Gender Roles

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Yes, I can read. And no where does it say men should earn a paycheck and wives should stay home. You completely make up that connection.

These verses are an admonishment to men and women to love each other fully and completely as God loves us. They are not to dictate who meets what family needs. If anything, they plead with both the husband and wife to look to God for discernment in all things in the marriage.

Chris G:
And let’s quote the entire Ephesians (from Chapter 5) verses while we are at it22 Wives should be subordinate to their husbands as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of his wife just as Christ is head of the church, he himself the savior of the body. 24 As the church is subordinate to Christ, so wives should be subordinate to their husbands in everything. 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ loved the church and handed himself over for her 26 to sanctify her, cleansing her by the bath of water with the word, 27 that he might present to himself the church in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish. 28 So (also) husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 For no one hates his own flesh but rather nourishes and cherishes it, even as Christ does the church, 30 because we are members of his body.
 
Rob’s Wife said:
I have never said men and women are the same. What I have said is that their differences have nothing to do with who should do what for the family. A man is perfectly capable of taking care of a child and home. But he will NOT be a “Mr. Mom” - he will a husband/dad caring for his child and home at home. Same goes for a woman working outside the house. This does not make her like a man - it makes her a wife/mother with a paying job.

Just because a woman earns a check or a man does not - does not mean they are not living according to God’s will as a husband/father or wife/mother.

This is how many a Godly couple live out Mother Teresa’s
“What I can do, you cannot.
What you can do, I cannot. But together we can do something beautiful for God.”

She isn’t saying that we should ignore are differences - she saying we should work together to do for God. I fail to see how a mother working or a dad caring for the children fails to do that.

God created them male and female. He created them different. He gave each one strengths and gifts that complement each other in His plan for them and for family.

If one sex has a special gift given by God to be used for the good of the family then that is God’s way. If God created women to be a better nurturer then that’s what He intends. Why fight it? If God created men as better nurturers than that’s how it would be. Why fight it?
 
******Oh and here’s a thought. Let’s give the “submission” idea a go here for the sake of devil’s advocate. **

Who’s to say that the woman who earns the check is not being submissive to her dh the SAHD? It seems to assumes a lot to think that just because she brings home the money she isn’t submitting to her dh.
 
Rob’s Wife said:
Yes, I can read. And no where does it say men should earn a paycheck and wives should stay home. You completely make up that connection.

These verses are an admonishment to men and women to love each other fully and completely as God loves us. They are not to dictate who meets what family needs. If anything, they plead with both the husband and wife to look to God for discernment in all things in the marriage.

Ephesians 5:33 In any case, each one of you should love his wife as himself, and the wife should respect her husband.

Why doesn’t Paul say that the wife should love her husband, instead of “and the wife should respect her husband”.
 
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buffalo:
God created them male and female. He created them different. He gave each one strengths and gifts that complement each other
I agree there.
in His plan for them and for family.
I agree to a point there. The question is: What is His plan for this particuliar man and woman and their family? He did not make us like xerox copy. He has a special plan for each of us.

If one sex has a special gift given by God to be used for the good of the family then that is God’s way. If God created women to be a better nurturer then that’s what He intends. Why fight it? If God created men as better nurturers than that’s how it would be. Why fight it?
I agree! You have yet to prove to me that one or the other is a “better nurturer” than the other. They nurture in different ways, but both are needed for the care of children. If a couple feels led to have dad stay home or mom work - why fight it?
 
Rob's Wife:
Who’s to say that the woman who earns the check is not being submissive to her dh the SAHD? It seems to assumes a lot to think that just because she brings home the money she isn’t submitting to her dh.
Yes, please tell me how I am not submissive? Please define this for me…

Does the fact that my husband would have to work 3 jobs to provide what I am able to with one mean that I am somehow a domineering woman? Them is just the cards we were delt - he is college educated, I am not. He is able bodied, I am handicapped. Things just worked out that at this time I have more earning potential, so, I earn. He loves being there each day for DS football practice and to do his algebra homework…

Please, do not keep preaching that those of us who have been blessed with happy families are somehow deviant because we don’t meet your ideal of a pretty postcard.

Grrrrrrrrr.
 
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buffalo:
Ephesians 5:33 In any case, each one of you should love his wife as himself, and the wife should respect her husband.

Why doesn’t Paul say that the wife should love her husband, instead of “and the wife should respect her husband”.
Because marriage for love and caring for children with love are modern day luxuries. Emotions help us do what we are supposed to do, but are not required of us.
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Buffalo:
God created them male and female. He created them different. He gave each one strengths and gifts that complement each other in His plan for them and for family.

If one sex has a special gift given by God to be used for the good of the family then that is God’s way. If God created women to be a better nurturer then that’s what He intends. Why fight it? If God created men as better nurturers than that’s how it would be. Why fight it?
I would argue the same in response. If a particular woman is a better provider and a particular man a better nurturer, and this is the way God endowed them, why should they fight it? Why not use what they have to together best provide for their family? Afterall, the Bible clearly says that we each have unique talents given to us and a responsibility to use them for the glory of God. No where does it say that God just divided us in half, then sent one group to one mold and the other to the second mold. No, he carefully endowed us each with unique gifts. Why do you try to over-simplify the majesty and greatness of the Lord to fit him into one of two boxes?
 
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buffalo:
Ephesians 5:33 In any case, each one of you should love his wife as himself, and the wife should respect her husband.

Why doesn’t Paul say that the wife should love her husband, instead of “and the wife should respect her husband”.
:banghead: Again. What does that have to do with who earn sthe paycheck or stay home with the kids? What does that have to do with gender roles? Do you honestly think I would stop respecting my dh if we decided he should stay home with the kids? Or that my husband would love me less if I earned a paycheck? (Which I have when needed, btw, and he certainly did not.)
 
Chris G:
From Mother Theresa:

I do not understand why some people are saying that women and men are exactly the same, and are denying the beautiful differences between men and women. All God’s gifts are good, but they are not all the same. As I often say to people who tell me they would like to serve the poor as I do, “What I can do, you cannot.
What you can do, I cannot. But together we can do something beautiful for God.” It is just this way with the differences between women and men.

**Mother Teresa’s Letter to the Fourth Conference on Women **
AMEN!

I agree with what Chris G and LSk are saying. Women and men are NOT interchangeable.

A great example exists in nature. We all know I should not step between a Mama bear and her cub. I will end up dead. But, if I challenge a Papa bear I will end up dead AND eaten. While I know in the bear world he is only protecting himself since he has “abandoned” his family he still is the more dangerous to deal with.

Men can nurture. They provide and protect better.
Women can provide and protect. They nurture better.

The gay agenda (and I do mean gay not homosexual) is to neuter men and women. Since we CAN do many of the same things it is their logic that male and female are irrelevant. For those here who believe they are standing up for women please do not take offense. The arguments you are presenting are nearly identical to those arguments I hear from gay activists. The only difference is when they talk about their “role in marriage” they are speaking about someone with the same sex as their own.
 
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Forest-Pine:
We can even look at tribal societies and see that women are not able to be “at home” and “nurturing” their kids. The kids are usually packed onto a back or chest like a package until they are old enough to be on their own. Then they are pretty much left to their own devices to go find some friends to play with while mom works her tail off making a fire and collecting wood and preparing meat and making weapons or going hunting or gathering or transporting the fire (as they don’t know how to make it, so they have to transport it from one place to another). “Nurturing” is not a luxury they have.
I don’t know how this is any different than what I do now?!

My son was frequently packed on my chest (in his baby bjorn) while young. He is frequently left to his own devices while I make fire and collect wood (pay the heating and other bills) prepare meat (making his lunch.) He is also either left with someone or dragged along as I go hunting and gathering (clothing and grocery shopping.) I don’t know what part of that could not be considered part of my role as his “nurturer.”

Nurture is not always about cuddling up with a book and playing on the floor. Most of the time it is about saying “not for babies” and redirecting him to his own toys 25 times in a row. By the former definition I don’t have the luxury of nurturing either!
 
Very well put!
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dafalax:
I feel strongly about gender roles primarily because i was deceived so long by the so-called “women’s movement”. Feminism is so disgustingly anti-woman and so many women buy into it because it’s propagators appeal to your emotions and pride. Basically it tells women that we are worthless unless we try to be men. A woman who wants to raise her own children instead of dumping them into daycare is weak and primitive. A man who won’t consider staying home to rear children is unreasonable and primitive. So a man is to be applauded for doing what a woman is biologically designed for and a woman is to be condemned for it. When i say biologically designed, i mean that a woman’s body is the home of the infant for it’s first 9 months of life. Her body then produces perfect food for the baby for it’s first few years. Her voice is higher pitched than the father and is easier for the baby to hear. The newborn’s eyes see just far enough at first to look into it’s mother’s eyes as he breastfeeds so they can establish a comforting bond. God in His infinite wisdom designed this and the secular world teaches it is wrong.
The second thing i really hate about the women’s movement is the sexual revolution aspect of it where it expects women to sterilize their bodies so that multiple men can use them for sex and never be responsible to them. This is so injurious psychologically to a woman that it’s criminal. It continues unchecked, though, because we can’t see psychological scars. The reason so many women buy into this lie, though, is because since the Pill became available, society has basically condoned men staying adolescents forever. It is expected of them to sleep around and never settle down. Families are “bummers”. So women have had to pick up the slack in single parent families. We can see how men in this country are becoming less responsible because we have robbed them of their God-given duties by telling them responsibility is wrong. Fewer and fewer men are going to college. Fewer and fewer men are pursuing marriage. Fewer and fewer babies are being born. And the porn industry is fluorishing. We have a country of manly women running things and adolescent men treating them as sex objects. Is that what you were looking for? :mad:
 
God created us male OR female and increasingly all scientific evidence shows that we are what God intended us to be - completely different. We have different roles to perform and are designed accordingly. Humans foster their offspring longer than any other species. It’s as if puppies and kittens were dependent on their parents until they were 4 years old! Horses stand up and walk on their first day of life. Compare that to our children. If God had intended us to be the same and interchangible, He would have created as bisexual hermaphrodites - creatures capable of fully functioning as male and female. Instead he designed half of us to be mostly concerned with bearing and raising children and the other half to support them. Imagine a world in which everyone between 20 and 40 was pregnant most of the time. Until the 20th century that was how it was for most married women. They needed the support of others including those who could reproduce without being pregnant. Men have a large role to play that goes way beyond being just sperm providers. That is what marriage does - it changes sperm providers into fathers. If men and women are identical and interchangible except for reproductive functions, then men can be seen as largely redundant. If women are as good or better at everything than men, then women will get stuck doing everything. As we have seen in our brave new world, women, children and good men are the losers. Men are different from women in many respects - we can reproduce without being pregnant; we’re designed to be taller and have greater muscle mass; more or more scientific evidence shows that we think differently from women; we are more inclinded to take risks. Men and women are specialized beings with entirely different roles to play in the family. Christian marriage recognizes and respects that fact and is designed to bring out the best and get the most out of everyone.
 
I don’t think all marriages are of cookie cutter types. God doesn’t seem to work that way with anything…

I work to support my family. My husband stays at home to raise the children. Is he a better nurturer? Maybe not…but he is darn good with his kids. God brought me a husband with a high school diploma and a few college courses under his belt. He never knew what he wanted to do so he stopped spending money on college and got a job. I have a MBA. You tell me whose earning potential is higher. And he and I work together with regards to rearing the children and keeping the household. He has just as much say in how our money is spent, what is done as I do…if not more so. I don’t use it as a power thing anymore than he would if he were the one working.

I love my husband and I don’t think he’s a wimp at all. He DOES provide for our family by providing a nurturing environment for our children. He DOES provide for our family by helping to keep our household sane while I’m at work. Providing for one’s family is not solely equal to monetary means. I don’t think he’s shirking any duties by switching up roles with me. If anything, he has the harder job! Heck, it’s usually him that is more thoughtful when we discern adding children because he is the one that is caring for them most of the day. I’m currently pregnant with our third child and we’re thrilled, but we make all those decisions together just like a “traditional” family/couple would.

Sure, the ideal would be for me to be at home, but God gave me a husband who could do a wonderful job with that and gave me talents that can be used in the workforce. I support the traditional ideal of the mom staying home…if my situation were to change (i.e., my husband got a job with a salary that equaled mine) I’d switch it up in a heartbeat. But, our children are cared for by a parent at home…which is what we find to be a most important thing.

I don’t know whether to be offended that someone might think my situation supports a gay agenda. I don’t know why God gave me the situation that He did, but I’m finished fighting with Him about it…and I’m ready to do my best to glorify Him in the way He called me.
 
Michelle in KC:
Sure, the ideal would be for me to be at home, but God gave me a husband who could do a wonderful job with that and gave me talents that can be used in the workforce. I support the traditional ideal of the mom staying home…if my situation were to change (i.e., my husband got a job with a salary that equaled mine) I’d switch it up in a heartbeat. But, our children are cared for by a parent at home…which is what we find to be a most important thing.

I don’t know whether to be offended that someone might think my situation supports a gay agenda. I don’t know why God gave me the situation that He did, but I’m finished fighting with Him about it…and I’m ready to do my best to glorify Him in the way He called me.
Your situation and presentation of it do NOT support the gay agenda. You specifically note that your husband is a good nurturer, while at the same time saying he is probably not “better” than you even though he is the one at home. You also state that the IDEAL would be for you to be at home and him working. These are all statements that support the notion that there are different roles for men and women. We all fill our roles the best we have with the circumstances we are presented with.

I applaud you being pregnant and working outside the home. It was tough on my body being pregnant and I remember thanking God that I didn’t have to work outside my home. (I have a home-based business.) I know that women who work outside jobs have it tougher during those times. You can leave the housework at home but you cannot leave your pregnancy at home!

The ideas that support the gay agenda are the ideas that men and women can fulfill each role in an identical manner. Women can work and men can nurture. What I am saying is it is best done in the reverse since those are our natural roles. My own sister is primary bread-winner in her family. She would give up a high paying engineering job in a snap if her husband could support them alone.
 
Michelle in KC:
I don’t think all marriages are of cookie cutter types. God doesn’t seem to work that way with anything…

I work to support my family. My husband stays at home to raise the children. Is he a better nurturer? Maybe not…but he is darn good with his kids. God brought me a husband with a high school diploma and a few college courses under his belt…
Unlike my husband, I have a college degree. I am in a better position to support our family financially. DH stays home and supports the family in different ways. I too am pregnant with our third child. It is wonderful to know I am not alone!
 
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LittleDeb:
Your situation and presentation of it do NOT support the gay agenda. You specifically note that your husband is a good nurturer, while at the same time saying he is probably not “better” than you even though he is the one at home. You also state that the IDEAL would be for you to be at home and him working. These are all statements that support the notion that there are different roles for men and women. We all fill our roles the best we have with the circumstances we are presented with.
As someone once told me, “No matter how hard your DH tries, there’s no way he’d be able to breastfeed the children.”
:rotfl: :rotfl:

that’s the one part I wish I could definitely change…it would definitely be easier to breastfeed if I were at home.
 
No one here is blind to the obvious fact that men and women as God created them have distinct differences. However, there seems to be a strange assumption that merely because a human being is endowed with a uterus, she is, de facto, a good nurturer–or–that because another has a penis, he should be out in the world, making money, and acting as the leader with respect to faith and other decision making of the family. No two women are identical in their talents, interests, passions or abilities. Nor are men. It significantly short-changes and demeans the variation and diversity of the talents and gifts with which God endows us to assume that human beings are born into only one of two possible roles. I fail to see how anyone could find it tolerable, much less desirable or holy, to suggest that the best way to glorify God and fully utilize His gifts is to pidgeon-hole individuals into some notion of “appropriate” roles based on nothing more than their gender.
 
The ideas that support the gay agenda are the ideas that men and women can fulfill each role in an identical manner
Actually, I’ve gone out of my way to make the point that they do NOT fulfill roles in an identical manner.

What I have said is they are both capable of taking care of children or earning a paycheck - although the ways they do it may differ, either job is still being done with love and care for their families.

 
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buffalo:
A man has a natural desire to be a provider and protector of his family. This is what gives him respect and keeps him motivated. He will work as many jobs as it takes. He will be dedicated to his family.

If his family appreciates this and works within the budget they wil prosper.
My father worked 16-hour days, often 7 days per week at his factory job when I was a child. I know that between mortgage, my Catholic schooling, etc. they still barely made ends meet at times. And along with that, I barely saw my father- when he was home, he was asleep, and Mom got all of the childrearing jobs, plus all of the housework, yardwork, errands, bills, you name it. Alas, when I was about 10 years old, Mom got a job. All of a sudden, Dad was able to work 6-2 on weekdays, which allowed him time to pick me up from school, bring me home, and get dinner started before Mom got home. He was home on most weekends, so we could all have daytrips or even just hang out as a family. We could go to Mass together on Sunday. Mom was happier because she could contribute to the finances and be around other women her age, Dad was happier because he actually could watch sports on the weekend or read books or pursue his new hobby of cooking. I was happier because I regularly saw both parents.

Don’t get me wrong, I am grateful that my parents both worked so hard when I was young to do what they felt was right. But I really wish Mom had gone back to work sooner so I could have had more time with Dad. My husband and I have already decided that we will do what it takes (provided God blesses us with any children) to ensure that both parents are involved in all aspects of childrearing and the home. It may mean one of us going on part-time. It may mean that we take different shifts so someone is always home. But I will not have my children deprived of one parent with the other parent bearing the vast majority of the home responsibilities.
 
Very true! Just because a woman can use her breast to feed, does make her a more “nurturing” parent. I love and kiss on my dc, my dh is more likely to wrestle with them and tickle - both are very nurturing acts. Neither is less affectionate.

Getting a job doesn’t mean the mother is no longer going to be nurturing to her dc. Anymore than my dh working is an excuse to be less than affection to his dc.
Island Oak:
No one here is blind to the obvious fact that men and women as God created them have distinct differences. However, there seems to be a strange assumption that merely because a human being is endowed with a uterus, she is, de facto, a good nurturer–or–that because another has a penis, he should be out in the world, making money, and acting as the leader with respect to faith and other decision making of the family. No two women are identical in their talents, interests, passions or abilities. Nor are men. It significantly short-changes and demeans the variation and diversity of the talents and gifts with which God endows us to assume that human beings are born into only one of two possible roles. I fail to see how anyone could find it tolerable, much less desirable or holy, to suggest that the best way to glorify God and fully utilize His gifts is to pidgeon-hole individuals into some notion of “appropriate” roles based on nothing more than their gender.
 
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