Chain migration you say? How do you suppose Melania’s parents got their green cards?
I am pointing out what this statement actually represents: the political opinion of three bishops. That does not mean that many of the other bishops don’t support the statement, only that it cannot be presumed to be representative of them all. If your bishop has publicly supported it then you know his position, but you may not assume anything about the other bishops. Support for this position by other bishops cannot be assumed; it must be demonstrated.
I disagree. It is reasonable to assume that unless there is strong evidence to the contrary, a statement by the USCCB represents the will of the bishops, at least as the default position. Not only that, but the statement is in accord with the majority of Americans, so it is not a very extraordinary position to take so as to require extraordinary proofs.LeafByNiggle:
I am pointing out what this statement actually represents: the political opinion of three bishops. That does not mean that many of the other bishops don’t support the statement, only that it cannot be presumed to be representative of them all. If your bishop has publicly supported it then you know his position, but you may not assume anything about the other bishops. Support for this position by other bishops cannot be assumed; it must be demonstrated.
Sometimes I wonder if I am the only person who reads the USCCB Website, twitter, etc. This is one of many items relating to care for our environment that has been done by the US Bishops.
I think it is very important to not make assumptions regarding someones morality simply because they have come to a different conclusion.
; but, far more often I am surprised by his way of thinking and understand him better. It is in our best interests to assume good intent and then listen. We may still disagree but understanding how we have reconciled differences to our shared values allows us to maintain respect for the other person.You aren’t; I just don’t fall for the same gimmicks that the USCCB does or promote them and the Vatican on an appeal to authority fallacy.
That would be ironic given the letter you just linked.
And Cardinal Ratzinger disagrees with you. He was very explicit on this point.
Cardinal Ratzinger did not disagree with me. He was talking about the limitations on the teaching authority of an episcopal conference. I am talking about the ordinary everyday assessment of how many bishops happen to agree with a particular position. So in a sense, I am also talking about the individual bishops, not their conference. I am not ascribing any authority at all to the conference beyond what individual bishops say. And ordinary everyday logic leads me to believe that there are a lot of them (probably most of them) that are in accord with the call that was issued.LeafByNiggle:
And Cardinal Ratzinger disagrees with you. He was very explicit on this point.
“No episcopal conference, as such, has a teaching mission; its documents have no weight of their own save that of the consent given to them by the individual bishops.”
If an individual bishop does not give his consent the document means nothing in his diocese, and his consent cannot be presumed.
You may assume that many bishops support the call-in. What you may not assume is that Bishop X supports it. My bishop put the document up on the diocesan web site so we can reasonably assume he supports their objective. We cannot assume, however, that he considers it a moral obligation, and I rather doubt that he does. I’ll learn more if the Vicar General returns my call and we can discuss this.
I’ll go further and say I rather doubt that any of the bishops considers it a moral obligation.LeafByNiggle:
You may assume that many bishops support the call-in. What you may not assume is that Bishop X supports it. My bishop put the document up on the diocesan web site so we can reasonably assume he supports their objective. We cannot assume, however, that he considers it a moral obligation, and I rather doubt that he does.
The issue I addressed was first raised by you, so you can’t criticize me for talking about something that has “nothing to do with the discussion.”
No, just pointing out the possible hypocrisy of denouncing a system that one’s own wife used to get her parents green cards. Just sayin…
Sure, after his own personal interests have been satisfied. Melania’s parents have already benefited from chain migration. So ending it now is no skin of Trump’s nose.