Gender pronouns in the workplace

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The instances of the long term negative effects of puberty blockers is coming to light among girls who were prescribed them quite legitimately for precocious puberty.
People are obtaining blockers and hormones illegally because people like you are cheerfully proclaiming they are entirely safe when there is growing evidence they are not.
I know it suits you to cherry pick items from my posts and twist them but you still haven’t properly addressed anything I have presented. Why is it not better to wait and affirm a gender non-conforming child in their own skin, rather than load them with dangerous chemicals?
 
JoyToTheWhirled said:
The instances of the long term negative effects of puberty blockers is coming to light among girls who were prescribed them quite legitimately for precocious puberty.
People are obtaining blockers and hormones illegally because people like you are cheerfully proclaiming they are entirely safe when there is growing evidence they are not.
I know it suits you to cherry pick items from my posts and twist them but you still haven’t properly addressed anything I have presented. Why is it not better to wait and affirm a gender non-conforming child in their own skin, rather than load them with dangerous chemicals?
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“People like me”? The people saying they should only be prescribed by psychiatrists and endrocinologists under extreme circumstances? Somehow I doubt that’s what you meant but it is what I’ve said. Multiple times.
 
Well, you know, the format is tricky. I’ve said multiple times that women and children are at risk from the push for unquestioning acceptance of these ideas and I’ve even given examples of why that is the case and you’ve airily dismissed every one. Which I totally get because facing up to the fact that you are advocating for the weakening of women’s rights and using children as a prop for the whole ideology is a pretty hard sell. So sure, you have said that these things should be prescribed carefully in extreme cases. But you’ve already shown you have trouble defining simple biological facts like sex definitions which the vast majority of the world has zero problem understanding, so I’m afraid I’m not remotely confident you know what you mean when you say those words.
 
JoyToTheWhirled said:
Well, you know, the format is tricky. I’ve said multiple times that women and children are at risk from the push for unquestioning acceptance of these ideas and I’ve even given examples of why that is the case and you’ve airily dismissed every one. Which I totally get because facing up to the fact that you are advocating for the weakening of women’s rights and using children as a prop for the whole ideology is a pretty hard sell. So sure, you have said that these things should be prescribed carefully in extreme cases. But you’ve already shown you have trouble defining simple biological facts like sex definitions which the vast majority of the world has zero problem understanding, so I’m afraid I’m not remotely confident you know what you mean when you say those words.
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In other threads I also provided you with the example of Australia, which has had a law on the books for over a decade now allowing trans* folk to use whatever bathroom they please without any problems at all. I also provided you with the stats showing that transwomen are statistically more likely to be harmed than to harm. So I don’t think I ignored those points, I can provide them again if you like?
 
If the kids were just taught a straight forward “some people feel they are a different gender to their birth; treat them with respect and don’t bully them that seem fine as long as no one felt pressured to agree with transgenderism(for lack of better words).

On the other hand,on the least, I don’t agree with kids being offered surgical options or hormonal treatments prior to becoming adults.
I know that Psychiatric opinions must be sought first,but to be frank,I put zero weight in psychiatric opinions in this matter,because Psychiatrists are influenced by the culture/social/political construct that they live in and they simply go off the DSM which is an ever changing book where diagnoses are voted in or out each time a new dsm version comes out.
Brain scans have shown that that brain does not stop maturing until approx 23 years of age,particularly the pre frontal regions which are in control of decision making etc so I do not believe that teens/children have the capacity to make informed life long decisions like this regardless of how many Psychiatrists _subjectively_claim that that individual is capable.

There are numerous media stories where people have commenced “transitioning” and later changed their minds.
If Psychiatrists were so competent and free of bias,then this wouldn’t be happening.
They should not be encouraging children’s to make rash decisions regardless of how strongly the child feels it.
Hormone replacement is not without size effects even for women so the idea that doctors would recommend then to growing children,of the opposite sex,without full awareness of the long term potential side effects it could have to them,seems like child abuse and irresponsible.

It also seems like very strange reasoning considering that many doctors will not even prescribe common sleep/anxiety mediciations due to concern of potential addiction ,yet they will give hormone medicine to teens to artificially create a hormones levels that is not natural to that child’s physiology (irregardless if male or female)?

www.independent.co.uk

12-year-old boy who transitioned to female changes his mind 2 years later

'I began to realise I was actually comfortable in my body'
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6923912.stm
 
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I’m not even going to go into the bathroom ( so to speak) I think it’s a complete side show and I have brought up refuges, rape counselling, single sex hospital provision which are much more significant and you haven’t acknowledged those.
Two women a week are murdered by men in the UK. There are significant reasons why women should want and need single sex spaces. Actual violence. I shouldn’t have to say it, but I will - it is of course, entirely wrong that anyone should face violence for any reason, transpeople included. However, when transactivists claim that calling people by the pronoun they don’t like is ‘violence’ I find myself again questioning definitions.
 
Luckily I tackled this one in another thread; that child was given drugs illegally by his mother. It wasn’t condoned by psychiatrists.
 
Thanks but regardless,that speaks for one case.
Psychiatrists are not infallible by any means.
 
JoyToTheWhirled said:
I’m not even going to go into the bathroom ( so to speak) I think it’s a complete side show and I have brought up refuges, rape counselling, single sex hospital provision which are much more significant and you haven’t acknowledged those.
Two women a week are murdered by men in the UK. There are significant reasons why women should want and need single sex spaces. Actual violence. I shouldn’t have to say it, but I will - it is of course, entirely wrong that anyone should face violence for any reason, transpeople included. However, when transactivists claim that calling people by the pronoun they don’t like is ‘violence’ I find myself again questioning definitions.
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How many are murdered by transwomen? Is it 0?

Here’s some of the transwomen murdered just in the US just last year; Violence Against the Transgender Community in 2017 - HRC

Here’s a list for 2017; https://tdor.info/

Transwomen should have access to rape counselling. If they want to provide it the person should have the right to ask for a different counsellor, they should have that right no matter who the counsellor is though. Transwomen should have access to refuges; most have segregated spaces for people who don’t want to interact with others, I haven’t seen one that forced its people to interact with each other. And to be frank I don’t know any single sex hospitals, I’m sure they exist but I don’t know any.
 
Rozellelily said:
Thanks but regardless,that speaks for one case.
Psychiatrists are not infallible by any means.
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That would be because prescribing hormones and surgery is illegal for children in Aus, US and UK. And indeed most countries. Psychiatrists can prescribe hormone blockers, but only under extreme circumstances. Try to find other cases like that one and read them; you’ll be lucky to find any besides from that and if you do you’ll soon find that the child was given things illegally or they were intersex. Intersex children are allowed to be operated on; which is hideous.
 
And also some of them (the stories) have this superficial notion of womanhood.
Ie:they associate womanhood with glamour,cosmetics,heels and walking a certain way when in reality “womanhood” expression is deeper and not based on superficial things.

Like Bruce Jenner,he was surrounded by a big family of women who associate womanhood/femininity with these superficial factors.
Likely he had these feelings prior to his last marriage already(?), but maybe this associate reconfirmed his perceptions of what being a woman means?
 
And if transwomen don’t embrace the superficial they have people tell them they don’t act like women. It’s a horrible catch 22.
 
Do you have the slightest idea of how hard women fought to provide rape counselling and refuges, how little funding they get, and how distressing it is to have male bodied individuals in those spaces for traumatised women? A couple of weeks ago there was a case of a homeless shelter in which a transwoman was housed who caused great distress to the female residents.
You are unaware of the right anyone has in the UK to request a same sex healthcare practitioner, a right that becomes meaningless if male bodied people can be designated female?
 
Given that part of my work involves supplying educational materials to children in such shelters, though I haven’t had as much time for this recently, I’d say I have some idea. I know the space I worked at tried very hard to ensure no one had to be near anyone else, male bodied or not.
 
I can sympathise how this would be a dilemma.
 
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I know this case 🙂 While they no longer need to go through the Court system they are still required to go through counselling with a psychiatrist and an endrocrinologist before they can carry on their treatment. (iirc) you’re in Aus, this girl would be working through the Gender Centre in either Sydney or Newcastle. They’re still not allowed to do so until they’re 16; at that age they can join the military and have sex, so it seems fair.
 
To be clear; I don’t think children should pursue medical alterations until they’re adults. But in some cases hormone blockers seem necessary as the child is in crisis and puberty risks exacerbating the problem and potentially leading to self harm. These should not be given out lightly but if a psychiatrist believes it is necessary to stop a child from being harmed then I support it.

I also prefer people not to need anxiety or depression medication; but I recognise the fact that some folk need it to be their real self. It shouldn’t be a shameful thing. There’s a cute picture I look at on days when I feel a bit fail for needing anti-anxiety stuff; (Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
Well, as delightful as it has been to discuss emotive nonsense this morning, I can’t spend the entire day typing out posts on the vulnerabilities of women and children that are largely dismissed, so I shall leave you to your propagandising.
 
I’ve addressed all of your points 🙂 As ever I am happy to provide further statistics for you to ignore.
 
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