German priest admits 280 counts of sexual abuse

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bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16543091

How can some priests still be doing this? This sort of thing makes all priests look bad. And it makes all Catholics look bad. It makes me angry.
I don’t think it makes Catholics look bad, at least for reasonable and intelligent people.

The whole thing is quite curious. On the one hand many atheist/secular intellectuals and psychologists/psychiatrists find themselves increasingly in acceptance of pedophilia and ephebophilia (by far more prominent in the Church), on the other hand the subject is still worthy of bashing the Church, because most people still have the old Judeo-Christian notion that sexual activities with children are inherently wrong. It’s like with Dawkins. He does not have issues against his own molestation.
 
It’s getting more accepted in the scientific community? I didn’t know that. Are they actually saying it’s not so bad, or are some scientists and psychologists getting caught, and they’re not making a big deal about it?
 
I don’t think it makes Catholics look bad, at least for reasonable and intelligent people.

The whole thing is quite curious. On the one hand many atheist/secular intellectuals and psychologists/psychiatrists find themselves increasingly in acceptance of pedophilia and ephebophilia (by far more prominent in the Church), on the other hand the subject is still worthy of bashing the Church, because most people still have the old Judeo-Christian notion that sexual activities with children are inherently wrong. It’s like with Dawkins. He does not have issues against his own molestation.
I learned a new word – ephebophilia. I guess if you separate the disorder by age group it makes the new term “better.”

I’m shocked at the amount of porn on ths priest’s computer and his faux justification that he thought they gave their consent. Was he out the day they explained what "consent means, what is celibacy and the class on porn? Really! 3 boys and 280 counts?

I don’t care what they call it now.
 
I don’t think it makes Catholics look bad, at least for reasonable and intelligent people.

The whole thing is quite curious. On the one hand many atheist/secular intellectuals and psychologists/psychiatrists find themselves increasingly in acceptance of pedophilia and ephebophilia (by far more prominent in the Church), on the other hand the subject is still worthy of bashing the Church, because most people still have the old Judeo-Christian notion that sexual activities with children are inherently wrong. It’s like with Dawkins. He does not have issues against his own molestation.
You find attitudes to pedophilia curious? Funny, I used to think your views a mite curious.
 
I learned a new word – ephebophilia. I guess if you separate the disorder by age group it makes the new term “better.”

I’m shocked at the amount of porn on ths priest’s computer and his faux justification that he thought they gave their consent. Was he out the day they explained what "consent means, what is celibacy and the class on porn? Really! 3 boys and 280 counts?

I don’t care what they call it now.
Leegal, which is worse? Homosexual abuse of a 9 year old boy, or a 17 year old teen?

Both are, of course, wrong. But you say they’re both the same? Or am I misunderstanding your point? 🙂
 
Leegal, which is worse? Homosexual abuse of a 9 year old boy, or a 17 year old teen?

Both are, of course, wrong. But you say they’re both the same? Or am I misunderstanding your point? 🙂
Both sexual acts are equally reprehensible IMO. The idea that the age of the victim makes the offense less severe, is appalling to me. For young children, I would simply add violation of innocence as an additional and *** separate***, moral offense. Two reprehensible offenses instead of one.
 
Leegal, which is worse? Homosexual abuse of a 9 year old boy, or a 17 year old teen?

Both are, of course, wrong. But you say they’re both the same? Or am I misunderstanding your point? 🙂
17 is the age of consent, generally. But, personally, I don’t know that at 17 every boy or girl can give a true consent – having the maturity to handle it and, as we know, there are parts of the brain that do not fully form until later – the part of the brain that speaks of consequences.

So, now pedophilia is under 15. And this new term, ephebophilia, is 15 -19. Do, I see a problem? Yes. Both are equally morally wrong, even if you give it a new term. Legally wrong for over 16 = no, unfortunately.

I think there are other considerations here such as the difference in age between the two parties. I’m not advocating for teen sex, but if two 16 year olds engage in sex – so let me be clear – I’m more understanding of two 16 year olds who engage than an adult man, or woman, who uses a position of authority over someone who cannot give consent. It’s that authority that makes it impossible for me to see the “right” in having sex with a 17 year old and “wrong” to have sex with a 9 year old. This holds true for two adults where, for example, a boss places an underling in a position to give in to sex in order to keep a job or get a promised promotion. It also happens to be against the law to use your authority to gain sex no matter the age of the two people involved.

Yes, I am saying they are both wrong. Some states have wisely taken into consideration the age of the other party. I would not prosecute two 16 year olds for having sex (though I do advise strongly against having sex at 16), but I would prosecute someone who was of such as disparate age and used a position of authority to influence a teen. And that includes older women who take advantage of teen boys with raging hormones, something that people seem to have less problems with.

I am disturbed to see that there’s a new word for this which breaks down the activity by age of the victim, while ignoring the age of the other party and whether there’s a disparity in age. A new word does not change that someone is being taken advantage of sexually.
 
However its officially classified it brings nothing but disgrace on the church. They need to toss him in the klink for life. Those poor kids.
 
Let us be angry at the devil for his attacks on Holy Mother Church, and let us pray for those who are weak and submit to the temptation, as well as those who are victimized.
 
However its officially classified it brings nothing but disgrace on the church. They need to toss him in the klink for life. Those poor kids.
This too. I’m disturbed that after all the Church has been through, this priest was so out of control long after all the bad press. I mean – where was he?

I wish I had a solution. This is not going to make me leave the Church, but many thousands of Catholics left the Church in Germany over the scandals. Then there’s the dispute in Ireland with the Vatican and claims of “cover-up.” Ireland (the Republic), traditionally Catholic, is on tenuous terms with the Vatican. They have not invited the Pope to the Eucharistic Congress. Now they are calling for removing “God” from the Irish Constitution – all a secular backlash to the scandals.
 
You know its like every time the church starts to move on from this nightmare it pops up somewhere else, when is it going to pass. Our kids need to be safe to worship and we all need to have a church we can be proud of. The Vatican must get serious in rooting out these corrupted priests once and for all.
 
I learned a new word – ephebophilia. I guess if you separate the disorder by age group it makes the new term “better.” .
That word wasn’t in my 10 year-old dictionary. So yes, it seems to be a technique to change the name to make it more palatable. It seems to include males and females, again camouflaging the real purpose. The word should be pederasty. That word is in the dictionary. That word has been around. That word means men having sex with adolescent boys.
 
bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16543091

How can some priests still be doing this? This sort of thing makes all priests look bad. And it makes all Catholics look bad. It makes me angry.
Things like this make me very sad as a Catholic. What I’m most worried about is that something like this had been allowed to go on for so long. Catholicism is already on a sharp decline in Europe, and this certainly does not help matters.
 
I can’t help but wonder if this priest’s faulty idea of “consent” has been influenced by the RCC’s notion that a child older than seven has reached the so-called “age of consent”.

I also can’t help but wonder where the guidance of the Holy Spirit is in cases such as these. In all likelihood the actions of this one priest is going to cause some people to abandon the Church or cause others to continue to stay away. All of this could have all been easily prevented by an intervention that either kept this man out of the priesthood or helped him correctly form his conscience in regards to these matters.
 
You find attitudes to pedophilia curious? Funny, I used to think your views a mite curious.
You don’t find it curious that the class of people who most bash Church sex scandals are the same who find less and less “wrong” with pedophilia?

You will find that most of the Church bashing occurs in the progressive media. The same people who more and more embrace moral relativism (to some degree) and are in love with science. Scientists are starting to justify pedophilia.

This strange paradox does not make you curious? Not one bit?
 
I learned a new word – ephebophilia. I guess if you separate the disorder by age group it makes the new term “better.”

I’m shocked at the amount of porn on ths priest’s computer and his faux justification that he thought they gave their consent. Was he out the day they explained what "consent means, what is celibacy and the class on porn? Really! 3 boys and 280 counts?

I don’t care what they call it now.
It’s not a new term. Pedophilia is sexual attraction to those 13 and younger. In fact attraction for >13 year olds i.e. people who have secondary sexual characteristics and can reproduce is common in history and was probably the norm for thousands of years. People lived into their 30s. They would marry in their early teens. It’s also not seen as a psychiatric disorder. It may be seen as a legal problem, but that depends on the age of consent. It’s also not sinful as far as I know. If a man of 30 was to marry and 14 y/o and then engage in relations with her, it would not be sin. I gather parental permission may be needed depending on secular law, but given that, it would not be sin.

But you’ve also missed my point. The point I wished to state was that pedophilia is quite rare in the church. Sexual relations between priests and 15 year old boys are not pedophilia. Pedophilia ends at 13. The media may however gloss over this difference and some people are happy to accommodate them in perpetuating the error and at the same time bashing the Church. The latter is also curiously very linked to gender with a predominance of male victims. The media of course does not harp about that at all. 😉 One can argue that pedophilies are also not sex selective, but ephebophiles are different.

The priest was in error, but so are we all. We’re all sinners. Let’s not look at the priests’ moral stature, let that be a matter for the bishop and his confessor. We’re Catholics after all and not puritanical Bible thumpers. You would not want your sins to be broadcast publicly and your own internal justifications presented to anonymous internet confessors, even on Catholic forums. 🙂
 
You don’t find it curious that the class of people who most bash Church sex scandals are the same who find less and less “wrong” with pedophilia?

You will find that most of the Church bashing occurs in the progressive media. The same people who more and more embrace moral relativism (to some degree) and are in love with science. Scientists are starting to justify pedophilia.

This strange paradox does not make you curious? Not one bit?
I hadn’t thought about Church bashing much actually. I’ve been to busy trying to understand how some priests could violate their vows in such an egregious manner and what is behind the apparent effort to separate the violation of big boys from little boys. Not really sure why that distinction should be important.
 
It’s not a new term. Pedophilia is sexual attraction to those 13 and younger. In fact attraction for >13 year olds i.e. people who have secondary sexual characteristics and can reproduce is common in history and was probably the norm for thousands of years. People lived into their 30s. They would marry in their early teens. It’s also not seen as a psychiatric disorder. It may be seen as a legal problem, but that depends on the age of consent. It’s also not sinful as far as I know. If a man of 30 was to marry and 14 y/o and then engage in relations with her, it would not be sin. I gather parental permission may be needed depending on secular law, but given that, it would not be sin.

But you’ve also missed my point. The point I wished to state was that pedophilia is quite rare in the church. Sexual relations between priests and 15 year old boys are not pedophilia. Pedophilia ends at 13. The media may however gloss over this difference and some people are happy to accommodate them in perpetuating the error and at the same time bashing the Church. The latter is also curiously very linked to gender with a predominance of male victims. The media of course does not harp about that at all. 😉 One can argue that pedophilies are also not sex selective, but ephebophiles are different.

The priest was in error, but so are we all. We’re all sinners. Let’s not look at the priests’ moral stature, let that be a matter for the bishop and his confessor. We’re Catholics after all and not puritanical Bible thumpers. You would not want your sins to be broadcast publicly and your own internal justifications presented to anonymous internet confessors, even on Catholic forums. 🙂
See, now that’s what I, as a parent, find utterly disgusting…You are intertwining what you define as ‘non-sinful’ sexual behavior with discussion of sexual crimes and immorality. Leave aside the age issue for a while - what does normal, licit sexual activity have to do with sexual assault, far less assault on the same sex?

Not sure what century you live in, but it’s been some time since 14 year olds were socially considered adults whether in terms of employment, education, entertainment, civic duties or marriageability. For all intents and purposes a teenager in our society is a child and as Christians, violating consent laws would be immoral regardless of whether we agree with their age limits or not. In addition, even with parental consent, such behavior would be generally considered deviant from social norms - one reason Muslim child marriages get a lot of flak on this forum (even though in many societies, their social mores are considerably less modern than ours).

Pedophilia is any sexual violation of a person legally considered a child, period. It may be sub-classified according to age, but it is still pedophilia and still immoral. Any attempt to make it seem less offensive than it is, is itself offensive. I have seen you post similar opinions before but have never seen you post any supporting statements to show that they are anything more than your personal views and THAT is what I find curious.

If a priest, charged with tending God’s flock, violates his vocation in such a horrendous manner, he deserves to have to be publicly disciplined, both by the justice system and by the Church, if only to act as a deterrent to others and protect children in the future. I don’t see any problem whatsoever with that.

Humility and acknowledgment are two necessary components of repentance and hopefully, those were behind this priest’s confession. If people, priests or not, don’t want public humiliation, they should familiarize themselves with laws/social norms and respect them. It really is as simple as that. Besides, having one’s sins broadcast on the internet are not worse than being paraded in shame through the streets before being cast in prison, which is how the early Church reportedly treated such priests.
 
I can’t help but wonder if this priest’s faulty idea of “consent” has been influenced by the RCC’s notion that a child older than seven has reached the so-called “age of consent”.

I also can’t help but wonder where the guidance of the Holy Spirit is in cases such as these. In all likelihood the actions of this one priest is going to cause some people to abandon the Church or cause others to continue to stay away. All of this could have all been easily prevented by an intervention that either kept this man out of the priesthood or helped him correctly form his conscience in regards to these matters.
Honestly, I don’t get the big deal being made over age of consent when we are talking about a Catholic who has no business indulging in sexual activity outside the bonds of the sacrament of marriage anyhow.
 
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