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carol_marie
Guest
I wonder if by loser he meant a guy who takes off & leaves his wife & kids high & dry? Like a deadbeat dad?
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Karin
Guest
carol marie:
That is what I thought when I read the post
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Forest-Pine
Guest
Chris G:
My mom and dad both enjoy sewing. My dad prefers counted cross stitch, but he also made some fabulous draperies one time as a surprise. I cringed growing up if Mom was in the kitchen and trying to “make” dinner. Her expertise was fish sticks and mac and cheese. Dad made some yummy stuff. And ohhh how he can bake! My mother is skilled in other areas such as cleaning (which my dad didn’t touch), yard work, decorating, running errands (which frustrated my dad to no end), etc. His cooking does not all of a sudden make me not have a proper picture of manhood. I have a proper picture of marriage–give and take, putting your two strengths together to form one family, etc.
Another set of grandparents are pure country. He stayed at home and worked the ranch while she had a career outside the home. Is he all of a sudden a bad dad? Effeminate? I’d like to see you say that to his face.
I am no liberal, by any stretch of the word. However, I do not think that men refusing to talk about female topics is inherent, but learned.
My husband did not grow up like I did. Topics were taboo to discuss. Men weren’t supposed to show emotions. Everything was bottled up. Overall, it was very unhealthy. He was a quesy about discussions concerning female anatomy, for example, when we had a little one. However, now that she is older, he has no problem in dealing with it. It has become second nature to use the proper terminology for body parts, to pick up whatever is on the shopping list if he is the one going, to walk into a bra shop with me and feel comfortable with who he is, etc. He is definitely not mistaken for feminine, but he also is not the other extreme and all “That’s Not My Job” either.
Gender classifications are so random. Whose job is it to plant flowers? I know one person who would say it is “decorations,” so it is a woman’s job. I know another that would say it is “outside” so it is a man’s job. I would say that if you want flowers planted, that you as a couple decide the best method to get them planted and that as long as you both agree and are happy with the means and the end, that you’ve come up with a good solution. That might mean the husband, the wife, the kids, the neighbor, a professional, whomever.
If you want to raise happy and healthy children, again you must come up together with the best way to do so. There isn’t a single answer on planting some mums, so there sure as heck isn’t a blanket statement on the only way to raise kids, either.
This was never my experience. My grandfather was the one who took me bra shopping the first time. He also cooked dinner the majority of the time. And he did the grocery shopping, so he picked out the right type of feminine products. Both my grandparents had high level professions. Topics such as medical issues, sex, drugs, etc were openly discussed in a polite, direct, age-appropriate way from an early age. I grew up with a picture of adulthood, parenthood, and responsibility firmly planted in my head.
My mom and dad both enjoy sewing. My dad prefers counted cross stitch, but he also made some fabulous draperies one time as a surprise. I cringed growing up if Mom was in the kitchen and trying to “make” dinner. Her expertise was fish sticks and mac and cheese. Dad made some yummy stuff. And ohhh how he can bake! My mother is skilled in other areas such as cleaning (which my dad didn’t touch), yard work, decorating, running errands (which frustrated my dad to no end), etc. His cooking does not all of a sudden make me not have a proper picture of manhood. I have a proper picture of marriage–give and take, putting your two strengths together to form one family, etc.
Another set of grandparents are pure country. He stayed at home and worked the ranch while she had a career outside the home. Is he all of a sudden a bad dad? Effeminate? I’d like to see you say that to his face.
I am no liberal, by any stretch of the word. However, I do not think that men refusing to talk about female topics is inherent, but learned.
My husband did not grow up like I did. Topics were taboo to discuss. Men weren’t supposed to show emotions. Everything was bottled up. Overall, it was very unhealthy. He was a quesy about discussions concerning female anatomy, for example, when we had a little one. However, now that she is older, he has no problem in dealing with it. It has become second nature to use the proper terminology for body parts, to pick up whatever is on the shopping list if he is the one going, to walk into a bra shop with me and feel comfortable with who he is, etc. He is definitely not mistaken for feminine, but he also is not the other extreme and all “That’s Not My Job” either.
Gender classifications are so random. Whose job is it to plant flowers? I know one person who would say it is “decorations,” so it is a woman’s job. I know another that would say it is “outside” so it is a man’s job. I would say that if you want flowers planted, that you as a couple decide the best method to get them planted and that as long as you both agree and are happy with the means and the end, that you’ve come up with a good solution. That might mean the husband, the wife, the kids, the neighbor, a professional, whomever.
If you want to raise happy and healthy children, again you must come up together with the best way to do so. There isn’t a single answer on planting some mums, so there sure as heck isn’t a blanket statement on the only way to raise kids, either.
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LSK
Guest
My grandmother was born in Italy, the eldest of 13. At the age of 9 she was put into her first ‘position’ as a skullery maid for a wealthy family in town. Word got back to her father quickly that she was being abused at her position, but in those days she was ‘contracted’ (read 'sold) and could not leave the position until the ‘contract’ was finished. Her father crept to her window in the middle of the night, threw pebbles at her window, and rescued her from the household.
But the family still had to eat…so she was taken to the next town where she was put into a position as a skullery maid for a wonderful family. She worked there for the next seven years. She worked her way up to the position of ‘Ladies Maid’. She learned to speak six languages, the master of the house would read the Holy Scriptures and the Classics to the family and the servants each night, she learned to cook, she travelled, etc. She met her first husband and married and had her first two children. He came to America. She joined him, hand her third child. He died, as did her oldest child. Suddenly, she was a widow with two young children and her only skill was as a cook and as a ladies’ maid. Hmmmm.
She secured a position as a cook for the workers on my great-grandparents’ dairy and walnut ranch. She met my grandfather. They moved, bought their own ranch. She had the rest of their children…all girls and one boy. Every one of her girl children were raised to go to college and get a position - not a job, a position - so that if something EVER happened to their husbands they would be able to support their children without having to do something like cook or clean … in other words, long before it was fashionable, she prepared them to be able to face the world without having to depend upon a man to bring home the bacon (so to speak).
As a result, all of her daughters raised their children and worked outside the home. My aunts were (respectively) a legal secretary, a principle of a high school, a private business woman and my mother retired as the vice president of a savings and loan. They were good, solid Catholic women. My mother, in particular, is a living saint - but I could be a little bit biased.
I think the point my grandmother made is that God intends for us to use our time and talents, to not expect hand outs and to be prepared for the unexpected. We were raised to rely upon Him but not to just sit on our butts and cry … the world can be a tough and cruel place, but with hard work, and Our Lady as a guide, we can get through it, without losing our Faith or our love for the Truth and for the Word Incarnate.
BTW - my mother is 84 and was the youngest…so this forward thinking Grandmother of mine was definitely of another generation…
But the family still had to eat…so she was taken to the next town where she was put into a position as a skullery maid for a wonderful family. She worked there for the next seven years. She worked her way up to the position of ‘Ladies Maid’. She learned to speak six languages, the master of the house would read the Holy Scriptures and the Classics to the family and the servants each night, she learned to cook, she travelled, etc. She met her first husband and married and had her first two children. He came to America. She joined him, hand her third child. He died, as did her oldest child. Suddenly, she was a widow with two young children and her only skill was as a cook and as a ladies’ maid. Hmmmm.
She secured a position as a cook for the workers on my great-grandparents’ dairy and walnut ranch. She met my grandfather. They moved, bought their own ranch. She had the rest of their children…all girls and one boy. Every one of her girl children were raised to go to college and get a position - not a job, a position - so that if something EVER happened to their husbands they would be able to support their children without having to do something like cook or clean … in other words, long before it was fashionable, she prepared them to be able to face the world without having to depend upon a man to bring home the bacon (so to speak).
As a result, all of her daughters raised their children and worked outside the home. My aunts were (respectively) a legal secretary, a principle of a high school, a private business woman and my mother retired as the vice president of a savings and loan. They were good, solid Catholic women. My mother, in particular, is a living saint - but I could be a little bit biased.
I think the point my grandmother made is that God intends for us to use our time and talents, to not expect hand outs and to be prepared for the unexpected. We were raised to rely upon Him but not to just sit on our butts and cry … the world can be a tough and cruel place, but with hard work, and Our Lady as a guide, we can get through it, without losing our Faith or our love for the Truth and for the Word Incarnate.
BTW - my mother is 84 and was the youngest…so this forward thinking Grandmother of mine was definitely of another generation…
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Rob_s_Wife
Guest
Chris G:
It is NOT the responsibility of the couple as to how the family should work. God has already decided for us. He made women the nurturers. Men the natural breadwinners. It makes no difference it the woman could earn better $, better benefits, etc.
Really. Can to tell me where you get that God dictated that? Sounds more like a Ward and June Cleaver sterotype to me.
The best thing you can do for your children is to give them the best example of a family that you can. Dad goes to work, Mom stays home with the children. We can’t continue to deny the Motherly instinct to mother and the Fatherly instinct to provide and protect.
Instead of trying to ignore our strenghts and weaknesses we need to celebrate them. It’s nothing to be ashamed of. Women make better Moms. Men make better Dads.
A woman is a mother because that is the english word for the female parent of a child. A man is a dad for the same reason. A man is not less of a man or a father biblicly or otherwise just because he changes more diapers or vacuums. Same goes for women. This is not a denial of either sexes natural abilities. The instinct to provide, protect, and nurture your children has nothing to do with what gender you are - it is the reflexive urge of any parent who loves their child. It has nothing to with which one makes dinner or earns the paycheck.
Of course in extenuating circumstances the Mom may need to take a job and help out while Dad finds that elusive job. And Dad may need to pitch in a do a bit of Mothering while she’s away. But it is far from the ideal.
That’s insulting to every man who loves his family, imo. A dad helping out around the house or with the kids is NOT babysitting or substituting for mom! He is being a husband and father. And that is the making for a good man.
There is a reason Dads don’t feel comfortable talking about “girl” issues with their daughters and Moms arent’ comfortable talking about “boy” issues with their sons.
**What’s that got to do with the topic?? And for the record - not everyone feels that way. Being on my 11th pregnancy - both my dh and I have learned how to handle just about any question from any child of any gender.**
Ok libbers, fire away.
sigh only on catholic answers would I ever be called a “libber”!
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SemperJase
Guest
Rob’s Wife said:
Sex has a lot to do with which spouse takes care of the children. Women are much more likely to wake up in the middle of the night when a baby is crying. Men are more likely to sleep right through it. Much of that is biology (men don’t breastfeed) there is no biological reason for them to wake up.
Taking care of children is wired into women more than men. That is why women feed more (for obvious reasons) change more diapers and give more nuturing.
You can give examples of stay at home dads but they are the minority and always will be for two reasons.
- Men are made with the drive to provide in terms of money (food) and security.
- Women are not attracted to stay at home dads. A man staying home with the kids just isn’t sexy for most women. While it may be necessary for short times, it isn’t healthy for most marriages long term.
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Karin
Guest
Sex has a lot to do with which spouse takes care of the children. Women are much more likely to wake up in the middle of the night when a baby is crying. LOL!! I guess i am in the minority …I do not hear the baby cry in the middle of the night and never have!! Men are more likely to sleep right through it. Once again not the case in our family…the hubby gets upMuch of that is biology (men don’t breastfeed) there is no biological reason for them to wake up. I breastfeed but I also pumped for thos enight time feedings…this way the hubby could feed the baby and bond and I could sleep
Taking care of children is wired into women more than men.** LOL!!! I have to work at taking care of the kids…at times I would rather be anyplace but at home playing Susie Homemaker **
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SemperJase
Guest
Karin said:
I’m glad it works for you. But you are definitely in the minority. As I said, there are exceptions.
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Karin
Guest
At times I would rather be the minority than the majority
especially when that means I can sleep at night:thumbsup:
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Asella
Guest
I just wanted to add my own personal story to this. Growing up in the 80’s, I was always given the message that women could do anything men could do and men could do anything women could do (my parents did not send me this message–society did). I grew up in an age where it was fashionable for women to wear business suits that were very masculine in nature (and the huge shoulder pads made them even less feminine). Many women were seeking careers. At school the teachers and guidance counselors told us to think about college. They told us about all the options that were out there for us, but the word “homemaker” never came up. My guidance counselor met with each one of us to help direct us towards a career. When he met with me I told him I didn’t know what I wanted to do. After high school I attended college briefly. I remember looking through my college course catalog, desperately trying to find the career that was right for me. Deep down, I yearned to be the woman God had created me to be–I wanted to be a wife, a mother, and a homemaker. But since society frowned upon this, I felt forced to find a career for myself. I quit college and entered the work force. I got married, and I continued to work. I soon became very depressed because I felt I was not being the sort of wife that God was calling me to be. I wanted to do all the tasks that are considered feminine–cooking, cleaning, sewing, etc. I felt stripped of my femininity. After a year of marriage, we found out that I was infertile–and again, I felt more of my womanhood had been taken from me. The feminine part of me was gone, and it caused great pain and suffering. I finally quit my job to become a full time homemaker. I still have no children, and there will always be an emptiness because of that, but I feel feminine again. I contribute to my small family in a way my husband cannot. And he brings to the household things that I cannot bring. That is what makes us unique as male and female. I have gotten much ridicule from others because of my choice to be a homemaker. Society has conditioned us to believe that the roles of men and women are interchangeable, but I’ve found that I’m most at peace when I embrace my femininity and take on the roles most suited for women. This may not be true for every woman, but it was for me. That’s my 2 cents.
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SemperJase
Guest
OK, you might not be that unusual.
My wife made it very clear, I will be helping with the midnight feedings part when we are blessed with a child.
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Princess_Abby
Guest
I wish your grandmother had written a memoir. I would love to read more about such a fascinating life–ordinary but extraordinary.
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Chris_G
Guest
Whoa! Settle down there. I never said nor implied that they were. I thought it was obvious, but since it apparently was not I’ll expand: Loser = Deadbeat Dad that sits around the house, neglecting his children and his wife, doesn’t bother to work or support in any way.
Doing it Gods way is what works best regardless of my opinion or yours. No it’s not in the 10 commandments. All of Gods revelation to man can’t be found in just the 10 commandments. It can, however be found in His Church. And the IDEAL situation is a Mother that stays at home and a Father that provides. That is why Mothers get pregnant and Dads don’t. God made it that way, I didn’t.
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Chris_G
Guest
carol marie:
Exactly what I meant. I thought I was clear. Thanks for letting me know I haven’t lost my mind here.
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Chris_G
Guest
Yup! That’s what I meant.That is what I thought when I read the post
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Chris_G
Guest
Obviously staying at home “working the ranch” is not what we are talking about here. Any man that stays at “home” and works the ranch is obviously providing for his family. Provided I understand what “ranch” you are talking about.
Nobody said anything about “refusing” to talk about female topics. I have talked to my daughters at ease about “feminine” topics. Even went to the store with them to buy certain products that some men blush at. It was out of necessity. I didn’t have a problem at all with it. But Mom does it better. She does have the same equipment after all!
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Chris_G
Guest
Rob’s Wife said:
Never said it was babysitting. Amazing how people put words into my statements and then proceed to pounce on them. Of course helping out around the house and helping with the kids is what a good Father does. I never said otherwise.
Mother is more that just an English word. Father is more that just an English word. They are words that are used to sum up our distinct gender identities. As Jesus said on the cross “Mother, behold your son. Son, behold your Mother”.
As far as how Jesus helps steer us back into the gender roles he intended, look no further than to the Church He established. Read up on JPII thoughts on family and how our culture has reduced it what it is today.
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Chris_G
Guest
Thank you for sharing that Asella. I wish more of our society would take heed to your story.
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kaymart
Guest
I was both working woman and traditional stay at home mom. I was never happy in the working woman role, when we made the decsion to stay home I never looked back and I am truly happy being the woman, wife, and mother that God intended me to be.
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migurl
Guest
I find that I agree with everything Chris G has said. Read the books “Three to get Married” by Fulron J. Sheen, it talks a lot about this stuff. Men are called to be like Christ and or St. Joseph while women are called to be like Mary. She was the perfect Mother, so all women should strive to be like her. Yes, there are occasions when that cannot happen perfectly, but I have learned from people that I know, that women who stay home feel fulfilled adn tired, but a grateful tired. They have more time for their families, themselves, their friends, their relationships with others and their relationship with God. It is much easier to hear God when you don’t have your career popping into your head all the time. Work can take you away from God sometimes because it takes up time and in most cases religion is not welcomed at work. Men for the most part fall asleep at night grateful that they have provided for their loved ones, knowing that it is God’s will, and knowing that they have given back to those that they love the most. If these roles are switched or incomplete, their tends to be imbalance. I mean, who takes care of the kids? Who is there to make sure meals are good and healthy? Who is there to take care of sick kids? Who has the time to help with projects and homework? Who is there to insure that the home is a haven for the family? I have heard my father, and even my mom and 16 yr old brother, heck, I’ve even thought it, “I wish I could go back to work” or “Why did I bother coming home?” I hate these lines, and yet, I hear them a lot. In my family (when I get married) I will be home to make sure that when my husband and kids come home that they enjoy it, that when it’s getting close to 3 or 5 o’clock, my kids and my husband think to themselves “I can’t wait to get home.”
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