Germany's neo-Nazi underground

[Scott_Lafrance]

lol- fascism is “left wing”? Fascism is the Right sir- well a demonized version of the right- but it certainly isn’t of the Left.

I guess one could say Communism is “left wing” but not Nazism.

Hmmm, what’s the difference, again?

Fascism advocates the creation of a totalitarian single-party state that seeks the mass mobilization of a nation through indoctrination, physical education, discipline and family policy (such as eugenics). That state is led by a supreme leader who exercises a dictatorship over the fascist movement, the government and other state institutions. Fascist governments forbid and suppress opposition.

In modern usage, the word “communism” is still often used to refer to the policies of self-declared socialist governments comprising one-party states which were single legal political party systems operating under centrally planned economies and a state ownership of the means of production, with the state, in turn, claiming that it represented the interests of the working classes. The state is led by a single-party rule with a supreme leader who exercises a effective dictatorship over the government and the economy. Communist governments forbid and suppress opposition.

 

[Kaninchen]

Marxism/ Communism is centrist socialist. It’s fascist in the beginning with the final goal of an anarchist utopia (which has never been achieved).

Where did Fascist regimes take control of the means of production, distribution and exchange?

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Where did Fascist regimes take control of the means of production, distribution and exchange?

While they didn’t TAKE OVER them, per se, they could only operate under the express consent and direction of the state. So in reality, there is little practical difference.

 

[Kaninchen]

While they didn’t TAKE OVER them, per se, they could only operate under the express consent and direction of the state. So in reality, there is little practical difference.

There was an awful lot of difference.

The main ‘control’ in Fascism was government contracts for areas such as arms and construction, what could be described as a transfer payment from the taxpayer to private profit.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

There was an awful lot of difference.

The main ‘control’ was government contracts for areas such as arms and construction, what could be described as a transfer payment from the taxpayer to private profit.

They were still required to produce what the state mandated them to produce. So, rather than being rewarded for being a loyal party member, which is how it happens in communist countries, they were rewarded with profit. Semantics, but little practical difference.

 

[Kaninchen]

They were still required to produce what the state mandated them to produce. So, rather than being rewarded for being a loyal party member, which is how it happens in communist countries, they were rewarded with profit. Semantics, but little practical difference.

I realise that I was writing in ‘European’ rather than ‘American’ and apologise for replying to your post.

 

[estesbob]

Read the thread…we’ve proven that is not the case.

If you want me to go into the economics of it all you gotta do is ask. But people here seem more interested in rhetoric than facts so oh well

You’ve done no such thing Facism is now an always has been a left wing ideology. As with the modern extreme left it is grounded on eugenics,anti-semetism and massive Govt regulation of people’s lives

 

[LemonAndLime]

National Socialism is leftist.
Socialism is a leftist ideology.

The word socialism doesn’t necessarily mean left.

Hitler hated left-ring politics, especially communist beliefs. Any textbook will tell you that.

 

[LemonAndLime]

You’ve done no such thing Facism is now an always has been a left wing ideology. As with the modern extreme left it is grounded on eugenics,anti-semetism and massive Govt regulation of people’s lives

No it isn’t. Facism is right wing. Remember, left/right wing ideals form a U shape so meet in the middle at some point so it’s easy to get confused.

But, just so that we can move this thread on, here is a dictionary definition -

fas·cism/ˈfaSHizəm/
Noun:

An authoritarian and nationalistic **right-wing** system of government and social organization.
(in general use) Extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.

And a link -

Fascism is often considered right-wing due to its social conservatism and authoritarian means of opposing egalitarianism.[43] [44] Robert Stackleberg places fascism — including Nazism, which he says is “a radical variant of fascism” — on the right, explaining that "the more a person deems absolute equality among all people to be a desirable condition, the further left he or she will be on the ideological spectrum. The more a person considers inequality to be unavoidable or even desirable, the further to the right he or she will be.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#Position_in_the_political_spectrum

Now lets move on!

 

[Phish_Phan]

Until someone shows me a link where Fascism wishes to give the working class control over the means of production in a democratic nature then rhetoric is just being spit

 

[bbarrick8383]

No it isn’t. Facism is right wing. Remember, left/right wing ideals form a U shape so meet in the middle at some point so it’s easy to get confused.

But, just so that we can move this thread on, here is a dictionary definition -

fas·cism/ˈfaSHizəm/
Noun:

An authoritarian and nationalistic **right-wing** system of government and social organization.
(in general use) Extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.

And a link -

Fascism is often considered right-wing due to its social conservatism and authoritarian means of opposing egalitarianism.[43] [44] Robert Stackleberg places fascism — including Nazism, which he says is “a radical variant of fascism” — on the right, explaining that "the more a person deems absolute equality among all people to be a desirable condition, the further left he or she will be on the ideological spectrum. The more a person considers inequality to be unavoidable or even desirable, the further to the right he or she will be.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism#Position_in_the_political_spectrum

Now lets move on!

It’s an interesting topic and I think all too many people make the mistake in thinking that being right in the middle is the perfect place to be.

To me it goes a lot deeper than that.

If you want to be a moderate in the US, fine do so at your local, county and state level. I’m sure I would find a lot more common ground with moderates in that case.

But on the Federal level, forget it, I ain’t budging.

 

[Bezant]

Ten murders blamed on a neo-Nazi underground cell have raised fresh fears about far-right extremism in Germany. BBC Radio One Newsbeat’s Sima Kotecha went to investigate.

There have been reports of pro-Hitler parties here during the summer months where guests sing “Hitler is my Fuehrer”, and chant “Heil” around a bonfire. The village is in one of only two states where the far-right National Democratic Party (NPD) has a seat in parliament.

It is places like Jamel that are increasingly worrying the German Bundestag - especially after recent revelations of a neo-Nazi terror cell in the eastern town of Zwickau which operated under the name “National Socialist Underground” (NSU).

Investigators believe it was behind a string of racially motivated murders between 2000 and 2006 in which eight Turks and a Greek were killed. A policewoman was murdered in 2007.

bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16056399

Russia’s neo-Nazi problem appears worse. A few months ago I saw a report about a group of African and Asian students in Moscow. There were very few places they could go and when they did go out, the threat of assault was always on their mind. I’ve heard of some of these groups murdering children as young as 7. While I’ve always admired Russian history and would like to visit Moscow and St. Petersburg one day, I am reluctant to travel on my own as a person of colour unless the government will control this problem.

 

[LemonAndLime]

Russia’s neo-Nazi problem appears worse. A few months ago I saw a report about a group of African and Asian students in Moscow. There were very few places they could go and when they did go out, the threat of assault was always on their mind. I’ve heard of some of these groups murdering children as young as 7. While I’ve always admired Russian history and would like to visit Moscow and St. Petersburg one day, but I would feel wary traveling on my own as a person of colour unless the government could control this problem.

I’m sure I read something about black university students being recommended to stay within university grounds as much as possible.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

I’m sure I read something about black university students being recommended to stay within university grounds as much as possible.

No offense to our German posters here, but if you look back at history, you will see that the Germans have a relatively violent history going back before the time of Christ. What makes us think they’s changed? They get beat up and go dormant for a while. The violent factions always resurface.

 

[ringil]

There was an awful lot of difference.

The main ‘control’ in Fascism was government contracts for areas such as arms and construction, what could be described as a transfer payment from the taxpayer to private profit.

I really enjoy reading your posts kaninchen as you have done much of the research “leg work” which my education or even natural inclination hasn’t led me to.

You show a depth of knowledge, and importantly, SUBTILTY OF THOUGHT, which really adds to the discussions around here.

God Bless

 

[Bezant]

I’m sure I read something about black university students being recommended to stay within university grounds as much as possible.

Yes. I heard that students of colour were not allowed to leave the grounds on Hitler’s birthday for their own safety. Imagine? After everything Hitler did to Russia, after everything their grandparents must have endured, they would honour Hitler’s birthday and philosophy?

 

[ringil]

The word socialism doesn’t necessarily mean left.

Hitler hated left-ring politics, especially communist beliefs. Any textbook will tell you that.

Oh, you know we can’t trust “text books”.

 

[Bezant]

I really enjoy reading your posts kaninchen as you have done much of the research “leg work” which my education or even natural inclination hasn’t led me to.

You show a depth of knowledge, and importantly, SUBTILTY OF THOUGHT, which really adds to the discussions around here.

God Bless

I agree.

 

[Ridgerunner]

What were the practical differences between Hitler and Stalin’s governments?

Primarily the uniforms and acronyms. Well, and Stalin was a good deal more efficient in his murderousness.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Primarily the uniforms and acronyms. Well, and Stalin was a good deal more efficient in his murderousness.

He had a bigger population pool to work with. And apparently killing his own people didn’t seem to bother him too much. Just like Mao Zedung. And Pol Pot. And Castro/Guevara. At least the fascists kept the in-house killing to a minimum and focused their violent aggression on the people of other countries.