George Zimmerman makes initial court appearance in Trayvon Martin shooting, will plead not guilty

[St_Francis]

It doesn’t make ‘complete sense’ to me. It’s just COLD, stone COLD.

Your statement contradicts itself: if identification must be done quickly and the victim has no visible ID, it stands to reason that they should go knock on doors.

Altho it was continually called a gated community, it seems that it was not like a gated community with fences around it and a person at the gate making sure that everyone who entered was ok to be in there. It seems to have actually been just a community with only a couple of entrances out, more like an apartment complex.

And so you have an unidentified person, of unknown age but obviously young.Could be 16, could be 18. You don’t know if he is from the community he is in, or if he is from somewhere else, and plus, you have a muder investigation to run, and the rest of the town to protect.

It is not cold, it is simply the wisest use of limited resources. Call your own police department and see what they would do under those circumstances.

 

[St_Francis]

He did live nearby and there were people at his address who could ID him.

He didn’t live nearby, he was visiting with his father, and apparently his father and fiancee were out. Would have had his little brother identify him?

 

[St_Francis]

That was not at all the context of the comment about money. The poster I was responding to; don’t remember who now - specifically lamented the cost to people who defend themselves and then are sued over the death or injury so caused. My stance was that that does not justify allowing them to kill without consequences, as life is greater than money. Self defense can be allowed, and financial security protected, without Stand Your Ground laws as they are currently framed.

Yes, it was my comment.

Do you know how much lawyers cost? So someone attacks you, and you end up having to pay lawyers to defend you in a criminal suit, and then lawyers to defend you in a civil suit. That can destroy the average person financially. Not everyone has several tens of thousands of dollars to spend on something that wasn’t even their fault!

 

[seekerz]

Altho it was continually called a gated community, it seems that it was not like a gated community with fences around it and a person at the gate making sure that everyone who entered was ok to be in there. It seems to have actually been just a community with only a couple of entrances out, more like an apartment complex.

And so you have an unidentified person, of unknown age but obviously young.Could be 16, could be 18. You don’t know if he is from the community he is in, or if he is from somewhere else, and plus, you have a muder investigation to run, and the rest of the town to protect.

It is not cold, it is simply the wisest use of limited resources. Call your own police department and see what they would do under those circumstances.

I’m pretty sure, even without calling, that they would be out there knocking on doors, particularly if, like the Sanford police, they were not really investigating a murder, but an incident of supposed self-defense. He was in the area (very close to home, I’ve been told), whatever the lack of fences/gates; the logical conclusion would have been to ask around UNLESS they simply assumed, like Zimmerman, that he was a stranger/intruder.

 

[seekerz]

Yes, it was my comment.

Do you know how much lawyers cost? So someone attacks you, and you end up having to pay lawyers to defend you in a criminal suit, and then lawyers to defend you in a civil suit. That can destroy the average person financially. Not everyone has several tens of thousands of dollars to spend on something that wasn’t even their fault!

Dunno about bank accounts, but I’m pretty sure, NO ONE has a spare life tucked away to replace one lost because of someone else’s assumptions.

 

[L_piperatus]

You also said this:

“Somebody needs to teach teenagers that IF they walk up to someone and punch someone in the nose, there will be consequences. Somebody needs to tell teenagers that if they physically hit people, people might fight back and even shoot back in self-defense and might even KILL those teenagers who hit them. If you are a teenager and you don’t want to die, you better don’t hit people and don’t punch them in the nose. Because if you swing your fist on someone, you might end up in the morgue, with a bullet in your torso.”

I suggest that if you don’t want to be misunderstood, you shouldn’t mix fact with imaginary scenarios in the same post. If no teen hit anyone, whither all these lessons? Who are they for?

Nancy Grace said on TV that if Trayvon truly punched GZ in the nose, and truly decked him, he was still right because GZ followed him. Pnewton said here on this thread that if Trayvon punched first, it was still GZ who started the altercation.

I disagree with the above perspectives, and I think they are going to lead to more people getting killed. Because people will not put up with someone swinging their fists at them and punching them when they didn’t punch first.

So, I stand by what I said. This tragedy is a good occasion to clarify: if GZ’s version is true, if it was truly Trayvon who walked up to him and punched him in the nose, then Trayvon really brought this tragedy on himself. And we need to say that out loud, lest some teenagers misunderstand the situation and think that it’s OK to start physical fights, and end up dead just like Trayvon did.

I also believe I am on the side of protecting teenagers from doing stupid things and getting killed, when I say this.

 

[seekerz]

He didn’t live nearby, he was visiting with his father, and apparently his father and fiancee were out. Would have had his little brother identify him?

Okay, he didn’t live there permanently - he was a guest. What difference does it make? His little brother certainly looks old enough to give a telephone number to the police.

 

[SwizzleStick]

My wife is 5’2", so my kids tend to tower over her at a young age. …

I am of average height, 5’5", but I have tall sons, thanks to hubby. My daughter is just a little taller, but the boys will likely be much, much taller than I am when they stop growing. At 14, my son still has years to grow and so does my other boy.

…Even if they did identify a child, they wouldn’t start knocking on every door to find their parents. They would process the crime scene, including knocking on doors for witnesses and people who may know who the victim is, but that is different. If the child lived near by and/or witnesses could ID him, I’m sure they would have done it that night.

Agreed. I’m sure they would have notified someone right away if they could, but they couldn’t. Martin died violently, so I would think the first priority of the police would be police business.

It is sad to consider that maybe Martin’s Dad saw and maybe heard some of the nearby commotion with police, ambulance, coroner, etc. arrival and activity and didn’t know about his son.

 

[seekerz]

Nancy Grace said on TV that if Trayvon truly punched GZ in the nose, and truly decked him, he was still right because GZ followed him. Pnewton said here on this thread that if Trayvon punched first, it was still GZ who started the altercation.

I disagree with the above perspectives, and I think they are going to lead to more people getting killed. Because people will not put up with someone swinging their fists at them and punching them when they didn’t punch first.

So, I stand by what I said. This tragedy is a good occasion to clarify: if GZ’s version is true, if it was truly Trayvon who walked up to him and punched him in the nose, then Trayvon really brought this tragedy on himself. And we need to say that out loud, lest some teenagers misunderstand the situation and think that it’s OK to start physical fights, and end up dead just like Trayvon did.

I also believe I am on the side of protecting teenagers from doing stupid things and getting killed, when I say this.

I can’t speak for Nancy Grace. I do believe Trayvon had a right to strike GZ if the man had threatened him; I don’t know who threatened who. What lesson is in here for teens? Demand their rights to Stand Their Ground too. That’s ‘eye for an eye’ message in the whole way this incident unfolded and was responded to. Only the states in which those laws reign can determine if that’s the message they want to be sending to 17 yr olds.

 

[rlg94086]

Your statement contradicts itself: if identification must be done quickly and the victim has no visible ID, it stands to reason that they should go knock on doors that very night.

They knock on doors close to the scene, but they don’t go around knocking on doors throughtout the community. Certainly, they would notify the parents if the occupants of the homes close to the incident could identify the victim.

There is no contradiction in my statement. The police often have to deal with a John Doe the night of an incident and then work to identify the body in the following days.

 

[rlg94086]

He did live nearby and there were people at his address who could ID him.

Sure…at his address. And, how far away was his address from the scene? How would they know his address?

 

[seekerz]

They knock on doors close to the scene, but they don’t go around knocking on doors throughtout the community. Certainly, they would notify the parents if the occupants of the homes close to the incident could identify the victim.

There is no contradiction in my statement. The police often have to deal with a John Doe the night of an incident and then work to identify the body in the following days.

They knock on doors close to the scene? Trayvon’s temporary home was reportedly close to the scene. What’s the problem?

 

[rlg94086]

It is sad to consider that maybe Martin’s Dad saw and maybe heard some of the nearby commotion with police, ambulance, coroner, etc. arrival and activity and didn’t know about his son.

I doubt he saw and heard it. As a father, I would call the police sooner than the next day if he were missing and I heard a nearby commotion with police, ambulance, coroner, etc.

 

[seekerz]

Sure…at his address. And, how far away was his address from the scene? How would they know his address?

By knocking on doors. From all reports, he was almost home.

 

[rlg94086]

They knock on doors close to the scene? Trayvon’s temporary home was reportedly close to the scene. What’s the problem?

Obviously, it wasn’t close enough. How close was it? The police wouldn’t know. How many homes are in the gated community? How many doors would you expect to knock on?

 

[seekerz]

I doubt he saw and heard it. As a father, I would call the police sooner than the next day if he were missing and I heard a nearby commotion with police, ambulance, coroner, etc.

Yeah? As a police officer I would not rest until I could find the dead child’s parents.

 

[rlg94086]

By knocking on doors. From all reports, he was almost home.

Okay. So, it must have happened close, right? How close. Please provide distance and the details I asked about in my previous post. Then, you might have a valid point.

 

[rlg94086]

Yeah? As a police officer I would not rest until I could find the dead child’s parents.

Indeed. But, the deceased’s father called in the next morning. There was no need for the police to do a door-to-door search, at that point.

 

[catharina]

So we are to sacrifice someone at the altar of alleged racism?

No.

There is be a complete and thorough
investigation - exactly like what is happening now.
Can you see the distinction - at all?

 

[seekerz]

Okay. So, it must have happened close, right? How close. Please provide distance and the details I asked about in my previous post. Then, you might have a valid point.

My point is valid regardless. If he was within walking distance of home, which is obvious from all accounts (after all he walked to the store and he was almost home) they could have identified him without overtly inconveniencing themselves.