Gender Roles

[captaincatholic]

This thread has gotten pretty heated, so I thought I might contribute something a little on the fun side. I have read a few posts here referring to domestic abuse. I heard a really great homily on it once, from a priest who also works in the ER. He recommended:

“When we are in line waiting to be judged on Judgment Day, and you find out that you are next to a person guilty of domestic abuse, GET OUT OF THE WAY! Anyone who brings violence into a sacrament will bring down the Wrath of God like few others can even imagine!”

Don’t get me wrong-- This is very true, but I was amused at the image of waiting in line, like a checkout at the grocery store.

As far as gender roles, I grew up in a pretty traditional Old World household, but the boys helped with the housework too. Now that my husband and I are getting ready for our children (our first due in February or March) we have been discussing the subject. I have been reticent to ask my husband to do alot of household chores when he comes home from work because I am home most of the day, and only work a few hours here and there. As the pregnancy progresses, though, I see that I can’t do it all myself, so I will need to start asking for his help. We don’t think this is any violation of gender roles, but really a fulfillment of them, because it will be good for children to see that it is the responsibility, obligation, and joy for mothers and fathers to help eachother.

 

[Karin]

captaincatholic:

This thread has gotten pretty heated, so I thought I might contribute something a little on the fun side. I have read a few posts here referring to domestic abuse. I heard a really great homily on it once, from a priest who also works in the ER. He recommended:

“When we are in line waiting to be judged on Judgment Day, and you find out that you are next to a person guilty of domestic abuse, GET OUT OF THE WAY! Anyone who brings violence into a sacrament will bring down the Wrath of God like few others can even imagine!”

Don’t get me wrong-- This is very true, but I was amused at the image of waiting in line, like a checkout at the grocery store.

.

Thank you…and there are a few people that I will share this with…

 

[Truthseeker4]

Chris G:

If he insists that you work outside the home, then I suggest that maybe he’s not holding up his end of the deal that says to “love yoru wife”.

That may or may not be true.

Is there anything stated in Catholicism that a woman cannot work outside the home?

Reading the posts evidently not. Ideally it probably is not wise for both parents to be working outside the home. In today’s society it is very difficult to have only one bread winner but apparently it can be done.

Looking to Proverbs 31 the virtuous woman did work, earned income and bought land. Her husband sat with the senators of the land. They also had children. Where were the children when she was carrying out her business?

Melissa

 

[buffalo]

Karin:

Who said anything about wanting to do it all? Do you assume this because woman are getting educated at a rate that is higher than that of men? I hope you are not implying something is wrong with education of woman?
But …if men are not there to support their families or not able to support them who do you think is going to do it…the obvious answer would be the wife if she is so qualified.

Meeting the needs of your family is different from meeting the wants of your family. Does wifey work so they can eat out at restaurants, have a club membership, go to the movies every week, have all the latest toys and gadgets, have the newest brand name clothes, have two new vehicles, have a larger than average home, work overtime only so you can prepare frozen dinners to save time, have a lawn that requires fertilizer applications three times a year, have the best furniture, have an inground pool, take two expensive vacations a year, overparenting your kids by having them in many costly activities, etc.?

The point I was making is that as more women seek higher educatoin the long term will mean more men not working. Is that the legacy you want to leave to your daughters?

 

[Karin]

buffalo:

Meeting the needs of your family is different from meeting the wants of your family…

AGREED

buffalo:

Does wifey work so they can eat out at restaurants, have a club membership, go to the movies every week, have all the latest toys and gadgets, have the newest brand name clothes, have two new vehicles, have a larger than average home, work overtime only so you can prepare frozen dinners to save time, have a lawn that requires fertilizer applications three times a year, have the best furniture, have an inground pool, take two expensive vacations a year, overparenting your kids by having them in many costly activities, etc.? .

My understanding is that woman work a). becuase they need two incomes to survive (getting the basics, food clothing shelter) b) woman work and men stay home becuase their job or profession allows them to survive (get the basics food, shelter, clothing insurance etc.)

I do not argue that there are woman that work so they can have the extras(as you mentioned) but from what I have seen that is not the norm .

buffalo:

The point I was making is that as more women seek higher educatoin the long term will mean more men not working.

Who says woman can not get a higher education? How does this in hinder men from working? Does this hinder men from getting a higher education? Does it hinder them in anything?

buffalo:

Is that the legacy you want to leave to your daughters?

Well I dont have daughters…I have sons.

 

[buffalo]

Karin:

I do not argue that there are woman that work so they can have the extras(as you mentioned) but from what I have seen that is not the norm .

Well I dont have daughters…I have sons.

I see it as the norm.

Well then, is this the legacy that you want to leave to your sons?

Gee, if that were me I could go fishing everyday or golfing. Very attractive indeed. What a country!

 

[Rob_s_Wife]

buffalo:

The point I was making is that as more women seek higher educatoin the long term will mean more men not working. Is that the legacy you want to leave to your daughters?

Don’t tell me you’re one of those men who think there’s nothing worse than an educated woman?

It has also been noted in previous posts that MOST of those same highly educated women plan to stay home when the babies come.

How does having an educated mother equal deprived children?

How does having an educated wife deprive a man of a job or the desire to educate himself?

How does an uneducated wife benefit anyone?

---

As for people working more to get “wants” rather “needs” met. I agree there. I see men who work way too much for wants and it hurts their families too.

 

[LSK]

Karin:

That is what i thought…that is why I used that term…but some people took offense to it…so I have apologized and also explained why I used that term.

And your apology has been both noted and accepted, Karin…it takes a truly devout Catholic to admit a mistake and take responsibility for it…

 

[buffalo]

Don’t tell me you’re one of those men who think there’s nothing worse than an educated woman?

---

Not at all. It’s not the education but the pursuit of material goods that is the problem.

 

[Rob_s_Wife]

buffalo:

Not at all. It’s not the education but the pursuit of material goods that is the problem.

**Oh thank goodness! **

---

I agree then! I would modify it a bit to say excess material goods is the problem. Food, clothing, and shelter are material good we need - but they don’t have to be excessive to the point of depriving us of a family.

 

[Karin]

buffalo:

I see it as the norm

. well I am sorry for you then

buffalo:

Well then, is this the legacy that you want to leave to your sons?

buffalo:

The legacy that woman should be educated, that woman should work outside of the home if that is what is best for that family, that to be educated is a good thing if you are male or female, that it is ok for men to be “house-husbands”, and many other things …**YUP that is exactly the legacy I hope to leave them! **

buffalo:

Gee, if that were me I could go fishing everyday or golfing. Very attractive indeed. What a country!

Knock yourself out…if fishing and golfing everyday works for your family then who am I to say no?.

 

[buffalo]

Karin:

. well I am sorry for you then

buffalo:

Well then, is this the legacy that you want to leave to your sons?

buffalo:

The legacy that woman should be educated, that woman should work outside of the home if that is what is best for that family, that to be educated is a good thing if you are male or female, that it is ok for men to be “house-husbands”, and many other things …**YUP that is exactly the legacy I hope to leave them! **

Knock yourself out…if fishing and golfing everyday works for your family then who am I to say no?.

You do not see it as the norm? Where do you live?

Any thoughts as to the long term effects?

Knock yourself out…if fishing and golfing everyday works for your family then who am I to say no?.

Will you still respect me next year?

 

[buffalo]

**Oh thank goodness! **

- but they don’t have to be excessive to the point of depriving us of a family.

We agree then.

 

[Island_Oak]

Chris G:

Yes Mothers can earn a paycheck. Yes Fathers can stay at home and take care of the kids. Both are perfectly capable. But it’s not the ideal.

For whom? You? Fine. But you have no authority–from the Church, Scripture, or Catechism that backs you up here. This is an issue that is left to the discretion of each married couple. Your moral judgement imposed onto another couple’s very legitimate choice to do it differently is at best inappropriate and at worst highly uncharitable.

Just because Mom could earn more because she has a Masters or whatever, doesn’t mean that she should. And just because a man can stay home and take care of the kids, doesn’t mean that he should.

Says who? You?

Aside from the anti-Catholic slant to some of these replies…

???

I notice that what is missing from pro-Dad-stay-at-home-ers is any sort of (name removed by moderator)ut on what example Jesus gave us.

Would that be the example of the same celibate, childless Jesus I’m thinking of–who never had children to feed and educate nor a wife of his own to support?? Would this be the same Jesus who never, as far as we know from the Gospels, ever uttered a phrase even close to “blessed are the stay at home mothers, they shall get to heaven faster than those who earned a paycheck…?!?”

Between these attitudes, the prevalence and acceptance of divorce, and the accepted use of birth control, we’ve got our work cut out for us.

You are WAY out of line to place these social ills on an equal footing with a woman who chooses to support her family by working outside the home. You are overdue for some discernment on how you express your preferences on this issue.

 

[Karin]

buffalo:

You do not see it as the norm? Where do you live?

No once again I do not…I live in the tri-state area (the Garden State) and what i see is many families a) that require two parents to work to supply the basics (food clothing shelter,insurance) no extras as discussed before or b) one parent stays home and the other works. or option c) single parent houses (due to divorce or death) that require the person to work to support either himself and kid(s) or herself and kid(s)
Where do you live that you see it differently???

buffalo:

Any thoughts as to the long term effects?

Long term effects of what? Please clarify

buffalo:

Will you still respect me next year?

the question is do I respect you now? (sarcastic humor, haha!! )

 

[SemperJase]

Don’t tell me you’re one of those men who think there’s nothing worse than an educated woman?

The problem with current education enrollment is not that women are getting educated. The problem is that men are NOT getting educated. We don’t need to have less women in college, we need more men.

This is actually a tradegy for women. Most women want to cut back on hours after they have children. When their husbands can’t earn as much because they aren’t educated, women view their job as an obligation, not a choice. The woman feels as if she doesn’t have the choice to stay at home. Isn’t that exactly what happened with the example on this board?

The over-representation of women with college degrees leaves them fewer choices for a spouse. Women do not marry down. Men will marry a less educated, less financially success woman and elevate their status. That isn’t generally true of women.

That’s just not what women are attracted to. An anecdote, Halle Berry was recently overheard complaining that her new boyfriend isn’t as rich or as successful in his career as she is. In other words, she is dating down and is not satisfied. Do you ever think you would hear a male movie star make that complaint?

In spite of the occaisional exception, women don’t respect men they have to support. Men don’t have that issue supporting women.

 

[Chris_G]

Oh I have to laugh. So doing the laundry, cooking three plus meals a day, cleaning, being a mother and many other numerous things is a “bad wife”??

Well, using your idea that “it’s just a paycheck” what you stated above would have to be true as well. Fortunately, I never implied, nor agree with either.

 

[Chris_G]

Karin:

Let me clarify for all that question my choice of words…I used the words “devout Catholic” to make a point (sarcastic at that, sorry) that this is not what a “good” Catholic would do…totally goes against what the Church teaches (if I am wrong and the Church says it is ok to hit your wife please let me know).

I’m glad you see your error. Sarcasm doesn’t travel well over the internet. Refrain from it in the future and you will not get misunderstood as often.

 

[buffalo]

SemperJase:

The problem with current education enrollment is not that women are getting educated. The problem is that men are NOT getting educated. We don’t need to have less women in college, we need more men.

This is actually a tradegy for women. Most women want to cut back on hours after they have children. When their husbands can’t earn as much because they aren’t educated, women view their job as an obligation, not a choice. The woman feels as if she doesn’t have the choice to stay at home. Isn’t that exactly what happened with the example on this board?

The over-representation of women with college degrees leaves them fewer choices for a spouse. Women do not marry down. Men will marry a less educated, less financially success woman and elevate their status. That isn’t generally true of women.

That’s just not what women are attracted to. An anecdote, Halle Berry was recently overheard complaining that her new boyfriend isn’t as rich or as successful in his career as she is. In other words, she is dating down and is not satisfied. Do you ever think you would hear a male movie star make that complaint?

In spite of the occaisional exception, women don’t respect men they have to support. Men don’t have that issue supporting women.

This is pretty much what I was trying to explain. Good job! Thanks! :bowdown:

 

[Karin]

Chris G:

I’m glad you see your error. Sarcasm doesn’t travel well over the internet. Refrain from it in the future and you will not get misunderstood as often.

Nah…it (sarcasm) travels quite well if you know how to read it But thank you for the advice