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estesbob
Guest
When did the Quakers decide homosexual behavior was OK?
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andrewstx
Guest
By orthodox I did not mean the Orthodox church at all. I meant ordinary Trinity believing Christians, sorry for any confusion.
I have no idea what “Xianitu” might mean.
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andrewstx
Guest
I think that Christians in this area who are nearly unamously fundamentalist are reacting to the teachings they had as children, that and the “clobber verses” typically used against them.
Surrounded by fundamentalists and tea party Republicans they apparently have no idea of the main-line Protestants that surround them who are much less judgemental.
In my West Texas town we have 1 Catholic parish and no zero main-line churches. Everyone is fundamentalist.
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Jeffrey_David
Guest
Agreed. Who woulda thought it.
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Darryl1958
Guest
Vladimir Putin is a greater force for good in the world today than Barack Obama. Americans have opted out of being a force for good in the world through electing such a man. The world will suffer greatly as a result of that.
Russia has almost reached the point of no return in their demographic crash. The only source of hope possible for Russia is a return to the Christian values of orthodox Christianity. Putin is intelligent enough to recognize that, and he deserves support from Christians limited to that part of his agenda, at least.
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estesbob
Guest
Not "reacting"to anything.mearly affirming 2000 years of teachings of our Church.
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Darryl1958
Guest
What is missing in main-line Protestantism, and the Catholic left is not tolerance for what has always been understood to be sin, but a tolerance for truth.
Bottom line, our sexual expressions are only limited by our imagination, and the human imagination has no limits. Healthy, functional sexuality on the other hand is critical for our survival as a culture.
Fundies with clobber verses are doing something that mainline Christians are not.
They are actually procreating in numbers large enough to sustain the culture.
My own understanding of God is not that he is picking those verses out of his butt in order
to clobber homosexuals over the head with, or make us all suffer by placing limits on the most powerful pleasures available to us. One does not even have to be particularly religious to understand the need for directing our human sexuality into healthy directions or dissuading sexual expressions that vary too widely from the norm.
The mistake in the West is that homosexuality is portrayed as being somehow different than the norm. In truth, it is the same. It is just another subset of personal sexual behaviors that is directed toward oneself and ones personal sexual fulfillment rather than creating a social institution that is capable of procreating and maintaining the next generation.
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gam197
Guest
. .
Had to figure out language.
Xian=
This is an abbreviation for the word Christian. It comes from the Greek name for Christ, Xristos, and is essentially the same notation as we commonly see with Xmas.
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InSearchofGrace
Guest
I agree.
It is not how one starts, maybe winning struggles in the middle, but how one ends. The same, I would think, for civilization.
In a party I attended years ago while visiting Hamburg, I found myself in the interesting company of some well traveled Germans. In a moment of serious conversation, we had a discussion in passing of their history that brought shame to the great German people. How did the nation’s generation in the 40’s, as one of them said, shaking his head, an intelligent, most prosperous and advanced technologically nation end up, mesmerized by Adolf Hitler? [It can be said that there is a parallel with Americans now who seem to be completely enamored of Obama - key people in the political system buying his message on abortion and gay “marriage,” that such are good for all.] The topic later moved to half jokes about the increasing Turkish population, gastarbeiters initially, that would one day rule Germans in their own country, as another said, because Germans stopped having babies! Well, when where there is a vacuum, is it really a surprise that something else moves in?
It appears the trend has not stopped as Muslim immigrants are continuously populating that part of the world in great numbers, the phenomenon repeating in other countries in Western Europe. What is common? Birth rates not producing replacement of the aging and dying of the native population, along with the native population eschewing traditional and religious values. As a matter of fact, in my tour of Germany, France and England, it was sad to see empty beautiful churches, with only so few attending Sunday Mass.
Putin’s Russia may just have woken up to the fact that demography is destiny and it is better to stop the incursion of novel secular ideas to their shores. True, homosexuality has existed across time and cultures, but it has not been long that the door to re-definition of marriage and family has been opened in our society.
I don’t think anybody really wants to stop gays from carrying on with their short term or long term partners. This gay “marriage” and normalization of homosexuality is something else, however, that has profound social implications.
Not all traditions need be destroyed. Not all fences need to be taken down.
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andrewstx
Guest
Ah but I am an Orthodox Catholic and no bible idol worshipping fundamentalist. You have to be here or any Southern Fundamentalist small town to understand.
No diversity is allowed here at all, if you are not a fundamentalist Protestant, tea party, rodeo fan, you just don’t fit in and you are ignored. There is one radio station plays exclusively blue grass OLD country. Everyone dresses the same, cowboy with boots and hats, drinks wet and votes dry. And aside from a few snuff dippers they all smoke the same brand of cigarettes that their faith bans.
It also helps a lot to have been born here and live here your whole life.
And… our church has never taught that SSA is sinful, only active homosexuality.
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andrewstx
Guest
I understand that Xtian is a word used by new agers, pagans, wiccans, atheists and others to poke fun at Christians for daring to be so ‘old fashioned’.. .
Had to figure out language.
Xian=
This is an abbreviation for the word Christian. It comes from the Greek name for Christ, Xristos, and is essentially the same notation as we commonly see with Xmas.
I still don’t know what xianitu could mean though.
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Monkey1976
Guest
A “futuristic” roller-disco?
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andrewstx
Guest
From what I have read here on CA you can easily get the impression that the church condemns all with SSA. Even the ones who keep the chastity laws of the church.
Reading here one get’s the impression that the church is against all with SSA. That is not true and has not been taught be the church for 2,000 years. It has never been taught by the church and will never be taught by the church…ever.
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estesbob
Guest
I don’t see how you could come to that conclusion reading this thread. We are talking about a law forbidding promotion of homosexual behavior. That is very much in line with the teachings of the Church
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SMGS127
Guest
No you’re talking about a law that effectively prohibits homosexual behavior of any kind, discussion of same sex attractions in any public forum, including the Internet (with even more severe penalties for the Internet), or aid to anyone struggling with SSA.
A law that bans the It Gets Better project is inherently idiotic and (in my opinion) anti-Catholic.
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andrewstx
Guest
I did not get that impression reading only this thread. Just a few short months ago there were people posting in social justice who were chaste and had SSA.
They were all chased away by individuals with an intense pathogenic dislike for all who have SSA. And this included chaste people who were living by church law.
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estesbob
Guest
Could you link us to some of these posts? My experience is that homosexuals who come here often conflate SSA-a disorder, with homosexual behavior, a sin. Or identify as “gay” or " homosexual" but never clarify that they really only have SSA.And often people come on these forums and try to claim that the church’s tolerance off SSA is a tacit approval of homosexual behavior. The other common dodge is that claim that even criticizing homosexual behavior is uncharitable and against Church teaching. In fact homosexuals who come to these forums often want to discuss anything BUT behavior
Of course regardless of what individual say the Church teaching is clear-homosexual behavior is a grievous sin and can never be affirmed or promoted in any way.
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SeannyM
Guest
I think the point that we are trying to get across is that the church doesn’t advocate criminalization of homosexual behavior either. The recent statements of the current Pope seem more in line with what it means to treat gay people in a way that imitates Christ.
The other point that I try to get across is that a live and let live relationship when it comes to our civil law and the way we interact with fellow citizens is in my opinion the best way to go in a pluralistic society. It’s okay to be Catholic yet still recognize that other people have different beliefs, and that attempting to impose yours isn’t going to foster a neighborly or respectful atmosphere.
On this site I’ve been compared to pedophiles, murderers, animalists. I’ve had my partner, the man I love, called a paramour. I’ve been accused of being dishonest because I identify as a Catholic, and told that I’m not welcome to call myself Catholic. I’ve been told that my military service is not as valuable as that of straight service members. I’ve been told that simply by saying the words “I’m gay” I’m sharing too much of my sex life. I’ve been told that I have a psychiatric disorder. All of this… And more… Done in the name of Christ. Do you really think that were Christ participating in this discussion, these are the things he would have been saying? Is there any verse in the bible where Jesus spoke to sinners in a similar manner? Can you not see how some gay people might get the impression that many Roman Catholics hold a high level of animus toward them?
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jmcrae
Guest
The Russian government is not proposing to criminalize homosexual behaviour - they are criminalizing only the homosexual propaganda machine - the pride parades, and the story books, the sympathy stories in the newspapers, and so on. Anything that promotes it as an “equal” lifestyle.
What they do under the covers is their own business - the Russian government isn’t interested in that.
When they parade it around the school yard and say “Hay, kids, here’s something you should get into,” then, they will be prosecuted.
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JRJOHNSON
Guest
Gay/lesbian groups and transexuals often assume that 1 who is against gays, lesbians and transexuality (worse than gays) must be Christian or religious w/o even knowing them. I’m non-religious poster who is against gays, lesbians & transsexuals as I see something wrong with same sex conduct and I see something wrong with sex changes. While religious people especially Christians are more likely to agree with me while Atheists are more likely to be apologists for gays/lesbians, there are atheists (though I’m not) who are against gayism & transexuality. President Obama has no business lecturing Russia on their laws against gay propaganda.
If a gay/lesbian person is living their lives but not harassing others or telling others what to think, then it’s their life and their choice. Gay and lesbian sexual conduct must be viewed the same way as smoking is-legal if done by adults but that if they want help to become straight, then repair therapy must be there for those who want this. This is the view that most Russians have. I have not been to Russia, but Russians don’t want gays/lesbians pushing their views on kids as what is happening here in USA.
-Dan K. Savage, Shepard Found like other gay/lesbian groups see nothing wrong with Harvey B. Milk sexually abusing a 16 year old boy in 1964. As it’s known, Harvey Bernard Milk (1930-1978) is a hero to gay groups, but Harvey B. Milk was a coward who sexually abused a 16 year old boy (that boy committed suicide in 1980 when he was 33). Russians are right to have this law because it prevents gays and lesbians from pushing hero worship on a person who sexually abused a teenager.
-Dan K. Savage, Shepard Foundation like other gay/lesbian groups condemn what they call panic reaction. For example-if a gay sexually harasses a man in a public restroom and the man reacts violently, Dan K. Savage would condemn the man for reacting but Dan K. Savage does not condemn the gay for his antisocial criminal conduct which caused reaction. There is no need for a man to tolerate antisocial criminal conduct by gays as bathroom is the place to use toilet, wash up and not the place for encounters. Russian authorities believe there is no need for a man to tolerate antisocial criminal conduct by gays just as there is no need for a woman to tolerate antisocial criminal conduct by straight men. A man has right to use any reasonable conduct to stop the gay’s antisocial conduct though Dan K. Savage condemns it as panic reaction and uses mild terms such as ‘pass’ rather than sexually harass when describing the gay’s antisocial conduct.
As seen, my reasons are not based on religion. Gay/lesbian conduct is never = to straight conduct. If gays and lesbians are not bothering others with their personal lives, then most people do not care. But when they go to public schools to give their biased view on kids and censor kids who differ with them, then that is wrong. And our President must be concerned with problems facing the U.S., not laws Russians are doing which do not impact U.S. interests. President Obama must be more concerned about Syria and Russia and China’s policies supporting Assad though it’s alleged there’s chemical weapons. Russian policies which impact other nations is USA and President Obama’s business. Russia’s laws against gay propaganda is not President Obama’s business.
If a gay/lesbian person is living their lives but not harassing others or telling others what to think, then it’s their life and their choice. Gay and lesbian sexual conduct must be viewed the same way as smoking is-legal if done by adults but that if they want help to become straight, then repair therapy must be there for those who want this. This is the view that most Russians have. I have not been to Russia, but Russians don’t want gays/lesbians pushing their views on kids as what is happening here in USA.
Russians must be praised for not wanting Dan K. Savage’s It Gets Better propaganda being pushed on schoolchildren as it is here in USA. What is bad is that Dan K. Savage has spoken in public schools with no opposing views. Dan K. Savage’s views are wrong and here are some wrong views he has which Russians don’t want propagated.
-Dan K. Savage, Shepard Found like other gay/lesbian groups see nothing wrong with Harvey B. Milk sexually abusing a 16 year old boy in 1964. As it’s known, Harvey Bernard Milk (1930-1978) is a hero to gay groups, but Harvey B. Milk was a coward who sexually abused a 16 year old boy (that boy committed suicide in 1980 when he was 33). Russians are right to have this law because it prevents gays and lesbians from pushing hero worship on a person who sexually abused a teenager.
-Dan K. Savage, Shepard Foundation like other gay/lesbian groups condemn what they call panic reaction. For example-if a gay sexually harasses a man in a public restroom and the man reacts violently, Dan K. Savage would condemn the man for reacting but Dan K. Savage does not condemn the gay for his antisocial criminal conduct which caused reaction. There is no need for a man to tolerate antisocial criminal conduct by gays as bathroom is the place to use toilet, wash up and not the place for encounters. Russian authorities believe there is no need for a man to tolerate antisocial criminal conduct by gays just as there is no need for a woman to tolerate antisocial criminal conduct by straight men. A man has right to use any reasonable conduct to stop the gay’s antisocial conduct though Dan K. Savage condemns it as panic reaction and uses mild terms such as ‘pass’ rather than sexually harass when describing the gay’s antisocial conduct.
As seen, my reasons are not based on religion. Gay/lesbian conduct is never = to straight conduct. If gays and lesbians are not bothering others with their personal lives, then most people do not care. But when they go to public schools to give their biased view on kids and censor kids who differ with them, then that is wrong. And our President must be concerned with problems facing the U.S., not laws Russians are doing which do not impact U.S. interests. President Obama must be more concerned about Syria and Russia and China’s policies supporting Assad though it’s alleged there’s chemical weapons. Russian policies which impact other nations is USA and President Obama’s business. Russia’s laws against gay propaganda is not President Obama’s business.
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