Miraculum - “object of wonder.” The universe never ceases to amaze me, and even my atheist friends among the many scientists with whom I work on a daily basis acknowledge this. They just can’t get beyond mere wonder to a belief that there might be an ontologically deeper objective reality underlying the objects within their surfacial purview.
Wildleafblower, thanks for your note. Three responses:Also, there are people who push spiritualizing christology. That’s called panetheism. Teilhard de Chardin was a panetheist. I don’t agree with his theology. I should also mention the Intelligent Design movement is based on panetheism.
This is not a conundrum for me. God is all-powerful and and all-knowing. If the biology results in this combination, then He is perfectly capable of infusing the soul (singular) at the right moment.
I say that discussing panentheism with Petrus is like wrestling with a pig. You both get muddy, but the pig likes it.
SpiritMeadow, thanks. CAF makes my brain go into overdrive as well. I love theology, as it is dynamic and stimulating. The surgery to remove the four limbs of the Indian girl’s parasitic twin probably did not end the twin’s life, as the rest of its body was inextricably intertwined with that of the living girl. Deliberately cutting one conscious conjoined twin loose if there is only one heart would seem to constitute murder. If one is unconscious or brain dead, and if survival of the other is impossible without separation surgery, it would seem to be permissible.
DavidV, if the soul is infused at the moment of conception, God would infuse two souls, one for each zygote. If you contend that the soul is not infused until some later time, such as implantation, then perhaps God could infuse only one. God can do as he or she wishes, after all!
The “if” is the key. It is not a fact that soul is infused at conception, since we have no way of knowing when it actually happens. In most cases this appears to be the most likely time.
Teilhard de Chardin was a panentheist. He mixed science and religion. I’ve done extensive research on him for the last six years. In The Human Phenomenon by Pierre Teilhard de Chardin edited by Sarah Appleton-Weber, Teilhard states he is a panentheist and admits to an intelligently designed universe. I know for a fact that his supporters are mostly comprised of people who support Intelligent Design. There is a flock of them, that is a fact Petrus! You need to do your own homework. FYI just because I do research on him doesn’t mean I’m a Teilhardian. Far from it! As I’ve stated before on this topic, science and religion aren’t compatiable nor do they interface.
I think he means that some people use Christian language when discussing evolution. Some is considered blasphemous, such as Matthew Fox’s thoughts on creation. Some is considered well within the proper parameters, such as Pope Benedict XVI’s thoughts. And then there are some who think that Pope Benedict XVI’ thoughts are no different than Matthew Fox’s thoughts.
I’m glad you pointed that out drpmjhess.
I’ve tried to address the nature of consciousness and the possibility of a “natural soul” vs. a “spiritual soul” before. I honestly don’t think anyone knew what I was talking about though.
I’m a she. 100% woman from the top of my head all the way done to my pink painted toe nails. Green eyed pix with long blonde hair
Please don’t compare Matthew Fox’s thoughts to Pope BenedictsXVI’s. The Pope doesn’t believe in a Cosmic Christ! Furthermore, Matthew Fox is no longer a Roman Catholic. Mr. Fox is absolutely considered a member of New Age fluff along with being a real admirer of many Intelligent Design advocates! YUCK. I’ve had to read his book to get a real handle on the Intelligent Design Movement. *The Coming of the Cosmic Christ *by Matthew Fox is whacky! Have you read it? In his book, **Part IV: Who Is the Cosmic Christ? 21. Jesus Christ as Mother Earth Crucified and Resurrected. **Part V: A Vision of the Second Coming --The Healing of Mother Earth and the Birth of Global Renaissance **25. The Cosmic Christ and a Renaissance of Sexual Mysticism. ** These are only two chapters. Not only does Fox destroy science but he totally destroys Jesus and in my opinion Fox’s ideas are plain weird! And I really don’t give a hoot if he was director of the Institute in Culture and Creation Spirituality at Holy Names College in Oakland, California in 1940. (Isn’t it interesting that Phillip Johnson started the ID movement from Berkeley?) Fox went out the door with the hippies. 
So, I wouldn’t be following him. But those people who follow him usually tend to follow Teilhard de Chardin. Panentheists destroy science and wish to destroy a triune God. They wish to turn Jesus into a freak. Oh, that really makes me very mad I love Jesus:heart: and they had better leave him alone or they will have to fight me off . :knight2: (think of that as a joan of arc figure) Ed, that will be a hard one to insist on in a secular state such as we live in. I can’t imagine that that American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) or other professional groups will run their findings by the Vatican before announcing them.
Then you reject Church teaching on the subject.
Again, the Church disagrees.
I don’t really see a problem other than with our ability to understand what God does. I could easily argue that, in the cases you mentioned, God infused both conceptions with souls and when they joined together, one died. I really, really don’t see a reason here to reject the teachings of the Church.
No one is worshiping science, Ed.
Of course you are, Ed. That is what happens when you make all scientists go to the Vatican for approval.
That’s a crock and you don’t have the authority to make such a declaration.
Thanks. I get the impression from most pro-life literature that the soul is infused at conception, and that in fact, pro-life professionals reject as dangerous the suggestion that ensoulment has to do with implantation. So if it is not at the moment of conception, then God might infuse only one soul into a tetragametic chimera, which makes more sense than that God infuses one soul per zygote.
Except that neither one dies. Both zygotes develop together and thrive throughout the life of the one “person,” as evidenced by the fact that tetragametic chimeras are histocompatible with both zygotic genomes. I don’t imagine you are arguing that one soul can die or disappear when the body into which it was infused is still alive.
I’m sure you know that as the head of the Body of Christ, the Church passes judgement on scientific findings all the time. It is within its purview to make certain that whatever science develops to examine it, align it with Church teaching and then instruct the faithful as to why to accept or reject a new invention (The Pill) or process like Embryonic Stem Cell research.
Oh, OK Ed, I understand. I thought you were calling for science to toe the Vatican line. So we can expect continued progress in evolutionary biology, even if the Church rejects it.