Gender pronouns in the workplace

[Alex337]

It’s primarily because I don’t like them. And dysphoria is a legitimate malady too.

 

[Alex337]

It was sent to us informally in an email by the department chair as a means of fostering inclusivity when speaking or writing to students. Neither our department nor the college has its own style manual. I’ll see if I can find some of the articles I’ve seen it in…

It doesn’t? Huh. Maybe it’s an Aus thing but all the parts of my uni have style guides.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Therapeutic in much the same way.

 

[dochawk]

I kinda like Madame myself, although that would be a problem as well

You can order “Your finest blonde” from both a barkeep and a madame, although with quite different results . . .

(e.g. tu and vous in French).

“You” and “Thou” in english . . .

Oo, I’ve just been told I have to have my last post checked by a moderator before it is posted… I am at a loss to know what I said that was questionable!!

The diminutive of “Richard” starting with “D” often does this . . .

If she’s over the age of 16 she deserves the respect of being called a woman.

If “girl” is the part of “snowflake girl” that bothers her . . .

And yes, transmen exist. They usually make the news for being pregnant, because they are, in fact women, and not because they are making inroads into the male dominated spheres. Wonder why that is?

There was one a few weeks ago where a “transmale” won an athletic contest after overcoming a disqualification for the tester one “she” was taking.

hawk

 

[AlbertDerGrosse]

Well, I’ll hand it to ya. You’re at least consistent. I’m not sure I could consider amputating perfectly healthy, functional limbs as therapeutic, and I used the condition as a counter example because I’m aware that there’s a great deal of controversy among doctors about it.

 

[StephieNorthCo]

I’ve mentioned the book “The Tale-Tell Brain” in a couple of related threads. There is a whole chapter on that topic. Fascinating tie in to various brain hardware problems for that particular issue. Highly recommended.

 

[AlbertDerGrosse]

There was one a few weeks ago where a “transmale” won an athletic contest after overcoming a disqualification for the tester one “she” was taking.

That’s a transwoman.

 

[Alex337]

When you say “transmale” do you mean transman? I.e. someone identified female at birth but transitioning to male?

 

[Paul71]

Knowing my gender doesn’t tell you if I prefer gender neutral pronouns.

Your profile lists “She/Her” (feminine) along with “They/Them” (gender-neutral). So it seems that you are fine with people using feminine pronouns to refer to you, though you are also OK with gender-neutral. It seems to me that people would figure out to use feminine pronouns if you told them you were female.

I don’t see that as ideologically loaded. I want to know what pronouns a trans person wants used for them. It’s a simple thing, like knowing a person didn’t like being called Jimmy growing up and wanted to be called Jim, but now embraces being called Jimmy so that’s what I call him.

Transgenderism is an ideology that many people do not agree with, so I think that some people would see a list of “preferred pronouns” as ideologically loaded. On the other hand, I think that very few would see “Sex: Female” or “Gender: Female” on a forum profile page as being ideologically loaded, even if the “female” person was actually biologically male (since the person viewing the profile wouldn’t know that fact).

I know of a woman named James and another named Douglas and personally know five people named Dana and four named Jordan so I think it’s useful, not remotely condescending.

I think it would be very useful to know that James is female, Dana #1 is male, Dana #2 is female, etc. But once I know that, it becomes obvious what pronouns to use for each of these people. That’s why I said that explicitly listing the pronouns (rather than listing sex/gender) could come across as condescending, as if the reader wouldn’t know that a female person should be referred to as “she.”

I’m not trying to give you a hard time, just trying to further explain myself. Thanks for explaining why you choose to list those pronouns. Even if I don’t fully understand your reasons, at least I have some insight into them.

 

[AlbertDerGrosse]

And the book advocates for the amputation of healthy, functional limbs as an ethical treatment for BIID?

 

[Rozellelily]

This to me is silly.
Are you from America?
What in the world has this world become.
I’m glad that at least here in Australia it hasn’t yet come to this.
Unless someone has an ambiguous name,like someone mentioned,Kim,or Terry,Sam etc why would this even be necessary?
If people don’t know that I’m a her/she/woman/female by looking at me,then I have a problem

Instead of all this politically correct stuff,wouldn’t it be better to do more brain studies,sociological studies, and psychological studies to see why transgenderism is on the rise in certain countries?

Isn’t it also cultural?
Ie:the number of individuals who feel that they are transgender seems to be higher in countries that are more open/accepting towards transgender issues.
In backgrounds where Iess accepted such as my Slavic background or China,there are less transgender people.
There are some of course,and there have always been cross dressers,but not to the level of in Australia for example.
Some might say,obviously this is due to fear and stigma, and that they simply don’t want to “come out” (dress as opposite sex in public) for fear but it’s more than this.
Even when you take into consideration fear/stigma factors,there is still overall a lesser number of transgender individuals than in a country like Australia.

So to me it would seem that sociological issues and different cultural issues about gender should be more greatly studied.

 

[StephieNorthCo]

The book discusses the malformations in the brain leading to those disorders. Treatment plans are beyond its scope, although possibilities are discussed.

ETA: I get the impression he’d prefer brain corrections, when feasible.

 

[Paul71]

I also wish we had a neutral for uncle/aunt, we have cousin after all.

I actually wish for the opposite: I wish that English had separate gendered words for male cousins and female cousins, like we have brother/sister or aunt/uncle.

If you look at Romance languages like Spanish and Portuguese, you see that English, in comparison, is a very gender-neutral language. Within that context, I find it ironic that some people want to make English even more gender-neutral.

 

[Alex337]

It makes it so much easier to refer to a group though. I can talk about all of my cousins in one simple word.

 

[Paul71]

It makes it so much easier to refer to a group though. I can talk about all of my cousins in one simple word.

Yes, that would be a disadvantage of having separate words, and probably no solution is perfect. But I can use “sibling” to refer to a mixed-gender group, and yet I almost never do, because it just sounds so much nicer (to me anyway) to say “brothers and sisters.” It’s also nice to be able to differentiate a brother from a sister without having to add modifiers like “girl sibling” or “boy sibling,” so I’m glad that we have separate words.

 

[Alex337]

Alex337:

It makes it so much easier to refer to a group though. I can talk about all of my cousins in one simple word.

Yes, that would be a disadvantage of having separate words, and probably no solution is perfect. But I can use “sibling” to refer to a mixed-gender group, and yet I almost never do, because it just sounds so much nicer (to me anyway) to say “brothers and sisters.” It’s also nice to be able to differentiate a brother from a sister without having to add modifiers like “girl sibling” or “boy sibling,” so I’m glad that we have separate words.

I refer to my parents all the time like that. It’s just so useful. And as a teacher I write about a students siblings in newsletters because it sounds more formal.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

It seems to me that people would figure out to use feminine pronouns if you told them you were female.

Naw. I’m just telling them the pronouns I prefer. Saying that I’m female excludes the gender neutral pronouns that I are increasingly my first choice. They/them is how I typically refer to others.

Transgenderism is an ideology

It’s not an ideology.

so I think that some people would see a list of “preferred pronouns” as ideologically loaded

Of course. If people continue to misconstrue GID and being transgender as an ideology. I think those folks aren’t doing their own research.

I think it would be very useful to know that James is female, Dana #1 is male, Dana #2 is female, etc. But once I know that, it becomes obvious what pronouns to use for each of these people. That’s why I said that explicitly listing the pronouns (rather than listing sex/gender) could come across as condescending, as if the reader wouldn’t know that a female person should be referred to as “she.”

In the OP this was discussed as the signature in an email. I rarely tailor my sig line for the recipient and certainly not for coworkers, so the information going to get repeated so I don’t see this as condescending. I did have a coworker, many years ago, who thought that I typed my full name, my position, name of organization, etc. in every email and that I had some sort of complex in which I needed to tell every recipient, in every email my job title; she frequently made little digs about it. I wonder if she ever figured out how signatures work.

I’m not trying to give you a hard time, just trying to further explain myself. Thanks for explaining why you choose to list those pronouns. Even if I don’t fully understand your reasons, at least I have some insight into them.

It’s cool. I don’t mind the questions. I have gotten burned in the past discussing this so I appreciate you saying that.

 

[Paul71]

I will say I prefer that to the idiocy that’s befalling Spanish due to their own group of “woke” malcontents: removing the terminal vowel of nouns and adjectives (thus neutering them) and adding an ‘x’ to the end. As in “la gente latinx” (“the Latino people” oddly enough this is an example of them neutering an otherwise feminine word ‘gente’). I don’t even know how to begin pronouncing that monstrosity. I doubt most of its advocates do either.

Wow, I had not heard that about Spanish. What an awful thing they are trying to do to such a beautiful language!

 

[Bruised_Reed]

A friend was trying to help family navigate preferred pronouns in mixed company (supportive + not supportive = mixed) and one thing I suggested was him being introduced as the “youngest child of John and Mary” or “Joe’s younger sibling.” His aunt wanted to help him connect with everyone and he wanted to avoid certain people thinking he was throwing it in their faces without being misgendered.

 

[AlbertDerGrosse]

It’s really new, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s a Chicano thing more than a real phenomenon in Spanish speaking countries. In fact I’ve only overheard one person trying to use it in real life, not online. This 20s-something Latino was telling a woman whom I assumed was his grandmother that it’s more inclusive to write Latinx instead of Latino. She laughed and said it was the dumbest bull**** she’s ever heard.