German Archbishop wants female deacons, and other changes

[YoungTradCath]

I think these dialogues that some bishops are having with the laity are not helping at all. And the ring leader is the central committee of catholics, a ‘liberal’ lay group that is funded by Catholic taxpayers via the Church tax/the bishops but doesn’t represent/speak for all Catholics in Germany. They meet from time to time with the bishops and keep pushing for these reforms. So they might somewhat be succeeding to influence some bishops as they keep on bringing up these same issues all the time.

But the head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is aware of all this and his stance is unequivocal.

So far, it’s all just rhetoric. The moment any bishop starts going against Church teaching, I am sure the Vatican will react.

I did say I was impressed by the reaction from most Catholics on Fb.

Why do the bishops give them their ears?

Indeed, the ZdK is very liberal. I gather they promote all sorts of peculiar viewpoints. I fully agree that this much-praised and demanded “dialogue” is not helping to preserve Truth at all, but only blurring it.

When I heard that Archbishop Müller had been put in charge of the CDF, I rejoiced, for he was called “conservative”. In media speak on Church matters, that word makes me think “conservative = good”.

Dialogue=let me complain and nag until you’re weary and give in.

 

[PaulinVA]

I don’t get this. Those who are barred from receiving Holy Communion are barred not because they are divorced, but because they are committing adultery – it’s just like any other serious sin which remains unrepented. If the person agrees to abstain from all sexual activity in the new marriage, and go to confession, then he or she can receive Holy Communion.

As Episcopalian Bishop Stacy Sauls said a few years ago, once you allow divorce and remarriage against the clear teaching of Jesus, it gets easier and easier as you go against other traditional teachings of the Church.

 

[CutlerB]

Why do the bishops give them their ears?

Because if they don’t people would probably say: “You are sooooo mean, you don’t care about the laity. You’re old-fashioned and don’t like change. You’re bigoted and don’t have any good arguments to support your old-fashioned thinking.” That’s my take on it.

Dialogue=let me complain and nag until you’re weary and give in.

Exactly. I am not opposed to the laity giving an opinion, when asked. But when they have this big platform and use it to promote liberalistic agendas, then it’s going too far.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Theologian dismisses call for women ‘deacons’

Theologian Father Manfred Hauke said recent comments from a German archbishop appearing to support a particular diaconate for women are confusing to Catholics and others.

“Allowing women to be deacons would create great confusion for the faithful,” Fr. Hauke, a professor of patristics and dogmatics at the Theological Faculty of Lugano, told CNA April 30.

“You would have to explain to them the difference between male and female deacons,” he pointed out.

Female “deacons” would not be ordained to the sacrament of Holy Orders, and that to call them deacons would be “ambiguous,” Fr. Hauke said. Women could “receive a benediction for services of charity” but not ordination, he clarified.

At the conclusion of a diocesan conference on possible Church reforms last week, Archbishop Robert Zollitsch of Freiburg im Breisgau discussed the possibility of “a specific office of deacon for women.”

This “specific,” or “particular” office of deacon for women was an example of how the Church might “promote the use of new Church ministries and positions, open also to women.”

Archbishop Zollitsch went on to speak of the importance of leadership roles for women, and had earlier talked of the importance of being a more strongly charismatic-oriented Church and the strengthening of the “common priesthood of all the baptized.”

---

 

[Transalosania]

Why change now what has been for thousands of years?

 

[kelvinf]

Indeed, the ZdK is very liberal. I gather they promote all sorts of peculiar viewpoints. I fully agree that this much-praised and demanded “dialogue” is not helping to preserve Truth at all, but only blurring it.

When I heard that Archbishop Müller had been put in charge of the CDF, I rejoiced, for he was called “conservative”. In media speak on Church matters, that word makes me think “conservative = good”.

When some German politicans like the Justice Minister hear his name, they freak out.

With Archbishop Müller at the Vatican, all these proposed reforms are doomed.

 

[CutlerB]

When some German politicans like the Justice Minister hear his name, they freak out.

With Archbishop Müller at the Vatican, all these proposed reforms are doomed.

Oh most definitely. Mrs Leutheusser-Schnarrenberger has a lot of freaking out coming at her. I hope Pope Francis leaves Müller in charge. I gather he has not permanently confirmed them in their positions, but rather only until further notice.

 

[kelvinf]

Why do the bishops give them their ears?

Because if they don’t people would probably say: “You are sooooo mean, you don’t care about the laity. You’re old-fashioned and don’t like change. You’re bigoted and don’t have any good arguments to support your old-fashioned thinking.” That’s my take on it.

Because of Vatican II? This central committee of German Catholics is made up of ‘parish council’, ‘parish pastoral council’ or ‘pastoral council’ representatives, representatives from Catholic institutions/organisations, and some individuals within the Church (and politicians). I am not quite familiar with all this but it seems like there was some initial Vatican II decree that established these councils but it later became only a recommendation in the revised Code of Canon Law.

Long story short. If you understand the Vatican II decree/recommendation (and the confusion) regarding these councils you should understand what I am talking about.

So I would say, the ‘parish council’ or ’ parish pastoral council’ or the ‘pastoral council’ is to the local level as this ‘central committee’ is to the ‘federal’ level. Their main task is to «assist in the Church’s “apostolate” or mission.»

 

[CutlerB]

Because of Vatican II? This central committee of German Catholics is made up of ‘parish council’, ‘parish pastoral council’ or ‘pastoral council’ representatives, representatives from Catholic institutions/organisations, and some individuals within the Church (and politicians). I am not quite familiar with all this but it seems like there was some initial Vatican II decree that established these councils but it later became only a recommendation in the revised Code of Canon Law.

Long story short. If you understand the Vatican II decree/recommendation (and the confusion) regarding these councils you should understand what I am talking about.

So I would say, the ‘parish council’ or ’ parish pastoral council’ or the ‘pastoral council’ is to the local level as this ‘central committee’ is to the ‘federal’ level. Their main task is to «assist in the Church’s “apostolate” or mission."»

I believe the ZdK is older than Vatican II, somewhere around the turn of the century, I think. Please do not let this degenerate into a Vatican II debate.

By the way, I love the quote in your signature. My thinking exactly!

 

[Tigg]

As Episcopalian Bishop Stacy Sauls said a few years ago, once you allow divorce and remarriage against the clear teaching of Jesus, it gets easier and easier as you go against other traditional teachings of the Church.

Episcopal or not, this is fact and the very nature of heresy as all truth is interconnected. Once a portion is rejected, doubt breaks the continuity of belief.

 

[kelvinf]

Oh most definitely. Mrs Leutheusser-Schnarrenberger has a lot of freaking out coming at her. I hope Pope Francis leaves Müller in charge. I gather he has not permanently confirmed them in their positions, but rather only until further notice.

But Pope Benedict already made the appointments. Does Pope Francis still has to confirm all appointments made by the Pope Emeritus? Certainly he can make new appointments when need be.

I believe the ZdK is older than Vatican II, somewhere around the turn of the century, I think. Please do not let this degenerate into a Vatican II debate.

Good. Oops, Vat II debate certainly not my intention. :tsktsk:

By the way, I love the quote in your signature. My thinking exactly!

Danke! I like it too.

 

[PaulinVA]

Episcopal or not, this is fact and the very nature of heresy as all truth is interconnected. Once a portion is rejected, doubt breaks the continuity of belief.

Once you start bending your Truth to be “fair” or “nondiscriminatory”, everything is in question, and nothing can withstand the onslaught of tyranny of the people who want to overthrow the Church.

 

[CutlerB]

But Pope Benedict already made the appointments. Does Pope Francis still has to confirm all appointments made by the Pope Emeritus? Certainly he can make new appointments when need be.

Well, he’s the Pope… of course he can do that.

Once you start bending your Truth to be “fair” or “nondiscriminatory”, everything is in question, and nothing can withstand the onslaught of tyranny of the people who want to overthrow the Church.

Precisely!

 

[kelvinf]

Some comments from one of Germany’s top Cardinals – Joachaim Cardinal Meisner!

In an interview as recent as today, he said the following: (I am paraphasing what I have picked. Original article in German here.)

• He said that while Catholics and others in France are fighting against same-sex marriage, folks in Germany are there discussing about female priests and similar topics that had long been decided by the Church. And thus shying away from social debates.
• He added that such matters (female priests, celibacy…) are not the business of the pastoral council, but rather, the Bishops, to whom Christ gave the power to teach. That the laity should focus on their worldly duties.
• He blamed the media for too much negativity towards the Church. Something he believes has been influencing some Catholics who buy everything the media say.
• He conveyed that Catholics who don’t accept Church teachings are no more Catholics, but rather, protestants.
• Finally, he defended the Church’s position to fire employees (like a divorced and remarried person) who do not adhere to the rules and regulations put forward by the Church.

++

 

[_Abyssinia]

Church spokesman: Catholics not divided by remarks over women deacons

A German church spokesman denied the country’s Catholic bishops are divided after the bishops’ conference president, Archbishop Robert Zollitsch, provoked controversy by advocating a form of diaconate for women.

“There are no new facts – Archbishop Zollitsch has declared himself in favor of a specific deaconry for women, which means without ordination,” said Robert Eberle, spokesman for Germany’s southern Freiburg Archdiocese.

“The bishops want more women in positions of responsibility in the church on the basis of Catholic doctrine. So there’s no division over reform issues like this,” Eberle said in a May 8 statement to Catholic News Service.

 

[gus]

The Church has already become too feminine.

This move will lead to its destruction.
It has to appeal to young men.
Young men who are willing to die for their belirfs

Irononiclly a miltitant masculine church will be more appealing to women than were we. are.