Getting men back to Mass

[Vocatus]

Ok here goes; this is a catalogue of negatives so please don’t take this as an indication of my general view of the state of the Church.

Liturgical abuses: altars are stormed by veritable armies of extraordinary minsters - 90 % women as young as 17 - blurring the line between the priesthood and laity; use of altar girls, which is not only a scandal to many men (and women too that I know) but, sadly, drives away many boys (future vocations are possibly being lost in droves). A new practice in a parish near me is to recruit mother/son teams to serve at mass - the mothers as an extraordinary ministers (called “eucharistic ministers” in the bulletins btw), and sons as altar servers; mothers, upon request, get to distribute eucharist to the side of the church where the rest of their family is seated. This is all quite scandalous.

Also, lack of clarity on the reality and danger of eternal judgment and ambiguity on the necessity of faith in Christ for eternal salvation… it sometimes seems, sadly, listening to some sermons, that “invincible ignorance” is a surer way to heaven than the Way, the Truth, and the Life.

Thanks be to God, this is by no means true of all parishes, and I am hopeful that revival is on the way…

 

[Joe_5859]

I know EWTN has that Crossing the Goal show that is geared towards bringing men back to the faith. There are books and other resourcces that tie into the program that could be used in a parish environment. I don’t have any first-hand accounts of whether or not it is successful, but it’s something to look into.

 

[Rete]

Seems to me part of the answer entails approaching the women of your parish to figure out why they don’t manage to get their husbands to mass.

Also, I think a lot has been done to create the false impression that sacraments and mass don’t matter much. A lot of people don’t go to confession either.

I can’t speak for all men, but I would personally like very much for regular mass to be a lot more like the original mass. More reverence. Less pop culture.

I think women are able to set aside that issue more easily than most men. Even if they don’t consciously think of it, I do believe many end up with poor opinions on the value of regular mass because the mass itself seems less about sacrifice and two millennia of tradition, and more like a social meeting where people play the guitar and sing together.

For example, I like to show up right after the first mass completes so that I can go an pray quietly for about an hour before mass begins. I pray ten decades of the rosary before mass starts, and then complete the other five afterwards. I read the next chapter in my devotional, etc. Except that time usually gets wrecked when the band shows up gabbing and playing their guitars.

It seems a lot less about God and a lot more about people’s social needs. I personally think men would be more attracted to a more reverent approach. Women seem to have certain spiritual advantages that allow them to get passed all that stuff, or to at least not let it affect them so much that they no longer show up.

 

[Marie5890]

I think also looking the impact of relativism explains a great deal. People who fully believe and embrace a clear dogmatic description of God in general are in the minority. And the Church is very dogmatic.

 

[maryjk]

Seems to me part of the answer entails approaching the women of your parish to figure out why they don’t manage to get their husbands to mass.

Well, I threatened him with a gun, but it didn’t work.

I don’t see how this falls on the wives.

(I am kidding, I haven’t threatened anyone, ever. )

 

[TimothyH]

Seems to me part of the answer entails approaching the women of your parish to figure out why they don’t manage to get their husbands to mass.

Also, I think a lot has been done to create the false impression that sacraments and mass don’t matter much. A lot of people don’t go to confession either.

I can’t speak for all men, but I would personally like very much for regular mass to be a lot more like the original mass. More reverence. Less pop culture.

I think women are able to set aside that issue more easily than most men. Even if they don’t consciously think of it, I do believe many end up with poor opinions on the value of regular mass because the mass itself seems less about sacrifice and two millennia of tradition, and more like a social meeting where people play the guitar and sing together.

For example, I like to show up right after the first mass completes so that I can go an pray quietly for about an hour before mass begins. I pray ten decades of the rosary before mass starts, and then complete the other five afterwards. I read the next chapter in my devotional, etc. Except that time usually gets wrecked when the band shows up gabbing and playing their guitars.

It seems a lot less about God and a lot more about people’s social needs. I personally think men would be more attracted to a more reverent approach. Women seem to have certain spiritual advantages that allow them to get passed all that stuff, or to at least not let it affect them so much that they no longer show up.

It is not a woman’s job to get her husband to Mass. Women have enough to do just to get themselves to Mass, let alone get a few kids dressed and out the door and the last thing a man want’s is his wife nagging him to go to Mass. That’s the quickest way to drive a man away.

-Tim-

 

[Allegra]

I don’t have very deep philosophical answer and I’m not a man myself, but I notice that my parish does seem to have alot of men who are very active and attend with their families. I’ve heard alot of the men say that the CRHP program helped them to realize their important role in their families and in the Church. We also have “That Man Is You”, which is designed to do the same thing. It seems to me that in our culture, we’ve sort of sidelined husbands and fathers as something nice to have on occasion but not at all neccessary to the function of a family. I wonder if its happened in the Church as well.

 

[Joe_5859]

Well, I threatened him with a gun, but it didn’t work.

I don’t see how this falls on the wives.

(I am kidding, I haven’t threatened anyone, ever. )

That line jumped out at me, too. I’m not sure the solution to getting more men at Mass is having their wives “get them” to go.

 

[Marie5890]

Speaking of those of us who are Americans, one of the innate things about being an American, and pretty much defines it, is the rugged individualism. Being an American means we are encouraged to formulate our own ideas, encourage free thinking, being free to hold different opinions and views.

Being a truly devout and faithful Catholic means one submits to the Maginsterium, being obedient to the Church’s teachings and authority, which often is very dogmatic and legalistic.

Those two kinds of cultures are often at odds and can collide. Contraception being a prime example. We all know what the Church teachings are, yet we all know that most of those who do attend Mass even on a weekly basis are ignoring that (small numbers of children being born to them is evidence of that in many ways). Never mind those who dont attend regularly

So Church teaching collides with rugged American individualism.

Going back to Fr’s original question, one could phrase the question another way. Why are men (and women) staying away? or going to other churches (ie non-Catholic)

 

[johnnykins]

It seems there are fewer men in church these days. What’s the cause of this? Of course our culture and loss of religious belief is a big part. But it’s more than that, I believe! Some say the men stay away because of flaccid preaching, other’s say it’s effeminate music, some might say the Church has softened it’s teaching too much. But it’s crucial to get the men back, because statistics show that children often mimic Dad’s religious practices. So if Dad doesn’t go to Mass, when the children grow up, they won’t either.

So, why don’t men attend Mass, and how do we get them back? This priest would like to hear your ideas,so I may implement them at my earliest opportunity!

I can’t speak for all men…but I left for about 20 years. Why? In no particular order:

1. Mal-catechesis during 16 years of “catholic” education in the 60s and 70s.
2. Arrogance by vowed religious who had little reason to be arrogant.
3. Disbelieving nuns and priests who I met over time.
4. Silly services in the name of being “relevant.”
5. ****** music that is insipid, treacly, without meaning or edifying in the least.
6. Iconoclasm that ruined churches in the name of modernization.
7. An ethos of catholic self-hatred that permeated the church - or at least catholic
   education.
8. Felt banners (see silly services above)…I walk out if I see one when I walk in to this day.
9. ad libbed Masses…if the priest is bound by nothing why should I be bound by anything?

Why did I come back?

1. I learned the faith.
2. I got to the point in my life where I will call an arrogant boob an arrogant boob to his/her face whether it is a priest, nun, bishop or whatever if the circumstance warrant it.
   3 I disregard new ageism, enneagrams, therapeutic touch, and heresy espousing clergy and religious.
3. I simply leave silly services when I can…and try to get them to change when I can’t.
4. Ditto for ****** music.
5. I try to stay involved to avoid wreckovation or just poor taste in renovation.
6. I call people on it when they espouse catholic self-hatred.
7. If I see a felt banner…see 4 above
8. If the Mass or liturgy is ad libbed, I write letters. I know the rubrics, and I know I have a right to a licit as well as valid Mass.
9. I was appalled at the anti-catholicism I experienced in life especially after the scandal hit. I had to come back to work to correct things, because you can’t abandon family.

I really think a lot of men have left because they have seen the Bishops and clergy abandon the faithful - and the faith.

 

[Samson01]

Address the overall disempowerment and emancipation of males within society as a whole. The church being a microcosm of the same. Adhere to tradition and rubics. Education and defense of the domestic church. Actually provide the sacraments. Pastoral groups to find them and bring them back. It needs to be proactive, not lure them back with treats. Go get them.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I agree with a lot that has been said, but I’ll add that it starts with the boys. Getting the boys to be religious is tough if Dad isn’t, but it can be done.

One of the worst things, I think, that has happened in the church in the U.S. is that boys no longer have a specific “boy” role. Not in the Mass, not in the server garb, not in the schools…nowhere.

Girls tend to be more mature and conscientious and are less distractible than boys. Boys are little Huns-in-the-making without real corrective intervention. Long ago, boys really did have their specific “boy roles”; in serving Mass, in the schools and at home. And they were disciplined roles. Anybody who grew up as a server in the Tridentine Mass knows how disciplined that role was. Every movement was prescribed, and in ways so exacting that probably most non-servers didn’t even know it. How many people now know that the book was positioned differently on the different sides of the altar and that the step one paused on after placing it was prescribed, exaclty, as was the signal to return to the foot of the altar? One had to learn one’s Latin, and there was a lot of it. It was very exacting. Boys need that. And yes, the garb was priest-like.

Priests were figures of awe and respect. They were not “Father Bill” or “Father Jim”. They were “Father Westerman” or “Father O’Malley”.

And the churches themselves inspired awe. Men need that. So do boys. It was for very good reason that the Greeks and Romans and Catholics for nearly two millenia designed awe-inspiring buildings. Boys and men need “something bigger than myself” to respect.
And while we’re talking about it, the churches had magnificent statutes of male and female saints. What wonderful messages they were (in some places still are) to young minds. Holy men and women, life-size and larger, to inspire awe.

Think about that football game lots of the men stay home to watch. What does it show? It shows incredibly disciplined action of huge and very manly men acting out exacting roles in magnificent stadia. Think about it.

 

[baseballLife]

I agree with a lot that has been said, but I’ll add that it starts with the boys. Getting the boys to be religious is tough if Dad isn’t, but it can be done.

One of the worst things, I think, that has happened in the church in the U.S. is that boys no longer have a specific “boy” role. Not in the Mass, not in the server garb, not in the schools…nowhere.

Girls tend to be more mature and conscientious and are less distractible than boys. Boys are little Huns-in-the-making without real corrective intervention. Long ago, boys really did have their specific “boy roles”; in serving Mass, in the schools and at home. And they were disciplined roles. Anybody who grew up as a server in the Tridentine Mass knows how disciplined that role was. Every movement was prescribed, and in ways so exacting that probably most non-servers didn’t even know it. How many people now know that the book was positioned differently on the different sides of the altar and that the step one paused on after placing it was prescribed, exaclty, as was the signal to return to the foot of the altar? One had to learn one’s Latin, and there was a lot of it. It was very exacting. Boys need that. And yes, the garb was priest-like.

Priests were figures of awe and respect. They were not “Father Bill” or “Father Jim”. They were “Father Westerman” or “Father O’Malley”.

And the churches themselves inspired awe. Men need that. So do boys. It was for very good reason that the Greeks and Romans and Catholics for nearly two millenia designed awe-inspiring buildings. Boys and men need “something bigger than myself” to respect.
And while we’re talking about it, the churches had magnificent statutes of male and female saints. What wonderful messages they were (in some places still are) to young minds. Holy men and women, life-size and larger, to inspire awe.

Think about that football game lots of the men stay home to watch. What does it show? It shows incredibly disciplined action of huge and very manly men acting out exacting roles in magnificent stadia. Think about it.

Not sure I’d be that harsh on boys. I think the problem is they find nothing reassuring of their masculinity in the church. Heck what even is masculinity anymore? The problem is we try too much to be nice in church. We shy away from doctrine and try “not to offend anyone.” Standing strong for something you believe in is what men do. When there is too much flexing of the rules to “not hurt feelings” you essentially tell a guy what he does doesn’t matter. We don’t have to go fire and brimstone but a backbone would be nice. I think boys would be interested in philosophy and thus keepers of the faith. Catholic philosophy is deep and rich. Share the wealth!

 

[Samson01]

… And break the current status quoe. I once ask to help in prison ministry, denied. Once ask to help in CCD with pastoral approval with use of the Didache. The current teachers were not interested. I had sat in on one of my sons classes and brought up adoration. These were seniors in HS. A girl looked confused as I mentioned the word. She didn’t know what adoration was. That is when I talked to the pastor about helping out. He was good with it and the use of the Didache series we picked. But apparently it was up to the current teachers that would rather draw pictures of Moses, arks and rainbows.

 

[Marie5890]

… And break the current status quoe. I once ask to help in prison ministry, denied. Once ask to help in CCD with pastoral approval with use of the Didache. The current teachers were not interested. I had sat in on one of my sons classes and brought up adoration. These were seniors in HS. A girl looked confused as I mentioned the word. She didn’t know what adoration was. That is when I talked to the pastor about helping out. He was good with it and the use of the Didache series we picked. But apparently it was up to the current teachers that would rather draw pictures of Moses, arks and rainbows.

Wow, what a truly discouraging experience.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Not sure I’d be that harsh on boys. I think the problem is they find nothing reassuring of their masculinity in the church. Heck what even is masculinity anymore? The problem is we try too much to be nice in church. We shy away from doctrine and try “not to offend anyone.” Standing strong for something you believe in is what men do. When there is too much flexing of the rules to “not hurt feelings” you essentially tell a guy what he does doesn’t matter. We don’t have to go fire and brimstone but a backbone would be nice. I think boys would be interested in philosophy and thus keepers of the faith. Catholic philosophy is deep and rich. Share the wealth!

I hadn’t really thought to be harsh on boys. But I was one once and raised one and I genuinely believe they need to challenged in ways girls don’t, and i think they need to be awed in ways girls don’t. I think boys will rise to the occasion.

 

[YoungTradCath]

Deep spiritual experiences would be good however I think there needs to be caution. This could backfire if they turn out to be too overly emotional and stuff like that…

Similar with the seminaries…I went to one and it was a depressing experience because of how unenthused everyone was and how weak it felt. It was NOT something I’d encourage. I’d say visiit a seminary that is obviously a good one

Well, yeah, in saying “deep, spiritual” I was trying to oppose that to superficially emotionalistic.

 

[CR89er]

And the churches themselves inspired awe. Men need that. So do boys. It was for very good reason that the Greeks and Romans and Catholics for nearly two millenia designed awe-inspiring buildings. Boys and men need “something bigger than myself” to respect.
And while we’re talking about it, the churches had magnificent statutes of male and female saints. What wonderful messages they were (in some places still are) to young minds. Holy men and women, life-size and larger, to inspire awe.

Think about that football game lots of the men stay home to watch. What does it show? It shows incredibly disciplined action of huge and very manly men acting out exacting roles in magnificent stadia. Think about it.

This is an incredible insight. Thank you for putting into words what had been a loosely-formed thought pinballing around in my head for quite some time.

 

[maryjk]

As a priest, I’ve seen that men often don’t sing during Mass. Further, I’ve noticed a lot of the hymns being sung are sort of emotional and quite expressive in a way that men might not be comfortable with. I’m thinking of hymns such as “Here in this place” and “Sing Out, Earth and Sky”.** I wonder of we were using a chanted antiphons instead, or more traditional hymns, would more men sing?**

Right now I am Parochial Vicar in my parish. Probably in a year I will be a pastor and able to make some significant liturgical choices . I would like to offer an OF liturgy that uses legitimate options that are not often used. I am interested if you would be would desire to attending this type of Liturgy, and why/why not

1. No hymns:** instead we chant the entrace antiphon and communion antiphon. Silence during the offertory.**
   **
2. Chanted Latin Ordinaries **(Gloria, Creed, Sanctus, Agnus Dei), other prayers in vernacular
3. No communion hymn, just chant communion antiphon+ but post-communion reflection sung by choir or cantor
4. Lots of silence (offertory, communion) rather than filling those times with hymns
5. Oh and a really awesome homiily 10-15 minutes with lots of energy and hopefully inspiring

What do you think?

1. 
   
   Before I became a priest, I noticed that the more devout I became, Sunday Mass became more difficult. I wanted to go to Mass to pray in community, to experience Christ’s presence, to be present at the sacrifice, and receive communion. However, I often felt the choices made for how the Mass was offered didn’t lead me into the prayer I craved. In fact, I increasingly experienced that rather than leading me into prayer, I had to fight the liturgical choices in order to be able to pray.
   
   I wanted to hear the beautiful, scripturally based antiphons used, the ones that the Church gives us in the Roman Missal. Instead, we always sung hymns, which often had nothing to do with the Mass of the day. I didn’t usually find the hymns drew me into prayer and recollection, and I craved prayer. When I looked around I often saw listless faces, especially among men, who often just sat there without singing. There was little silent time in the Masses I attended, and I craved time to just pray, without singing.

1. It seems there are fewer men in church these days. What’s the cause of this? Of course our culture and loss of religious belief is a big part. But it’s more than that, I believe! Some say the men stay away because of flaccid preaching, other’s say it’s effeminate music, some might say the Church has softened it’s teaching too much. But it’s crucial to get the men back, because statistics show that children often mimic Dad’s religious practices. So if Dad doesn’t go to Mass, when the children grow up, they won’t either.
   
   So, why don’t men attend Mass, and how do we get them back? This priest would like to hear your ideas,so I may implement them at my earliest opportunity!

   Father,
   It seems that you have an issue with hymns at Mass. But I wonder if eliminating them is the cure all you seem to think it might be.
   
   And I’m not sure that this is the place to find your answers. In fact, I think your parish has the answer to all of these questions. In addition, what might work at your current parish might not at your new parish. Parishes vary so much even within a diocese, let alone across a country or within the world. So when you are reassigned, that is the time to figure out what might work to get people in the pew. And what to do to keep them there.

 

[Samson01]

I’m sorry, it seems I addressed the question as how to keep men going to mass…as for the OP, they aren’t going so you have to contact them somehow…