Gender Roles

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buffalo:
I do not know. Could be cost, immaturity, not buying into the educational promises of an easy life after graduation, loans, other interests.
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**I agree many or all of those are very likely factors. Valid ones at times too. **
I would also be interested in knowing if they are persuing another form of education outside of college? Such as vocational training, which can actually be more profitable and easier to find a paying job.
 
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buffalo:
I do not know. Could be cost, immaturity, not buying into the educational promises of an easy life after graduation, loans, other interests.
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buffalo, I think it is more about motivation. I don’t have a college degree yet I earn more than my peers in my field that do.
I’ve also seen many college graduates struggle to pay off HUGE college loans (Our son is just getting ready for college. We are looking at a minimum of $12k per year for a state so-so college vs. 25-30k per year for a semi-decent Catholic College). And then they graduate and can’t find a job. Too many are book smart only.
 
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buffalo:
I might add there is an awful lot of cheating to get a degree. To an employer that means they will have to re-educate the workforce as they never learned what the degree claims. Perhaps men are seeing the fallacy in this “purchasing” of a degree.
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Having hired both those with a college degree and those without, I can say that work experience means much more than a degree. Ever heard a kid in class say “when will we ever use this stuff that we are learning?” Chances are… never.

A willingness to learn and work hard on the job is the best education they can get. This “need” for a college degree is a farce. And an expensive one at that.
 
Chris G:
buffalo, I think it is more about motivation. I don’t have a college degree yet I earn more than my peers in my field that do.
I’ve also seen many college graduates struggle to pay off HUGE college loans (Our son is just getting ready for college. We are looking at a minimum of $12k per year for a state so-so college vs. 25-30k per year for a semi-decent Catholic College). And then they graduate and can’t find a job. Too many are book smart only.
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Bingo! Perserverence is not on their radar screens. We are at fault for buying into the idea that we want it easier for our kids. We have been colleges false promises best promoter. Life is tough not easy.

Attitude, motivation and desire are three traits that every employer will want. (Higher education without these is a recipe for failure. )They are realizing handing their companies over to recent MBA’s has hurt what they have taken a long time to build. Better to take an entry level person and let them rise to the top. And many pay for added education along the way.
 
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Karin:
What the heck are you talking about ???
No I am not a Catholic…devout or otherwise but what does that have to do with a question in regards to a commnet that someone agreed with?
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It says a lot about your credibility. If you don’t share our Christian values, then it makes perfect sense why you are so hostile towards men and why you have a hard time understanding how important family roles are.
 
Chris G:
You illustrate my point well. For you, a college education is a “need”, to put it in your own words “it makes it easier”. See, that’s where you have been brainwasher. Either that, or you just don’t care. One or the other. A “need” is something we “need” to survive, not something that “makes it easier”. We are fortunate to be able to send kids to college, but it is far from a “need”…
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It is a need…otherwise my DH would be working for minimum wage and that will not support all four of us in the tri-state area. No brainwashing here…we need the college education to survive (see above)…it does not make it easier it makes it so I am not getting food stamps and other assistance. Using your words it is something that is needed to survive…so in our eyes it is not a “luxury” something that is not needed.
Chris G:
Same goes for two cars. If one is a stay at home Mom, she doesn’t “need” a car. Worse comes to worse, drive hubby to work in the morning and keep the car and pick him up at night. Would that be “hard”. You bet. But that’s the difference between “want” and “need”. My Mom did it, you can to."…
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Oh I am so happy for your mom I am glad that she could drive your dad to work and pick him up each evening. No I can not do this…my husband gets out of work at 2-3am so I can not leave my kids who are sleeping home alone to pick him up….DYFS would love that though:rolleyes: ! Sure I could drop him off at work those days he did not need to be to early (otherwise same problem as above kids home alone) but then how does he get home?
Chris G:
Kids don’t NEED a computer for school. It’s nice, but they don’t NEED it. Another falacy…"…
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Computer is cheaper than encyclopedias that you need to update every few years, cheaper than a typewriter (if you can still find one- think paper, ribbons, white out etc.)…and my eldest does need a computer for his College Prep high school classes.
Chris G:
Yup, DVD’s cheaper than going to the movies. But not cheaper than not having either. Again, want vs. need. We don’t “need” to watch DVD’s or go to the movies. Ever think about reading the Bible to your children. Now that they NEED.
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Man do you live in a cave somehwere? No we do not DVD’s but this is one of the luxuries that we save for and enjoy. My eldest reads his own Bible (he’s got it thanks:) )…my youngest listens to tapes of the Bible (so he gets his too). We also read books(oooh) and play at the park and go swimming at grandma’s pool all things that do not cost $$$$.
 
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buffalo:
I might add there is an awful lot of cheating to get a degree. To an employer that means they will have to re-educate the workforce as they never learned what the degree claims. Perhaps men are seeing the fallacy in this “purchasing” of a degree.
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I think that’s the biggest factor and the biggest shame of all and a huge complaint from my own dh. He says some of the most difficult people he has to train and work with are the college grads - drives him nuts. Yet, having that piece of paper can make the difference in getting a business loan or reaching upper management in some places. It’s more of a paid entry pass than proof of an education in many fields.
I was so frustrated that I HAD to take federal gov’t and american history and english comp and… in college. Good grief, if you’re an american citizen who’s gone through K - 12 in America - you should be able to sue the school you graduated from for not giving you a basic education if you don’t know that stuff! It’s such a shame. (BTW, I did know that stuff - which is probably why I was so frustrated and certainly a factor in why we home school.)
 
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buffalo:
I might add there is an awful lot of cheating to get a degree. To an employer that means they will have to re-educate the workforce as they never learned what the degree claims. Perhaps men are seeing the fallacy in this “purchasing” of a degree.
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Cheating??? First I heard of this…can you clarify this for me please.
 
Chris G:
Having hired both those with a college degree and those without, I can say that work experience means much more than a degree. Ever heard a kid in class say “when will we ever use this stuff that we are learning?” Chances are… never.

A willingness to learn and work hard on the job is the best education they can get. This “need” for a college degree is a farce. And an expensive one at that.
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Or how about the recent grad who is offered a starting wage and says I am worth more. They whine “With my education I will not work for what the market is paying. I want and deserve more. Maybe I will go back to school and get more education, maybe that will help.”
 
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buffalo:
Bingo! Perserverence is not on their radar screens. We are at fault for buying into the idea that we want it easier for our kids. We have been colleges false promises best promoter. Life is tough not easy.

Attitude, motivation and desire are three traits that every employer will want. (Higher education without these is a recipe for failure. )They are realizing handing their companies over to recent MBA’s has hurt what they have taken a long time to build. Better to take an entry level person and let them rise to the top. And many pay for added education along the way.
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And in doing so, these parents that are trying to “make it easier” for their children are doing them great harm. This notion of quick, self gratification without any regard for sacrifice is leading a generation into thinking that all they need to do is graduate from college with A’s and then they can proceed to easily live the American dream. Many wake up to find out that in order to live that dream both parents now have to work 10 hrs a day, thus repeating the cycle.

If I had to (thank God I am blessed and don’t have to) live in a one room shack, with no TV, computer, DVD player, computer games, sporting events, eating out, etc, in order for my wife to be able to stay home with the children while I worked, I would do it in a heartbeat. Because I love my children that much. They deserve it.

Listen to Dr. Ray. The one that has 10 adopted children. Ages 6-18 or thereabouts. Multi-racial, bi-racial, you name it. He can afford it because he knows the difference between “needs” and “luxuries”.
 
Chris G:
Having hired both those with a college degree and those without, I can say that work experience means much more than a degree. Ever heard a kid in class say “when will we ever use this stuff that we are learning?” Chances are… never.

A willingness to learn and work hard on the job is the best education they can get. This “need” for a college degree is a farce. And an expensive one at that.
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Does this (college degree is a farce) apply to all proffesions…like say Doctors?
Chris G:
It says a lot about your credibility. If you don’t share our Christian values, then it makes perfect sense why you are so hostile towards men and why you have a hard time understanding how important family roles are…
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My credibility…oh you are a barrel of laughs:rotfl: today! I am not hostile towards men …please point out where I have stated that I am..And I understand family roles as well as any “Catholic” or “Christian” female poster here…what you do not like is that woman are saying there is no Biblical or Church teaching etc.that states a woman can not support or work if that is what is right for the family.
 
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buffalo:
Sure does!
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Ok then so when you need that brain surgery (knock on wood you dont) I will make sure to send you to some quack without the medical degree or education to back up what he practices!
 
**Oh geez, it pains me to do this… but I’ll side somewhere in the middle between you two.😉 **
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Karin:
It is a need…otherwise my DH would be working for minimum wage and that will not support all four of us in the tri-state area. No brainwashing here…we need the college education to survive (see above)…it does not make it easier it makes it so I am not getting food stamps and other assistance. Using your words it is something that is needed to survive…so in our eyes it is not a “luxury” something that is not needed.
This is not for certain, but if you feel that a college degree is needed to improve your family - then I can only assume that it the truth for your situation.

Oh I am so happy for your mom I am glad that she could drive your dad to work and pick him up each evening. No I can not do this…my husband gets out of work at 2-3am so I can not leave my kids who are sleeping home alone to pick him up….DYFS would love that though:rolleyes: ! Sure I could drop him off at work those days he did not need to be to early (otherwise same problem as above kids home alone) but then how does he get home?
My dh works odd hours at times too about 20 miles away. We have one BIG car.😛 If I need the van, I take him and bring him back. We have arranged for me to have the car 2 (maybe 3) times a week for various outings and errands I need to do. Of course, if a need comes up - I can take him to work more often. DYFS has no business saying anything about what time you take your kids to go pick up your dh. This saves us a car payment and reduces gas expenses.
Computer is cheaper than encyclopedias that you need to update every few years, cheaper than a typewriter (if you can still find one- think paper, ribbons, white out etc.)…and my eldest does need a computer for his College Prep high school classes.
Here I agree with you. Many schools will not accept or will lower the grade if it isn’t printed out work. They also assume you have access to internet and such and it would be nearly impossible to do school work without a computer - especially if you have several dc. You spend much more time away from family at the library or school if it wasn’t for the computer at home.

Man do you live in a cave somehwere? No we do not DVD’s but this is one of the luxuries that we save for and enjoy. My eldest reads his own Bible (he’s got it thanks:) )…my youngest listens to tapes of the Bible (so he gets his too). We also read books(oooh) and play at the park and go swimming at grandma’s pool all things that do not cost $$$$.
Again, I want to note that the litmus test is not how much a person has or does not have - it’s whether a family is hurting in order to obtain it or pay for it. Karin, if your family is not suffering absent parents in order to obtain these things - then there is absolutely nothing wrong with having them whether you need them or not. One of us would have to get a 2nd job to afford a 2nd car. We don’t feel the loss of family time would be worth the convienence of not having to take my dh to work. If you guys can afford a 2nd car, then there’s no reason not to have it.
 
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This thread is now closed. Thanks to all who participated in the discussion.
 
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