Germany's neo-Nazi underground

[Gift_from_God]

Nah it wasnt Socialism. The official name of the Nazi’s party was “The National Socialist German Worker’s Party.” The use of the word “National” was an attempt to appeal to the patriotic right. “Socialist” was used to appeal to the Democratic Socialists (who were of course later suppressed by Hitler’s government). “Worker’s Party” was an attempt to appeal to the worker’s unions. In the end, it was all propaganda and shouldnt be taken seriously.

Remember, East Germany called itself democratic and North Korea calls itself a Democratic Republic. A title doesn’t mean it’s true

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

“Actually, feudalism is more right wing.”

I know that was my point.

“Fascism is corporate national statism, so it is left wing.”

How does that make it left wing? Corporatism is a negation of workplace democracy-thats not debatable. so what in your description makes fascism left wing? Remember, big government does not equal left wing.

“NAZIism is national socialism, so it is left wing.”

Nah it wasnt Socialism. The official name of the Nazi’s party was “The National Socialist German Worker’s Party.” The use of the word “National” was an attempt to appeal to the patriotic right. “Socialist” was used to appeal to the Democratic Socialists (who were of course later suppressed by Hitler’s government). “Worker’s Party” was an attempt to appeal to the worker’s unions. In the end, it was all propaganda and shouldnt be taken seriously.

What were the practical differences between Hitler and Stalin’s governments?

 

[Kaninchen]

Nah it wasnt Socialism. The official name of the Nazi’s party was “The National Socialist German Worker’s Party.” The use of the word “National” was an attempt to appeal to the patriotic right. “Socialist” was used to appeal to the Democratic Socialists (who were of course later suppressed by Hitler’s government). “Worker’s Party” was an attempt to appeal to the worker’s unions. In the end, it was all propaganda and shouldnt be taken seriously.

In German it’s Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei - think Nationalsocialist rather than National Socialist and it might become rather revealing - it’s the Gleichschaltung thing, the ‘coordination’ of the Volk, the German People. Members who had vaguely socialist leanings were marginalized and then purged because Nationalsocialism was a cultural thing and had nothing to do with common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange.

 

[Phish_Phan]

What were the practical differences between Hitler and Stalin’s governments?

I dont feel comfortable with Stalin being used as an example of a left wing government. Hitler and Stalin were both totalitarian leaders.

Would you like me to outline the differences between Nazism and Marxism?

(sidenote: im not a Marxist)

 

[Phish_Phan]

Members who had vaguely socialist leanings were marginalized and then purged because Nationalsocialism was a cultural thing and had nothing to do with common ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange.

Couldnt have said it better myself!

 

[tbcrawford]

Fascism is a far-right wing ideology

Communism is left-wing, fascism is right-wing. Hitler hated the communists

 

[LemonAndLime]

Since the Nazis were a far left wing organization I am curious as to how a neo-Nazi group could be considered far right-wing?

They are far-right. Facism is a definative attribute of being far-right, not communism.

However, some people believe political left/right is more like a U shape than a - shape. They do meet together to become the same when they are extreme.

 

[Not_Sure_1]

National Socialism is leftist.
Socialism is a leftist ideology.

 

[MontChevalier]

Hidden, underground Nazis?
What a frightening thought!

I truly hope it doesn’t spread to Austria, as it’s one of my most favorite of countries. I know that the Anschluss had annexed the country to Nazi German control, but the people still maintained some essence of faith for the Catholic Church, yes? That would explain why Adolf Hitler didn’t go to the Vatican and wipe out the (in Lutheran terms) Antichristian Pope. Alas, I confess, I’m no World War II expert (yet).

But I know a few outlines of the war.

Austrians can’t still want to go back to the whole World War II thing, would they?
They still have much more to prove than just being Germany’s lapdog.

-MontChevalier

 

[edwest2]

This is no surprise. The SS, which began as Hitler’s personal protection troops, expanded into the field of general combat. After the war, their sons and daughters were told certain ideas about the greatness of the Reich. Why did Hitler join the fight against the Communists in Spain just prior to World War II? Bolshevism was the enemy.

I watched recently on TV, a young German declaring, “Germany for Germans.” Foreigners were not welcome. Here is one article that should illuminate the problem further.

spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,737471,00.html

The issue has been “pure blood” not to be mingled with non-Aryans. And Eugenics, which started in America and spread to Europe. The feeble-minded, and lesser racial and ethnic groups were to be wiped out, along with gypsies and homosexuals.

In contradiction to some ideas, German soldiers had the phrase Gott mit Uns (God with Us) on their belt buckles.

google.com/search?q=gott+mit+uns+belt+buckle&hl=en&prmd=imvnsfd&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=vhbgTp6VEKKDsgLj2MmjBQ&sqi=2&ved=0CEkQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=675

Germany was regarded as the most technologically advanced country in the world during and after the war. Scientists were given what they wanted. Hitler didn’t invent the world’s first cruise missile used in combat, or the world’s first liquid fueled ballistic missile used in combat, and the same for the world’s first operational jet fighter and jet bomber.

Just read what the Allies said (and did) about these men after the war.

Peace,
Ed

 

[bearer]

National Socialism is leftist.
Socialism is a leftist ideology.

Just because the term socialist was in the party’s name doesn’t make them socialist. You can call yourself anything you want, but your actions will give you away in the end.

 

[silicasandra]

You know, I’m beginning to think there was a reason my high school world history and geography teacher described the political spectrum as more of a circle than a straight line - once you got to the extremes at either end, they had a tendency to look very similar even if the philosophies that got them there were wildly different.

 

[ringil]

Since the Nazis were a far left wing organization I am curious as to how a neo-Nazi group could be considered far right-wing?

lol- fascism is “left wing”? Fascism is the Right sir- well a demonized version of the right- but it certainly isn’t of the Left.

I guess one could say Communism is “left wing” but not Nazism.

 

[ringil]

Fascism is a far-right wing ideology

Nazism is bad- Left wing is bad--------- Nazism is left wing.

Got it? OK let’s move on here. . . . . . . .

 

[Sonic]

I know a lot has already been said about right wing and left wing in this topic. I’m going to offer a source and information based on what I’ve read.

I’ve recommended this book on CAF before and I can’t recommend it enough:

A Conflict of Visions: Ideological Origins of Political Struggles by Thomas Sowell

There are two kinds of socialist visions: unconstrained and constrained. These two visions are also called “left wing” and “right wing” in the socialist paradigm. Unconstrained Socialism is known as left wing socialism, and Constrained Socialism is known as right wing socialism. This way of interpreting social politics is a feature of socialist thinking, which has entered into the vocabulary of American politics (and often used out of its original context).

Socialist vision includes the belief in a system for regulating society, and the belief that the citizen lives to serve that system for the benefit of society as a whole. A characteristic is that Constrained Socialism tends to be nationalistic and uses conservative collective wisdom (experience, tradition, history, custom) as the basis for it’s systemic process. Unconstrained Socialism tends to base it’s social vision on the idea that society should rely on the guidance of contemporary intellectual elites (like scientists, experts, and university professors).

Sowell uses William Godwin as an example of the Unconstrained Vision. He uses Adam Smith as an example of the Constrained vision.

Sowell mentions that Karl Marx attempted to create a synthesis of the two visions. Marxism is Centrist in the Socialist paradigm. It is nether right wing nor left wing socialism. But, it is still socialist.

The Nazi party was socialist, but it swung toward constrained socialism. That is why it is often said to be “right wing” by socialists. One might argue that Libertarianism also leans toward constrained socialism.

Yes, the Nazi party was fascist. The opposite of fascism is anarchism (not communism as someone stated earlier). There can be constrained and unconstrained socialist fascists and anarchists.

 

[Phish_Phan]

National Socialism is leftist.
Socialism is a leftist ideology.

Read the thread…we’ve proven that is not the case.

If you want me to go into the economics of it all you gotta do is ask. But people here seem more interested in rhetoric than facts so oh well

 

[Phish_Phan]

Yes, the Nazi party was fascist. The opposite of fascism is anarchism (not communism as someone stated earlier).

Anarchists believe in a stateless classless society in which the means of production are operated democratically. That is the definition of Communism.

The only difference between Anarchism and Marxism is the level of authority necessary to achieve that Communist society.

I think we can all agree that Communism is a far left ideology.

So if Anarchism is the opposite of Fascism and Anarchism is a tendency of Communism and Communism is left wing what does that tell you about where Fascism lies on the political spectrum?

 

[christosdavid]

Both Naziism and Communism are extreme totalitarian states, maybe if you think of the continuum as more of a circle than a straight line… they nearly meet at the top…

Most political analysts, however, will mark Nazi as extreme right-wing and Commies as extreme left wing.

 

[Kaninchen]

I think the continuum idea can confuse as much as illuminate.

Both the Reich and the Soviet Union were violent, authoritarian regimes trying to invent futures by social engineering of the population - that’s what they had in common.

The Reich had private ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange, in the USSR there was state ownership and control of the means of production, distribution and exchange - that’s what they didn’t have in common.

 

[Sonic]

Anarchists believe in a stateless classless society in which the means of production are operated democratically. That is the definition of Communism.

According to Thomas Sowell, Marxist ideology has at it’s aim a stateless classless society once it’s reforms had been achieved, but advocates revolution and extreme authoritarian measures to establish it’s goal. Only once society had evolved, through the guidance of the party’s elite, can it be allowed to live in a stateless classless society. That was seen as a process that could take generations to achieve. Until then, the people would have to live under the authority of their leaders (since the majority is viewed as backward and uneducated).

Marxism/ Communism is centrist socialist. It’s fascist in the beginning with the final goal of an anarchist utopia (which has never been achieved).