George Zimmerman makes initial court appearance in Trayvon Martin shooting, will plead not guilty

[Calgar]

My question: who is the SHE you have accused of projecting?

Really simple qustion.

ANSWER: ???

You said in an earlier post that people who carry guns are probably looking for trouble. You have no way of actually knowing that. So I believe you are projecting.

Here’s the article for your consideration, again.

vcdl.org/new/raging.htm

 

[jen_fla]

On the contrary.
See Post # 422.

Plenty of unstable folks can get licenses to cary loaded weapons.
It’s likely that the screening processes in various States are less than stringent.

so you don’t think that most people who carry guns legally are out looking for trouble? that is good to hear!

interesting to note…

from the article that calgar provided:

People who legally carry concealed firearms are actually less violent and less prone to criminal activity of all kinds than is the general population.20 A person who has a clean record, has passed an FBI background check, undergone firearms training, and spent several hundred dollars to get a permit and a firearm, is highly unlikely to choose to murder a neighbor. Doing so would result in his facing a police manhunt, a trial, prison, possibly capital punishment, and the destruction of his family, job, and reputation. Obviously it would make no sense for such a person to shoot a neighbor - except in self-defense. Equally obviously, the anti-gun person who believes that malicious shootings by ordinary gun owners are likely to occur is not in touch with reality.21

vcdl.org/new/raging.htm

anyway perhaps another thread regarding these issues would be in order.

 

[St_Francis]

Totally - although you did not repeat the problem you question -
**if Zimmerman had no gun on him, self-preservation would have **
**kept him far away from that SUSPICIOUS stranger. **

Simple common sense tells the story.
Why track down a suspicious stranger
without means of deadly force to protect
you? Who would do that?

1. maybe the mentally ill
2. maybe someone with a death wish
3. maybe someone who imagines himself a hero.

I’ve had tons of experience with all three groups.

The three groups (and there are many more) share: a shortage of common sense.

As I pointed out in the previous thread, I once saw two men put a screaming struggling 4yo girl into a car and drive off. At that time, there was a lot of publicity about child abuse, and no one had a cell phone.

I ran after the car (in city traffic) and luckily found a police officer in a car and told her about it so she could take over the chase.

I did not follow those men because of any of the reasons you listed. I also was *not *armed. I followed them solely so that I would have a direction to which I could point the police.

I don’t think I am mentally ill, have a death wish, or imagine myself a hero. I was just trying to help as well as I could, because one thing I know: the police can do nothing without the help of regular citizens. At that time, it was the very beginning of the murder rate’s increase to the point that DC would become the Murder Capital of the world, and this was DC. The police had continual problems with gathering evidence because no one would say anything. 20 people would see a murder, not a single one would admit to having seen anything.

Zimmerman had before this comforted a woman whose house had been entered when she and her baby were in it, offering help and telling the victim that if she felt scared, she could visit with his wife at their place.

It’s not like this was an event where there is no past, no history. There is context.

 

[Calgar]

In this day of raging mental illnesses, drug abuse, biases
and random violence, yeah I hope that the goverment will do effective screening.

I do not trust the government that much. And I work for it.

Also, are you saying that mental illness, drug abuse, bias, and random violence are a new thing? I find that funny.

 

[catharina]

So criminal and violent are synonyms now?

They could be synonyms for Zimmerman.
He has a track record of personal violence.
In many instances, the worst crimes include VIOLENCE.

Z wasn’t charged. He was fired. Yippee.

 

[jen_fla]

You said in an earlier post that people who carry guns are probably looking for trouble. You have no way of actually knowing that. So I believe you are projecting.

Here’s the article for your consideration, again.

vcdl.org/new/raging.htm

i pretty much just posted the same thing. sorry, didn’t see your post. that was a very interesting read by the way. i hope many posters and lurkers on caf will read it from beginning to end.

 

[St_Francis]

No kidding.
Charges are not the same as convictions.

Convictions - who knows?
Tons of misinformation out there.

It’s public knowledge that he lost a job due to his violence.
Might have been a game of balances: lose the job or go to court.
There were so MANY witnesses to that violence, how could Z agree to court?
Now, in this case: VOILA! dark, rainy night, teen alone, No witnesses. Perfect.

The only report I read of this was that an anonymous source told news reporters that some people complained at a security job Zimmerman was said to have held and he lost his job at an unnamed company. I have not seen anything to substantiate what you are saying any further than that.

Perhaps you could direct us to the source of this information?

 

[St_Francis]

The affidavit clearly states
that Zimmerman perceived Martin to be “CRIMINAL.”

Read the affidavit and do the math.

Which affidavit? All I have seen is that Zimmerman thought Martin was acting suspiciously.

If Zimmerman thought that Martin was acting like a person interested in breaking into a house in the neighborhood, then he might not have seen him as a lethal threat, esp since it seems to have been pretty easy to run and hide in that area, since people were “always getting away.”

 

[catharina]

You said in an earlier post that people who carry guns are probably looking for trouble. You have no way of actually knowing that. So I believe you are projecting.

Here’s the article for your consideration, again.

vcdl.org/new/raging.htm

Then from the Forum Rules, I’ll remind you:

**If you have something to say to an individual member that is not of general interest to the board, use the private messaging system. **

Do you imagine that your accusation against me is of general interest?
Do you imagine that your accusation against me is even VALID?

You might want to be much more careful about the you word things.

 

[catharina]

so you don’t think that most people who carry guns legally are out looking for trouble? that is good to hear!

interesting to note…

from the article that calgar provided:

People who legally carry concealed firearms are actually less violent and less prone to criminal activity of all kinds than is the general population.20 A person who has a clean record, has passed an FBI background check, undergone firearms training, and spent several hundred dollars to get a permit and a firearm, is highly unlikely to choose to murder a neighbor. Doing so would result in his facing a police manhunt, a trial, prison, possibly capital punishment, and the destruction of his family, job, and reputation. Obviously it would make no sense for such a person to shoot a neighbor - except in self-defense. Equally obviously, the anti-gun person who believes that malicious shootings by ordinary gun owners are likely to occur is not in touch with reality.21

vcdl.org/new/raging.htm

anyway perhaps another thread regarding these issues would be in order.

Agreed. Such discussion does not belong here, in the light of this tragedy.
PS - most people who carry guns legally are likely police and military.

 

[mtbender]

They could be synonyms for Zimmerman.
He has a track record of personal violence.
In many instances, the worst crimes include VIOLENCE.

Z wasn’t charged. He was fired. Yippee.

More opinion with any facts to validate.

The fact that he was not charged is a very important piece of information. There are degrees of violence and none that Zimmerman exhibited where illegal – yet people have no problem making that leap to murder.

Martin was in possession of drug paraphernalia, under that logic is it safe to say he was going to be a drug dealer?

 

[catharina]

As I pointed out in the previous thread, I once saw two men put a screaming struggling 4yo girl into a car and drive off. At that time, there was a lot of publicity about child abuse, and no one had a cell phone.

I ran after the car (in city traffic) and luckily found a police officer in a car and told her about it so she could take over the chase.

I did not follow those men because of any of the reasons you listed. I also was *not *armed. I followed them solely so that I would have a direction to which I could point the police.

I don’t think I am mentally ill, have a death wish, or imagine myself a hero. I was just trying to help as well as I could, because one thing I know: the police can do nothing without the help of regular citizens. At that time, it was the very beginning of the murder rate’s increase to the point that DC would become the Murder Capital of the world, and this was DC. The police had continual problems with gathering evidence because no one would say anything. 20 people would see a murder, not a single one would admit to having seen anything.

Zimmerman had before this comforted a woman whose house had been entered when she and her baby were in it, offering help and telling the victim that if she felt scared, she could visit with his wife at their place.

It’s not like this was an event where there is no past, no history. There is context.

Context rests in Z’s perception of a stranger as a criminal.
Every large city in the nation has dealt with “lack of willing witnesses” for decades.

 

[St_Francis]

WRT 2005 dropped charges, here is Zimmerman’s statement about that incident.

I cannot copy and paste, but he wrote that an undercover sting occurred, that the police officer who was in plain clothes did not identify himself as a police officer, and that the police officer assaulted Zimmerman first.

 

[catharina]

I do not trust the government that much. And I work for it.

Also, are you saying that mental illness, drug abuse, bias, and random violence are a new thing? I find that funny.

Funny? You work for the gov’t and you missed the point.

Treatment FUNDS for such groups have been demolished.
Of course there is more problem-behavior in the public sector

 

[SwizzleStick]

Odd. Seems to me it would be better to use accurate descriptions, but that it just my opinion.
seekerz;9180349:

What is inaccurate in calling the Zimmerman white? What makes Hispanic more correct? If race was about description/physical features, then most official forms would be yards long.

I see your point and it is a good one. Zimmerman is just as much White as he is Hispanic (or Peruvian, apparently,) and he may have other ethnicities thrown in the mix too since I would think most of us have mixed ethnic backgrounds.

However, as far as accuracy in descriptions, from a practical standpoint, I think it would be more effective to describe someone by physical appearance. When I think of a White person, I think of a Caucasian, not someone who looks Hispanic. If a suspect in a crime is described as White, I’d be looking for a Caucasian person, not someone who looks Hispanic.

 

[Calgar]

Then from the Forum Rules, I’ll remind you:

**If you have something to say to an individual member that is not of general interest to the board, use the private messaging system. **

Do you imagine that your accusation against me is of general interest?
Do you imagine that your accusation against me is even VALID?

You might want to be much more careful about the you word things.

You aren’t going to intimidate me into not presenting evidence against your supositions. If you think I’m out of line, report me and have me gone.

As to the point at hand:

I think it’s very interesting to other members of the board. They posted quite a bit around this issue of people (not just you) saying that carrying a gun (as George Zimmerman did) is some kind of evidence of intent.

Whether anyone likes it, or not, GZ was legally carrying a pistol and he used it. Now wether his USE of the pistol was legal will be for the court to decide. But the fact that he had a pistol is not evidence against him.

 

[catharina]

Which affidavit? All I have seen is that Zimmerman thought Martin was acting suspiciously.

If Zimmerman thought that Martin was acting like a person interested in breaking into a house in the neighborhood, then he might not have seen him as a lethal threat, esp since it seems to have been pretty easy to run and hide in that area, since people were “always getting away.”

The affidavit and links to it have been posted here.
It’s quite easy to find it. Take a look.

 

[jen_fla]

Agreed. Such discussion does not belong here, in the light of this tragedy.
PS - most people who carry guns legally are likely police and military.

i don’t know how you came to that conclusion. maybe you want to look over the attached file.

 

[mary_bobo]

You aren’t going to intimidate me into not presenting evidence against your supositions. If you think I’m out of line, report me and have me gone.

As to the point at hand:

I think it’s very interesting to other members of the board. They posted quite a bit around this issue of people (not just you) saying that carrying a gun (as George Zimmerman did) is some kind of evidence of intent.

Whether anyone likes it, or not, GZ was legally carrying a pistol and he used it. Now wether his USE of the pistol was legal will be for the court to decide. But the fact that he had a pistol is not evidence against him.

I agree.

 

[Calgar]

Martin was in possession of drug paraphernalia, under that logic is it safe to say he was going to be a drug dealer?

Some are trying to make that case.

wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/was-trayvon-martin-a-drug-dealer

I don’t think it’s really necessary for the trial. If TM initiated a conflict and GZ believed he was in danger, then it doesn’t matter if TM was a ballerina.