, but ‘respectful’ obviously in this case is in the eye of the beholder. By ‘respect’ what you really mean–it seems–is that everybody must agree with you. Agreement and respect are not the same thing.

It’s been stated often enough on these forums why someone would say that homosexual ‘love’ is not equal to heterosexual love. Are we supposed to not speak the truth in the mistaken belief that that equals ‘respect?’

Do you find NAMBLA’s man-boy love to be equal to man-man love? Do you find a woman’s love for her roller coaster (a recent story about a woman who wanted to marry a roller coaster) equivalent to the love between two men? Do you feel that you should say those things are equal, out of respect for those people?

 

[gnosisofthomas]

It’s been stated often enough on these forums why someone would say that homosexual ‘love’ is not equal to heterosexual love. Are we supposed to not speak the truth in the mistaken belief that that equals ‘respect?’

You’re right, it has been stated often enough. But I also can’t help but speak the truth when I hear such a mistaken belief.

Do you find NAMBLA’s man-boy love to be equal to man-man love? Do you find a woman’s love for her roller coaster (a recent story about a woman who wanted to marry a roller coaster) equivalent to the love between two men? Do you feel that you should say those things are equal, out of respect for those people?

Man/boy love and woman/roller coaster love cannot be equal relationships. It’s safe to assume that a roller coaster is incapable of feeling love; and a young boy is not mature enough to understand romantic love. Both of these “relationships” describe an inequality between the lover and the beloved. However, in both heterosexual and homosexual adult relationships there is an equality between the individuals involved. That’s what makes homosexual relationships equal to heterosexual ones, and also makes it impossible to compare homosexual relationships to pedophilia and objectum sexuality.

 

[holyrood]

You’re right, it has been stated often enough. But I also can’t help but speak the truth when I hear such a mistaken belief.

Man/boy love and woman/roller coaster love cannot be equal relationships. It’s safe to assume that a roller coaster is incapable of feeling love; and a young boy is not mature enough to understand romantic love. Both of these “relationships” describe an inequality between the lover and the beloved. However, in both heterosexual and homosexual adult relationships there is an equality between the individuals involved. That’s what makes homosexual relationships equal to heterosexual ones, and also makes it impossible to compare homosexual relationships to pedophilia and objectum sexuality.

Ah, yes, you have reasons why your dismissal of their love is Truth, not Disrespect.

And the fact that anyone else has reasons why they feel man-man ‘love’ is not equal is simply not valid. Because you said so.

If a supporter of NAMBLA were here on the forum, you realize he’d be saying the exact same things to you: You are disrespectful. It’s terrible that you find his love ‘disgusting,’ or not equal. And he can’t help but speak the truth when he hears such statements as yours, disrespecting his love.

What is it that makes you more right than those on this forum, and also more right than the NAMBLA supporter who would be saying the exact same things to you that you’re saying to us?

Sort of a side note, but I have a lot of liberal friends and acquaintances and I don’t know whether to laugh or cry when they speak out very forcefully against bigamy, or polyamory, or open marriages, or incest, yet decry anyone who makes the mildest objection to homosexuality. As far as I can tell the moral standard and authority by which they abide is whatever they approve of must be right. By what *authority *do you declare that homosexual and heterosexual love is equal but pederasty is not?

 

[gnosisofthomas]

By what *authority *do you declare that homosexual and heterosexual love is equal but pederasty is not?

My conscience. And reason.

If you could convince me that a child is perfectly capable of understanding the complexities of a romantic relationship, and isn’t being manipulated by an adult who is taking advantage of the fact that his mental processes are not fully formed yet – then maybe I wouldn’t have such a problem with it. But since an adult and a child are not on equal playing ground mentally, I’m not convinced it’s comparable to homosexuality.

 

[andrewstx]

Maybe you see “true love and respect” in an isolated sentence, but it certainly isn’t respectful to say that homosexual love is not equal to heterosexual love.

Your attempt at summarizing what I said in your brackets wasn’t so much a summary as it was a completely different statement. This isn’t a mere difference of opinion.

One can cloak one’s support for Russia’s law in all the religious reasoning one chooses, but at the end of the day, it comes down to finding homosexuality disgusting. This law, and those who support it, don’t want to hear about, see, or think about homosexuality. Apparently holding hands or giving someone a kiss leads them to imagine everything a couple does in bed together. It’s funny – do you think about heterosexual couples having sex whenever you see them walking around in public with their children? After all, everyone knows what they did to create those children in the first place.

Why is it that active homosexuals, like yourself always belong to unusual spiritualities? Like yourself, a gnostic? Other aqaintences I have had who are active homosexuals never are orthodox Christians. They are almost uniformly Gnostics or New Agers, Wiccans, pagans, but never orthodox Christians.

Why is this?

Sorry for the misspellings, I have had a bad stroke and I am not capable of any kind of sexuality.

 

[gnosisofthomas]

Why is it that active homosexuals, like yourself always belong to unusual spiritualities? Like yourself, a gnostic? Other aqaintences I have had who are active homosexuals never are orthodox Christians. They are almost uniformly Gnostics or New Agers, Wiccans, pagans, but never orthodox Christians.

Why is this?

Sorry for the misspellings, I have had a bad stroke and I am not capable of any kind of sexuality.

I can’t speak for everyone, but orthodox Christians make us feel unwelcome. After leaving and rejecting Christianity altogether for several years, Gnosticism was the only thing that brought me back to Christ.

That’s not the only reason I’m Gnostic though… There are open and affirming churches out there I could join, I just don’t believe in orthodox dogma. But the reasons I’m Gnostic and not something else are highly off topic, so I’ll leave it at that.

 

[gnosisofthomas]

Why is it that active homosexuals, like yourself always belong to unusual spiritualities? Like yourself, a gnostic? Other aqaintences I have had who are active homosexuals never are orthodox Christians. They are almost uniformly Gnostics or New Agers, Wiccans, pagans, but never orthodox Christians.

In fairness though, I know many Protestant and a few Catholic and Orthodox gay people. By and large, most of the gay people I know are outright atheists or agnostics, which I think is sad. I’ve never been non-religious myself… I’ve always believed in God, even when I couldn’t in good conscience associate myself with Christians. Many gay people, at least where I’m from, are completely repulsed by religion and can’t understand how I can be clergy and gay.

 

[Darryl1958]

It’s cool, I’m not welcome there anyway, so I’m not particularly concerned. I’m not saying anything in an attempt to be ofensive or demeaning. I’m just recognizing the similarities in some of the events.

There is no similarity of events between the Nazi genocide and what is happening in Russia.

I have never been to Russia, but I imagine civility over there is welcomed, and incivility is not. Most places are like that.
It is the grosses of incivilities to insinuate that those that disagree with you are Nazis. It is an evil that has grown like a cancer in the West that this is how people who stand for traditional or conservative values of any kind are treated. As such, conservatives ironically demonstrate a little sympathy even for Putin and Russia when they stand against this slander.

 

[andrewstx]

I can’t speak for everyone, but orthodox Christians make us feel unwelcome. After leaving and rejecting Christianity altogether for several years, Gnosticism was the only thing that brought me back to Christ.

That’s not the only reason I’m Gnostic though… There are open and affirming churches out there I could join, I just don’t believe in orthodox dogma. But the reasons I’m Gnostic and not something else are highly off topic, so I’ll leave it at that.

Not all or even many. Orthodox Christians do not dislike those with same sex attractions. We support and even pray for them to be able to keep the chastity that belongs to all Christians, regardless of their sexuality.

I have always had the feeling that gays think mistakenly that Christianity hates them, and perhaps from spite hate Christians back?

 

[Darryl1958]

Not all or even many. Orthodox Christians do not dislike those with same sex attractions. We support and even pray for them to be able to keep the chastity that belongs to all Christians, regardless of their sexuality.

I have always had the feeling that gays think mistakenly that Christianity hates them, and perhaps from spite hate Christians back?

One very compelling reason put forth as to why anti semitism has been a constant for thousands of years is that the world hates the Jews because the world hate the ethical monotheism that Jews introduced to the world. What could be more grating on the pride than to understand that we do not live for ourselves and our own reasons, but that we have been created by a loving God in order to dedicate ourselves to each other, like he does for us

The hatred that many, if not most, homosexuals feel for Christians, even over and above the riff-raff that do actual physical violence against them, is very much directed at the Christian message, which is the same message delivered to Moses all those years ago.

I don’t think that the hatred is based in a mistake, but in a very real understanding of the Christian message, and the same anger and resentment that have always been there against that message ever since Pharaoh recognized that he was not God, but a sinner, and balked.

 

[Darryl1958]

It is quite a pertinent point to consider, actually.

If Andrew is correct, and the hatred that homosexuals have against Christians is based in a mistake that Christians are mean, then the solution is to try to be nicer.

But if I am correct, and it is the message that is being rejected, whether or not we are nice or is beside the point, and will not change anything.

 

[gam197]

Russian President Putin bans any rallies in Sochi before and during 2014 Olympic Games

Russian authorities have repeatedly denied gay activists’ applications to set up a Pride House in Sochi during the games, but Alexeyev said he would apply for permission to hold a gay pride rally in Sochi on the opening day of the games anyway.

washingtonpost.com/world/europe/putin-orders-to-ban-rallies-in-sochi-1-month-before-and-during-games/2013/08/23/63951d94-0c00-11e3-89fe-abb4a5067014_story.html?

There will be no end to this until the games begin. Aaargh!

 

[estesbob]

For one who’s first 40 years of life encompasses the cold war it is interesting indeed that I now admire the President of Russia more than I do the President of the United States

 

[Publisher]

Why is it that active homosexuals, like yourself always belong to unusual spiritualities? Like yourself, a gnostic? Other aqaintences I have had who are active homosexuals never are orthodox Christians. They are almost uniformly Gnostics or New Agers, Wiccans, pagans, but never orthodox Christians.

Why is this?

Sorry for the misspellings, I have had a bad stroke and I am not capable of any kind of sexuality.

Those gay people I personally know who continue practicing their faith do so within “orthodox Christianity” Those that are serious about their faith have struggled to know and follow the will of God within the frame work of their childhood faiths. Some have been badly treated by their co-religionists acquainted Those who have chosen to follow Christ do so with joy and hope.

However many of my other straight friends are no longer Xian but have four peace and joy outside Xianitu…why is that?. .

 

[Publisher]

Not all or even many. Orthodox Christians do not dislike those with same sex attractions. We support and even pray for them to be able to keep the chastity that belongs to all Christians, regardless of their sexuality.

I have always had the feeling that gays think mistakenly that Christianity hates them, and perhaps from spite hate Christians back?

Gee I wonder why most gays think they"re hated and unwelcome? Surly it must be them…it could never be how they’re treated and spoken to by church goers could it?

 

[estesbob]

Gee I wonder why most gays think they"re hated and unwelcome? Surly it must be them…it could never be how they’re treated and spoken to by church goers could it?

Not in my Church. How about yours?

 

[Darryl1958]

Maybe the Quaker church goers are especially hateful toward gays.

Catholics church goers are not.

 

[Publisher]

Maybe the Quaker church goers are especially hateful toward gays.

Catholics church goers are not.

The Presiding Clerk of my Meeting is a lesbian and her partner is Recording Clerk. Both loving Christian women

 

[Darryl1958]

The Presiding Clerk of my Meeting is a lesbian and her partner is Recording Clerk. Both loving Christian women

Well then, your sarcasm in the post that initiated this conversation is not true of the Quaker church either, by your own testimony.