Georgia Pope: Tbilisi stadium largely empty for papal Mass

  • Thread starter Thread starter Seamus_L
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

Seamus_L

Guest
Pope Francis has said Mass in a largely empty stadium on a visit to Georgia after the majority Orthodox Christian Church asked followers to stay away.
Orthodox believers were asked not to take part in Roman Catholic services and a Church delegation due to attend also stayed away. bbc.com/news/world-europe-37530407
 
Yes, on some of the anti-Catholic signs. No, on there not attending the mass. Only 1 pct of Georgia is Catholic, so perhaps a mass at a smaller venue would have been a better idea.
 
There is some anger there, without doubt. We occasionally see that here at CAF. Yet, the Orthodox themselves are not even united. Worries of terrorist activity may play in. However, to a greater or lesser degree, it is a reflection of the Church in Europe or America.
 
I can respect the Church’s decision not to allow the faithful to attend a Catholic Mass. That’s a matter of discipline and we’ve had similar restrictions in times past. That being said, the protestors, priests among them, with signs saying “arch-heretic you are not welcome in Orthodox Georgia”? That is absolutely contrary to the most basic tenants of Christian charity. There is nothing Christ like in their actions (though many of our Orthodox brethren may disagree). It smacks of hatred and bitterness.
 
twf said:
I can respect the Church’s decision not to allow the faithful to attend a Catholic Mass. That’s a matter of discipline and we’ve had similar restrictions in times past. That being said, the protestors, priests among them, with signs saying “arch-heretic you are not welcome in Orthodox Georgia”? That is absolutely contrary to the most basic tenants of Christian charity. There is nothing Christ like in their actions (though many of our Orthodox brethren may disagree). It smacks of hatred and bitterness.
Click to expand...
👍

The Putin Effect? 😉
 
Putin isn’t very popular in Georgia, and even though Patriarch Kirill has voiced very different opinions from Pope Francis, relations between the two remain very cordial. Don’t think this had anything to do with Russia.
 
pravoslavie.ru/english/97534.htm

The orthodox do not want to give the appearance of supporting ecumenism, which the Orthodox Church does not accept. Papal Supremacy is a part of the “deposit of the faith” according to the RC. Hence, we do not share the same faith. This is not rudeness.
 
Jon_Mallory said:
pravoslavie.ru/english/97534.htm

The orthodox do not want to give the appearance of supporting ecumenism, which the Orthodox Church does not accept. Papal Supremacy is a part of the “deposit of the faith” according to the RC. Hence, we do not share the same faith. This is not rudeness.
Click to expand...
Not all Orthodox share your view. I discussed this incident with my Orthodox cousin and he was saddened by the disgusting, hateful, unchristian behaviour of these Georgians. As I said earlier, I can certainly respect the decision not to participate in a Catholic Mass, but the protests against the pope’s presence in the country were vile. You would be OK if the EP landed in a predominantly Catholic country with the intention of visiting the local Orthodox community and he was greeted with protestors with signs that denounced him as a heretic and announced he was not welcome in this “Catholic country”? Of course that would never happen as it has been the official policy of the Catholic Church to respect the Orthodox Church and not attempt to proselytize her members for decades.

Going back to the issue of attending Catholic Masses- while I don’t take issue with the Georgians here, it is definitely an issue over which the Orthodox are divided. The EP prays with the Pope.
 
twf said:
Not all Orthodox share your view. I discussed this incident with my Orthodox cousin and he was saddened by the disgusting, hateful, unchristian behaviour of these Georgians. As I said earlier, I can certainly respect the decision not to participate in a Catholic Mass, but the protests against the pope’s presence in the country were vile. You would be OK if the EP landed in a predominantly Catholic country with the intention of visiting the local Orthodox community and he was greeted with protestors with signs that denounced him as a heretic and announced he was not welcome in this “Catholic country”? Of course that would never happen as it has been the official policy of the Catholic Church to respect the Orthodox Church and not attempt to proselytize her members for decades.

Going back to the issue of attending Catholic Masses- while I don’t take issue with the Georgians here, it is definitely an issue over which the Orthodox are divided. The EP prays with the Pope.
Click to expand...
I never condoned the protesters. Waving around hate signs is innapropiate and sinful. I was defending the Georgian patriarch not attending. It’s all right for Orthodox bishops to attend Catholic services so long as they don’t serve in an official capacity. For example, it’s great that orthodox attend the March for life with Catholics. However, ecumenism should not be taken too far to the point where we confuse our differences for mere variations.
 
Jon_Mallory said:
I never condoned the protesters. Waving around hate signs is innapropiate and sinful. I was defending the Georgian patriarch not attending. It’s all right for Orthodox bishops to attend Catholic services so long as they don’t serve in an official capacity. For example, it’s great that orthodox attend the March for life with Catholics. However, ecumenism should not be taken too far to the point where we confuse our differences for mere variations.
Click to expand...
Ok - my apologies for assuming. I agree that real differences shouldn’t be ignored.
 
I don’t know if it was arrogance or obliviousness that caused the Pope to rent out a stadium when the Orthodox are not allowed to pray with heretics or schismatic. Something that Catholics according to conciliar canons aren’t allowed to do either.

The Pope should have known about the theological gulf that exists, the orthodox have not budged an inch since the medieval ages, something that I really don’t know if can be said about the Catholic church anymore.

The protesting signs were apt, they see us as heretics, and the Pope being a leader of the church is an arch heretic, similar to an arch priest and arch bishop.
If the Dalai Lhama or Pat Robertson came to Italy would you really expect any Catholic to participate in their religious practices?
 
Omaestre said:
I don’t know if it was arrogance or obliviousness that caused the Pope to rent out a stadium when the Orthodox are not allowed to pray with heretics or schismatic. Something that Catholics according to conciliar canons aren’t allowed to do either.

The Pope should have known about the theological gulf that exists, the orthodox have not budged an inch since the medieval ages, something that I really don’t know if can be said about the Catholic church anymore.

The protesting signs were apt, they see us as heretics, and the Pope being a leader of the church is an arch heretic, similar to an arch priest and arch bishop.
If the Dalai Lhama or Pat Robertson came to Italy would you really expect any Catholic to participate in their religious practices?
Click to expand...
As noted earlier in the thread, it is one thing not to attend the services and quite another to protest the pope’s very presence in the country. He has a flock there of his own (even if it’s small), is a visiting chief of state, and a fellow Christian. And no, I can’t imagine Catholics in Italy protesting the Dalai Lama’s mere presence. Perhaps you would be ok if a mob of Catholics surrounded the Orthodox cathedral in Rome shouting “leave Catholic Italy you heretics!”?
 
Interestingly, when the Dalai Lama visited Italy that year, he asked to meet with Pope Francis, but Pope Francis declined to meet with him to avoid upsetting the Chinese government. Not sure if the negotiations between the Vatican and China had started at that point but it probably had something to do with that. Not exactly the same situation as this, but the outcome was similarly unfortunate.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top