Genesis of social justice

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Hi, Cdeterma,

Royal Archer had a much better idea then I had! 😃
Hey your right. I should not be a landlord or a moneylender. I’ll just evict all my tennants and have an empty building. I won’t Loan and money either I 'll put it under the matress and take it out of circulation. That should really help the economy.

All that is necessary is to make just a slight modification in that idea … so… here goes: 😃

Instead of burning that green-stuff … and creating another problem for the environment… just send it to me! Yep! I have this incredible shredder … no, not the one in the house that I use for paper … I mean my wallet … It shreds all the money I put in there - yours will be treated exactly the same! I promise! :p:

Now THAT is hyhperbole! 😃

Best wishes,

Tom
 
Hi, AthairSiochain,

Truly amazing how landlords and banks has fixated your every response. But, let me show you where it comes up short! :eek:
If my argument is fixed on landlords and moneylenders, your argument brings up communism. as I have said before Capitalism and Communism both exploit those who do the real work, you ask me to fill you in with all the details of the new system that would be created without landlords and moneylenders.

When cancer is cured. a new life begins,

In America it would be fair to say-- hundreds of Trillions of Dollars of property equity was created over the last ten years. that money never existed, yet it was used as security,

Now if we were to use another way to create that kind of money .it could be used to benefit the planet and all CREATURES GREAT AND SMALL,

THE HISTORY OF COLLECTING RENT AND INTEREST GOES BACK OVER 2000YEARS. NOTHING HAS CHANGED , THE COLLECTORS ARE STILLIN POWER,

The oil slick threatening the coast. again blind greed is at fault,
 
AthairSiochain,

Rave on.

A person cured fo cancer can return to their former life - but, that means we have a former life to look at. You have simply evaded the question again with an obtuse statement. There is no example that exists in reality that embraces your economic theories to get rid of landlords or bankers. If there were, you would have identified the country when asked the first time - as opposed to avoiding the issue for the third time.

The next time you ride in a motor vehicle - or use natural gas - or turn on a light swithch, remember that blind greed is something you are directly benefitting from. :eek:

Since there has been no response to my questions, I have nothing further to say.

God bless

Tom
If my argument is fixed on landlords and moneylenders, your argument brings up communism. as I have said before Capitalism and Communism both exploit those who do the real work, you ask me to fill you in with all the details of the new system that would be created without landlords and moneylenders.

When cancer is cured. a new life begins,

In America it would be fair to say-- hundreds of Trillions of Dollars of property equity was created over the last ten years. that money never existed, yet it was used as security,

Now if we were to use another way to create that kind of money .it could be used to benefit the planet and all CREATURES GREAT AND SMALL,

THE HISTORY OF COLLECTING RENT AND INTEREST GOES BACK OVER 2000YEARS. NOTHING HAS CHANGED , THE COLLECTORS ARE STILLIN POWER,

The oil slick threatening the coast. again blind greed is at fault,
 
CARRY OUT YOUR THREAT AND YOU WILL HAVE TO GET A REAL JOB!!! –

HELPING THE ECONOMY with money you recieve from a tenant, thats fine for you,
First of all I do have a real job. That’s how I got the money to invest in property. Secondly it helps the tenant too, otherwise he or she wouldn’t have a place to stay.

In fact at one time I worked three jobs, went to night school, and raised three kids. That’s why I don’t want to help people who won’t help themselves. I am tired of being the ant while all the grasshoppers have there hands stuck out. (the story of the ant and the grasshopper?)
 
First of all I do have a real job. That’s how I got the money to invest in property. Secondly it helps the tenant too, otherwise he or she wouldn’t have a place to stay.

In fact at one time I worked three jobs, went to night school, and raised three kids. That’s why I don’t want to help people who won’t help themselves. I am tired of being the ant while all the grasshoppers have there hands stuck out. (the story of the ant and the grasshopper?)
Had you not become the official owner of the property, you would have missed out on all that money handed out by the tenant,

tenants are ANTS they work hard, because they have to support two families. theirs and the landlords,

landlords are grasshoppers
 
AthairSiochain

The next time you ride in a motor vehicle - or use natural gas - or turn on a light swithch, remember that blind greed is something you are directly benefitting from. :eek:

Since there has been no response to my questions, I have nothing further to say.

God bless

Tom
landlords and moneylenders created the system, and we are not allowed to live outside that system, each and everyone of us have to grab what ever we can to survive, so what is wrong with changing the life jacket.

Its like being out in the middle of the Ocean and your only life jacket is owned by a greedy landlord,

have a nice day
 
landlords and moneylenders created the system, and we are not allowed to live outside that system, each and everyone of us have to grab what ever we can to survive, so what is wrong with changing the life jacket.

Its like being out in the middle of the Ocean and your only life jacket is owned by a greedy landlord,

have a nice day
I have had to sell several pieces of property and never once required the buyer to go through a money lender. If you choose not to take advantagfe of those offers, it is your fault, not ours.
 
I have had to sell several pieces of property and never once required the buyer to go through a money lender. If you choose not to take advantagfe of those offers, it is your fault, not ours.
YOU COULD HAVE SOLD ON VENDORS TERMS this way you collect the interest, my argument is landlords use tenants as a tool , to finance their pleasurable lifestyle.

Landlords will tell you they are giving something in return for thr rent,
tenants give, this can be measured by the growing pile of money on the richmans table, just like a hole in the ground , the more you take away (from the tenant) the bigger it gets,
 
YOU COULD HAVE SOLD ON VENDORS TERMS this way you collect the interest, my argument is landlords use tenants as a tool , to finance their pleasurable lifestyle.

Landlords will tell you they are giving something in return for thr rent,
tenants give, this can be measured by the growing pile of money on the richmans table, just like a hole in the ground , the more you take away (from the tenant) the bigger it gets,
I was willing to sell on what ever terms the buyer wished as long as I was paid fair market value.

So do you have an equal probem with other resources that are provided through rental agreements or is it just land?
 
YOU COULD HAVE SOLD ON VENDORS TERMS this way you collect the interest, my argument is landlords use tenants as a tool , to finance their pleasurable lifestyle.

Landlords will tell you they are giving something in return for thr rent,
tenants give, this can be measured by the growing pile of money on the richmans table, just like a hole in the ground , the more you take away (from the tenant) the bigger it gets,
On the contrary my friend, tenants use landlords as a tool, how else would they be able to have a home? If a person either does not have the capital or will to own property they have the luxury of being able to rent. If the owner did not have money he would not be able to provide this service. So do you say that all land lords should simply stop providing this service on some kind of weird moral ground? How then will people who do not have the will or capital or credit to own a residence acquire one? Or is that when a person will loot his/her neighbor, using the government as their tool, and demand housing for themselves?
 
On the contrary my friend, tenants use landlords as a tool, how else would they be able to have a home? If a person either does not have the capital or will to own property they have the luxury of being able to rent. If the owner did not have money he would not be able to provide this service. So do you say that all land lords should simply stop providing this service on some kind of weird moral ground? How then will people who do not have the will or capital or credit to own a residence acquire one? Or is that when a person will loot his/her neighbor, using the government as their tool, and demand housing for themselves?
It’s the degree to which landlords charge well beyond what they need to to make an adequate return. Poorer tenants end up paying 2/3 of their income away in rent. They’ve got no close by alternative. Captured market.

Many will buy 10+ properties with the help of the banks, pushing up house prices for first time buyers.
 
It’s the degree to which landlords charge well beyond what they need to to make an adequate return. Poorer tenants end up paying 2/3 of their income away in rent. They’ve got no close by alternative. Captured market.

Many will buy 10+ properties with the help of the banks, pushing up house prices for first time buyers.
Try being a landlord. You will think differently. There is lots of competition, maintenance costs, the house payment, having to deal with vacancies, trying to find a good renter, etc.

Of course poor tenants are paying 2/3 of their income on rent, they are poor. But without the ability to rent, these people would be on the streets. Yes they do have an alternative, educate themselves and get a better job, rent from a lesser home while building up savings to buy a home, or demand their neighbors pay for their home.
 
Try being a landlord. You will think differently. There is lots of competition, maintenance costs, the house payment, having to deal with vacancies, trying to find a good renter, etc.

Of course poor tenants are paying 2/3 of their income on rent, they are poor. But without the ability to rent, these people would be on the streets. Yes they do have an alternative, educate themselves and get a better job, rent from a lesser home while building up savings to buy a home, or demand their neighbors pay for their home.
I have to agree with TenBobNote. I have been witness to the headaches that friends of mine suffered who rented a house they owned. Renters would trash the house; fail to pay the rent; fail to pay utilities, etc. etc.

I lived many years as an apartment renter and was grateful for having a decent place to rent. My landlord had fair rental prices; the maintenance men would fix things when they broke; and it suited my living situation perfectly at the time.

Sometimes renting makes more sense than buying. Buying a house is a big commitment in time and money. It also requires a person to ā€˜stay put’ in an area, limiting their options for moving towards opportunities that may arise. Buying requires that if the owner wants to move, they must sell, which isn’t always easy or even possible - or take on the headaches of being a landlord. It’s not for everyone.
 
I was willing to sell on what ever terms the buyer wished as long as I was paid fair market value.

So do you have an equal probem with other resources that are provided through rental agreements or is it just land?
100% LANDLORD answer, devoid of common sense,

Fair Market Value ----- equals the amount arrived at by those blinded by greed…
…the market place is organised by landlords.
. the market place is policed by landlords,

The higher the rent the higher the price of the investment. SO IN THE EYES OF A GREEDY LANDLORD IT MAKES SENSE TO FORCE RENTS UP,
 
On the contrary my friend, tenants use landlords as a tool, how else would they be able to have a home? If a person either does not have the capital or will to own property they have the luxury of being able to rent. If the owner did not have money he would not be able to provide this service. So do you say that all land lords should simply stop providing this service on some kind of weird moral ground? How then will people who do not have the will or capital or credit to own a residence acquire one? Or is that when a person will loot his/her neighbor, using the government as their tool, and demand housing for themselves?
ANOTHER LANDLORD ANSWER with the same selfish thinking.

Why should landlords own properties that are paid for by some one else?.. if we had no landlords the cost of a home would be affordable, because the home would belong to the person who actually pays for it-----,
I know of a family home that cost $20.000 20yrs ago , today the landlord controlled market place has put a investment value of $460.000 on the property---- the annual rent is $24960 $460 a week ----that’s more than the property cost 20yrs ago , this house has deteriorated with age so have the tenants comforts, yet the investment value created by greed has gone up because of today’s weekly rental return of $480, property investors do not buy to help homeless people, they buy out of pure greed, they know that their kind (landlords and moneylenders) have total power being the majority in government and the legal system, they have all the ends tied up , where is the social justice in this activity, of collecting rent and interest…

Tenants do not get for what they pay for , they do not get any extra comforts when the rents rise" because the cost of buying a investment has risen,",
 
Hi, Cynic,

You have brought up an interesting focus… just how does someone else determine what is another’s person’s adequate return on their investment?
It’s the degree to which landlords charge well beyond what they need to to make an adequate return.

Would this be in any way comparable to me telling you that you are making too much money at where you work, or too much interst at where you save, or too much of a dividend from the companies that you invest in? Seriously, Cynic, wouldn’t you think that you are not making too much … in fact, you haven’t gotten an increase in pay and interst for savers has been almost ā€œ0ā€ and the stock market has been in the doldrums for over 18 months!

Poorer tenants end up paying 2/3 of their income away in rent. They’ve got no close by alternative. Captured market.

Maybe … but, this really appears to be saying is that a coin has only one side! Who can determine if someone is spending what ever fraction of their income they get on rent? Could it be that they got an apartment in a particular section of town, or with a particualr view, or has additional bedrooms or whatever? Seriously, there are some things people are willing to spend trade off to have other things. While 2/3 does seem excessive to me - does it include all utilities, water, sewage, basic phone and cable, covered parking, etc. We just can not pull an arbitrary percentage out and say this is wrong on the face of it. I do not know about NZ, but there is an active housing market in the US and those looking for an apt in Houston have a general map of the city laid out telling people where the apts are located, and the features and the costs.

Many will buy 10+ properties with the help of the banks, pushing up house prices for first time buyers.

Now, this is assuming a very particular set of circumstances - and appears to disregard actual market forces.

Let’s say that a builder just completes 10 houses that were pre-sold to a particular landlord … and there are no other houses for sale (the monopoly you are addressing). For this landlord to rent all 10 houses - there have to be more then 10 families wanting to rent them. Unless this landlord has an infinite amount of wealth - he may have maxed out his credit limit and still there is this desire for more housing. Don’t you think someone else will step up to the plate and do some building for tenants? I do. And, by this very fact, there will be competition.

But, let’s say that these 10 house do not rent out… let’s say only 1 or 2 do … so, now our landlord is stuck with his own monthly payments on 8 un-occupied homes. Chances are, the rents received will not cover this expense…and he will have to consider lowering his rent on the other 8 so he can get some cash flow coming in.

Finally, let’s say that half of these homes rent out - and the people who still need a place to live go to the bank and take out a mortgage on owning their own home. Now, we can argue that the only reason they are not buying is they can not affort the expenses - but, if that were always or usually true, then no one would ever buy a home. There really is more flexibility then you are giving the market system that our countries enjoy.

Landlords provide a good, needed and very valuable service. They allow people a place to live without the commitment necessary for home ownership. Is this a perfect system - NO… but, tell me what is! Here is an example of a fabled ā€˜Worker’s Paradise’…:rolleyes:

Russia was very proud (once upon a time) of the apartment buildings that they built to house the workers that they enslaved in the factories that they ran. Low rents - but shoddy conditions, poor access to reliable utilities and ever increasing amounts of crime were the prelude to buildings actually falling down due to poor materials or workmanship used in building the apartments. No one could afford to buy a home under these conditions.

God bless

Tom
 
I have to agree with TenBobNote. I have been witness to the headaches that friends of mine suffered who rented a house they owned. Renters would trash the house; fail to pay the rent; fail to pay utilities, etc. etc.

I lived many years as an apartment renter and was grateful for having a decent place to rent. My landlord had fair rental prices; the maintenance men would fix things when they broke; and it suited my living situation perfectly at the time.

Sometimes renting makes more sense than buying. Buying a house is a big commitment in time and money. It also requires a person to ā€˜stay put’ in an area, limiting their options for moving towards opportunities that may arise. Buying requires that if the owner wants to move, they must sell, which isn’t always easy or even possible - or take on the headaches of being a landlord. It’s not for everyone.
I did the land lord routine once. When I was deployed oversees I rented out a house till I could sell it. The renters trashed the place and scared off potential buyers. With the high risk, I would never rent out the property again with out a very large profit margin.
 
100% LANDLORD answer, devoid of common sense,

Fair Market Value ----- equals the amount arrived at by those blinded by greed…
…the market place is organised by landlords.
. the market place is policed by landlords,

The higher the rent the higher the price of the investment. SO IN THE EYES OF A GREEDY LANDLORD IT MAKES SENSE TO FORCE RENTS UP,
No, it makes sense to undercut the competition and generate more customers.
 
100% LANDLORD answer, devoid of common sense,

Fair Market Value ----- equals the amount arrived at by those blinded by greed…
…the market place is organised by landlords.
. the market place is policed by landlords,

The higher the rent the higher the price of the investment. SO IN THE EYES OF A GREEDY LANDLORD IT MAKES SENSE TO FORCE RENTS UP,
Can you tell me what maximum income I should make to avoid greed? Whether it is in oil or rental property…I think it is probably about the same answer, but what is it. $/year please, before taxes.
 
Hi, Markbrumbagh,

You know… I would be intersted in knowing the answer to that one, too! 😃

God bless

Tom
Can you tell me what maximum income I should make to avoid greed? Whether it is in oil or rental property…I think it is probably about the same answer, but what is it. $/year please, before taxes.
 
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