Get Rid of the Celibacy Requirement

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ConstantLearner said:
That’s die to the increasingly secular lifestyle, the emphasis on the secular, not a prohibition against marriage.

Marriage is a vocation; the priesthood is a vocation. God doesn’t call a man to both. He doesn’t give him his cake and let him eat it, too.
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I’m living proof that the priest shortage is (at least in part) caused by the vow of celibacy. Decades ago, long before I had ever heard the term “priest shortage”, I was very interested in joining the priesthood.

However, I met a wonderful Catholic girl and chose the path of marriage instead, and I’m sure many others did as well.
With churches bing forced to close due to a lack of priests, many of us would be willing to serve in order to keep these parishes open.

“Give him his cake and let him eat it, too!” HA! You can’t be serious!
As you’ve already made clear in your many responses, being married and serving the Church would be a difficult and thankless path, but many would be willing to do so to keep their churches open.
 
glencor63 said:
Part of the issue according to Richard Sipe is half of priests do not keep the vow of celibacy. The church cannot replace a flesh and blood companion/offspring. Priests are asked to live ascetic lives like the desert fathers. Not everyone has this charism. It leads to all sorts of psychological problems.
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And when combined with a culture that has power over people’s lives, and secrecy, and money, and live in all male environments, and adopted the secular culture’s values, you have a leak in the plumbing with all those factors combined.

The culture is a stew, not a steak.
 
PopePiusXIII said:
Oh my gosh if I hear another person say it is about celibacy and not homosexuality then I don’t know what I will do. ~81% of the abuse was boys and at that, the majority was post-pubescent boys. You do not become homosexual by living with men. It is an unnatural desire that needs to be rooted out of the priesthood to stop (almost entirely) the sexual abuse.
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Okay, so let’s say you are successful in driving all of those priests who are SSA out of the priesthood (which is impossible, btw) who are you going to get to replace them?

The removal of SSA priests would inevitably lead to many more parishes shutdown and many more souls lost.

Heck, even purging the Church of all the predators, (estimated around 8% by some) will deepen the shortage crisis.

The only way that your plan would be successful is to greatly increase vocations to the priesthood, and despite all of us praying for this over the past 10+ years, that hasn’t happened.

A major change in Church policy would be required in order to boost the number of priests, and allowing married priests has the potential to do that.
 
The passage I believe you are referring to is 1 Corinthians 9:5:

Here is the protestant Bible translation - 5 Don’t we have the right to take a believing wife along with us, as do the other apostles and the Lord’s brothers and Cephas? - NIV Version

And this is 1 Corinthians 9:5 in the Catholic Douay Rheims Bible - [[5]]Have we not power to carry about a woman, a sister, as well as the rest of the apostles, and the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?

This commentry on the passage is from the Catholic Haydock Bible Commentary - “Ver. 5. It appears certain, from the testimony of the fathers, that S. Paul was not in the state of wedlock. S. Jerom informs us that the apostle is here speaking of such holy women who, according to the Jewish custom, supplied their teachers with the necessaries of life, as we see was done to Christ himself.”

and

“Some erroneous translators have corrupted this text, by rendering it, a sister, a wife; whereas it is certain, S. Paul had no wife, (c. vii. v. 7. 8.) and that he only speaks of such devout women, as according to the custom of the Jewish nation, waited upon the preachers of the gospel, and supplied them with necessaries”
 
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Perhaps part of the reason there is a priestly shortage is because they have been weeding out good men who have tried to become priests.

Maybe if we get rid of the corruption and the bad reputation it has brought, we can get some good priests.
 
StandUp4Truth said:
Until your parish closes and you can no longer get your sacraments, and then it becomes a fiery, eternal problem.
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I’m no longer a practicing Catholic (nothing to do with the PA scandal), and I’m not overly worried about hell. The parish I belonged to, however, was the MC of the archdiocese and in no danger of closing any time in the next fifty years or so.

I left because of Matthew 7:16-20

16 You will know them by their fruits.Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

Six years studying Catholic theology opened my eyes. However, I DO care about the Church. I have family and friends who are practicing Catholics, and it’s important to them. It’s important to a lot of good people, so that’s reason to care, but I’m no longer affected myself.
 
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glencor63 said:
Part of the issue according to Richard Sipe is half of priests do not keep the vow of celibacy. The church cannot replace a flesh and blood companion/offspring. Priests are asked to live ascetic lives like the desert fathers. Not everyone has this charism. It leads to all sorts of psychological problems.
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I honestly don’t think half of all priests leave to marry. That’s just one man’s opinion and HE left to marry himself, so HE has an agenda to push. One must always look at the author and his probable intentions.

There are too many celibate priests in my family, and I’ve had too many as friends, to buy that.

With so many priests in my family, I know chaste priests are not ascetic. They go out to dinner, movies, art galleries, fairs, picnics, etc. They enjoy many friendships, with men, women, and families. Nothing like the desert fathers. I think it’s rather the other way around as it was with St. Augustine. Men who’ve felt they HAD to have a woman in their lives come to find out they don’t once they fall in love with God.

“To fall in love with God is the greatest romance; to seek Him the greatest adventure; to find Him, the greatest human achievement.” - St. Augustine of Hippo

(The above applies no matter what one’s religion.)
 
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He did not say half of all priests leave to marry. He said that at any given time half of all priests DO NOT keep the vow of celibacy!
Half would mean a number in excess of
200,000 ( There are 400,000 in the world). They have sex with men or women and upwards of 6% (later revised to 9%) are pedophiles. He conducted a 25 year study about the priesthood. He knew about Cardinal McCarrick years ago and attempted to alert church officials in the US and at the Vatican. He was blacklisted in several dioceses. He said that the sex abuse crisis will never be solved because too many members of the clergy are compromised. Celibacy is not practiced by half of all priests at every level of the Catholic Church. The laity assumes priests are celibate, but the reality is very different. Celibate priests are the exception to the rule. He left the priesthood for many reasons. His firsthand knowledge of the dark side of the priesthood was a major reason.
 
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I’m curious about why you left the Catholic Church and how this passage relates.
 
If you’ve ever been to seminary, which I’m sure you haven’t, it drives a lot of good strong Catholic men away because the incredible homosexual subculture. It IS a homosexual problem. Especially when 81% was male boys. And among them the overwhelming majority post pubescent boys. So it is a homosexual problem. It’s hurting our vocations and obviously hurting the faithful.
 
glencor63 said:
He did not say half of all priests leave to marry. He said that at any given time half of all priests DO NOT keep the vow of celibacy!
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Celibacy IS the unmarried state. If a person is not celibate, he is married.

Priests in the Roman Rite promise to be celibate, willingly sacrificing the natural gifts of marriage and children. Read more about celibacy.

Do you mean chaste? I agree with that, but if a priest breaks a promise to his bishop, he will break one to his wife.

Many married men are unfaithful to their wives.

Priests do not take vows. They make promises to their bishop and their bishop’s successors.

www.bmorevocations.org

Home - Vocations

Prayer for Vocations Lord Jesus, You chose the apostles, to make disciples of all nations, and by baptism and confirmation You have called us to build up Your Holy Church, especially here in the Archdiocese of Baltimore. We implore you to choose among us, Your children, many priests and...
www.bmorevocations.org
 
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PopePiusXIII said:
If you’ve ever been to seminary, which I’m sure you haven’t, it drives a lot of good strong Catholic men away because the incredible homosexual subculture. It IS a homosexual problem. Especially when 81% was male boys. And among them the overwhelming majority post pubescent boys. So it is a homosexual problem. It’s hurting our vocations and obviously hurting the faithful.
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I’ve lectured at the Pontifical College Josephinum, north of Columbus, Ohio. I’ve talked to many seminarians there.

It is NOT a celibacy problem, and it is definitely NOT a homosexual problem.

It IS lack of preparation in the seminary.
 
"PopePiusXIII:
Especially when 81% was male boys.
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Males ARE boys. And 20% were girls. One-fifth. Most homosexuals will not abuse. Purging the seminary and priesthood of them will not eliminate the problem.

Young men in the seminary are not being properly prepared for the rigors of the priesthood. And I don’t mean celibacy.
 
Mboo said:
No, St. Paul gave that advice to ALL Christians, not just priests. And it was just advice, then he did not oblige.
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Priests are Christians. It was not just advice, but advice that celibacy was better, that is, it has value. No one was obliged to celibacy, or the priesthood, for that matter.

The point is doctrinal, that celibacy is of value. The practice of mandatory celibacy for priest has only been around for about 900 years, or to put this in perspective, four times longer than the United States of America.
 
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glencor63 said:
I’m curious about why you left the Catholic Church and how this passage relates.
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I left because in my six years of formal study of theology at a Catholic college, I found I could not agree with much of the doctrine and dogma of Catholicism. If I didn’t leave, I would have been a hypocrite. I don’t think the Church wanted me, either, since our views are so divergent. But that doesn’t mean I don’t care about the Church and its future. I do.

Seminarians have to be better prepared for the temptations they will face, for one thing, just as we prepare children for temptations and danger. Right now, they are leaving the seminary, and being ordained, with almost no preparation in this area.
 
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Shakuhachi said:
But if one has SSA , getting married, living our sexuality and having a family is off the table. Celibacy is the only option. Might as well be a priest.
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SSA men and women have been getting married and having children for hundreds of thousands of years, though I’m not pretending that this isn’t potentially problematic. In a hypersexualized culture, the emphasis on physical attraction tends to surpass other qualities.
 
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MagdalenaRita said:
Here is the protestant Bible translation - 5 Don’t we have the right to take a believing wife along with us, as do the other apostles and the Lord’s brothers and Cephas? - NIV Version
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MagdalenaRita said:
“Some erroneous translators have corrupted this text, by rendering it, a sister, a wife; whereas it is certain, S. Paul had no wife, (c. vii. v. 7. 8.) and that he only speaks of such devout women, as according to the custom of the Jewish nation, waited upon the preachers of the gospel, and supplied them with necessaries”
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I have in my hand the New American bible, translated from the original languages and critical use of all the ancient sources, by members of the Catholic Biblical Association of America, Sponsored by the Bishops’ committee of the Confraternity of Christian Doctrine with Nihil Obstat Stephen J. Hartdegen O.F.M., S.S.I. and Christian P Ceroke, O. Carm., S.T.D., and Imprimatur of Patrick Cardinal O’Boyle, D.D., Archbishop of Washington July 27, 1979.
The passage 1Cor 9:5 in this Catholic bible reads as follows:
Do we not have a right to marry a believing woman like the rest of the apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas?
 
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I must say that I agree with this completely. While I believe at one time a celibate priesthood may have been necessary - I do not think it is necessary or even appropriate today.

I understand the argument “marry to church” but I feel there is strong Biblical support as well as support from our rich Catholic tradition for a married priesthood:
  1. God’s first commandment to us “Be fertile and multiply…” Gen 1:28
  2. The Jewish priesthood was married
  3. Peter was married (admittedly we do not know if his wife was living at the time he joined Jesus)
  4. Eastern Rite Catholics, i.e Byzantine, Maronite and such, have a long tradition of a married priesthood. Though in this tradition the ranks of bishop are generally filled by a celibate priest from what I understand
  5. Those men, who are married and were in ministry prior to joining the Church (i.e. Protestant ministers) and seek to become Catholic priests are permitted to do so
A married priesthood could provide significant stability to the Church - after all, I am sure sons of married priests could very well look to follow in their father’s footsteps. In addition it would help normalize the priesthood and make it more approachable to modern society and Western culture.

As it relates to the current sex scandal - I further believe, unfortunately that this idea of a non-married priesthood promotes a same-sex attracted clergy. How many young, gay men join the priesthood as a way to not “disappoint family” by coming out? The priesthood is the perfect cover for someone who would not want to “come out” and is not comfortable simply not talking about their sexuality. Once these men are in the ranks of the priesthood - not because of a true calling mind you, but rather as an “escape to the cloth” - it must be very difficult to resist temptation of this same sex attraction, and ultimately it is a set up to failure. A married priesthood could solve this issue because the priesthood would no longer be a default position for these men struggling with same sex attraction.

Finally, I would not expect priests to date, but rather once a man has been married for some period of time, he could then seek approval from the Bishop to enter formation to become a priest. If your wife passes away or in the event your wife leaves you or something like that these married priest would not be permitted to remarry - much like how deacons are treated.

So, those are my thoughts!

John
 
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