Gingrich: John Bolton will be my secretary of state

[estesbob]

I’ll just make this correction as to the SCOTUS vote and then I have no more to say about 2000 here. Other than again to pray it does not happen in a Gingrich/Bolton vs Obama scenario.

"The U.S. Supreme Court justices, too, were narrowly divided, 5-4. The five justices voting in favor of the stay were the same five conservatives who had been moving the Rehnquist Court to the right for more than a decade. The first hearing of Bush v. Gore telegraphed to the nation what would happen if the Court took further action in the case.

The Court’s third and final intervention in the 2000 presidential election came just days later. In its unsigned opinion, the Court explained that it had voted 5-4 to put a stop to the Florida recount. Allowing the recount to go forward, the Court said, would violate the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. The U.S. Supreme Court sent the case back down to the Florida Supreme Court, which had no alternative but to dismiss it. The presidential election of 2000 had been decided, in essence, by the vote of one Supreme Court justice."

dummies.com/how-to/content/supreme-court-case-study-bush-v-gore.html

The decion was 7-2 to overturn the Florida Supreme Court and stop the recount. The 5-4 vote what the remedy should be. Later recounts showed tha even if the recount had continued Bush would have won

It is stunning that over a decade later the Left still peddles the 5-4 myth.

 

[SamH]

The decion was 7-2 to overturn the Florida Supreme Court and stop the recount. The 5-4 vote what the remedy should be. Later recounts showed tha even if the recount had continued Bush would have won

It is stunning that over a decade later the Left still peddles the 5-4 myth.

Agreed except the actual remedy vote was 5-1-1-1. Each of the 4 dissenters had their own opinion of remedy and couldn’t even agree with each other.

 

[SamH]

Well, it’s a start. But it hardly makes up for all the damage Bolton did during his embarrassing tenure as UN ambassador.

Damage?

 

[ishii]

Ishii, I think you’re mixing me up with another poster. In any case, you could probably stand to chill out a little bit, take some deep breaths, and relax. I’ll say a prayer for you. God bless

Uh-huh. Never said you were the one posting did I? The ones against Bolton are comparing him to the Nazis and calling him a warmonger, and you tell me to chill and relax? I think you have it backwards, but whatever.

That’s just not true. The center-candidate always wins, it’s just a matter of history. If Gingrich gets the nom, that puts extreme-right Gingrich against an Obama who will seem like a centrist by comparison.

Romney on the other had, is far more centrist, especially compared to Obama. Romney is good on the economy (the paramount issue of this election), and he is just so much more likeable than either Gingrich or Obama.

You’re forgetting that general elections are won and lost by appealing to independents, not the party base. You have to look at this dispassionate, put aside your dislike of Obama and see the political landscape for what it truly is.

Funny, the most liberal/left senator becomes president and governs like liberal leftist, ramming proto-socialized healthcare down our throats and the leftist social agenda and you him a “center” candidate? Is that going to be the strategy of the Democrats in the coming year? Obama is a centrist? And Gingrich is “extreme right” ? What can you provide to back that contention up? His sitting with Pelosi to express concerns about global warming? His backing of some kind of public option for healthcare in the early 90’s? His non-hardline approach on immigration? Labels are cheap, Stancyk. If you back up your points, I think you’ll find yourself taken a bit more seriously - if that is your goal.

As for Romney, I would agree that he is the more centrist GOP candidate. Right now, I think he’d fair better in a general election against Obama. Obama would have a tougher time using his billion dollars of campaign money to smear him.

Ishii

 

[estesbob]

Agreed except the actual remedy vote was 5-1-1-1. Each of the 4 dissenters had their own opinion of remedy and couldn’t even agree with each other.

Correct. They agreed 7-2 to overturn the Fla decision(which ,BTW ,was 5-4 with 5 Democrat apoitntees in the majortiy) 5 USC Jusitces said Fla law was clear and the recount could not be completed within the time called for in Fla law. 4 other justices had 4 different opinions on under what basis the recount could be done. After the fact the NYT (among others) completed the recount and Bush won

 

[SamH]

Correct. They agreed 7-2 to overturn the Fla decision(which ,BTW ,was 5-4 with 5 Democrat apoitntees in the majortiy) 5 USC Jusitces said Fla law was clear and the recount could not be completed within the time called for in Fla law. 4 other justices had 4 different opinions on under what basis the recount could be done. After the fact the NYT (among others) completed the recount and Bush won

Not to mention the simple fact that there had already been one official recount as called for under the law a recount that showed Bush won - again. It was only when Gore tried to order selective manual recounts with canvassing boards charged with the duty to determine the INTENT of the voter instead of counting the ballots as the person had actually voted.

The strangest part about the issues in Palm Beach County, all of the double punched ballots had a vote cast for Gore. There were no double-punched ballots for Buchanan and Bush—only Buchanan and Gore or Bush and Gore. The conclusion, Al Gore supporters were prepunching ballots for Gore.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Uh-huh. Never said you were the one posting did I? The ones against Bolton are comparing him to the Nazis and calling him a warmonger, and you tell me to chill and relax? I think you have it backwards, but whatever.

Obama would have a tougher time using his billion dollars of campaign money to smear him.

Ishii

Actually, since Jon Corzine seems to have misplaced somewhere around $1.2 billion [or maybe $700 million … they can’t seem to figure it out ] … and Corzine’s brain just turned to “chocolate pudding” … maybe Obama has more than that.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

Not to mention the simple fact that there had already been one official recount as called for under the law a recount that showed Bush won - again. It was only when Gore tried to order selective manual recounts with canvassing boards charged with the duty to determine the INTENT of the voter instead of counting the ballots as the person had actually voted.

The strangest part about the issues in Palm Beach County, all of the double punched ballots had a vote cast for Gore. There were no double-punched ballots for Buchanan and Bush—only Buchanan and Gore or Bush and Gore. The conclusion, Al Gore supporters were prepunching ballots for Gore.

A lot of verrrry strange things.

I received a phone call from some “police officer”; they were investigating voter fraud. Apparently a LOT of voters had listed my office address as their residence and the caller was curious as to how many people actually resided in that building. The answer was “zero”.

 

[estesbob]

Not to mention the simple fact that there had already been one official recount as called for under the law a recount that showed Bush won - again. It was only when Gore tried to order selective manual recounts with canvassing boards charged with the duty to determine the INTENT of the voter instead of counting the ballots as the person had actually voted.

The strangest part about the issues in Palm Beach County, all of the double punched ballots had a vote cast for Gore. There were no double-punched ballots for Buchanan and Bush—only Buchanan and Gore or Bush and Gore. The conclusion, Al Gore supporters were prepunching ballots for Gore.

People also forget that this was the second time the United States Supreme Court has rebuffed the Florida Supreme Court. . The Supreme Court had prior to this overturned the Florida Supreme Court and sent the issue that can then and were basically ignored. And we should never lose sight of the fact that numerous recounts were done after the fact and every single one of them showed Bush winning

 

[Dale_M]

So am I. What difference does it make when you became a Life Member?

Back in 2007, when first running for president, Romney was faced with the problem of having supported gun control measures in the past. He defended himself by saying he was a Life Member of the NRA. Then a reporter discovered he hadn’t joined until the previous year.

It was an amusing incident which I thought some people would remember. Truth is, I don’t think it matters whether Romney, or Bolton, is a member. Joining an organization simply takes money.

 

[mary_bobo]

Back in 2007, when first running for president, Romney was faced with the problem of having supported gun control measures in the past. He defended himself by saying he was a Life Member of the NRA. Then a reporter discovered he hadn’t joined until the previous year.

It was an amusing incident which I thought some people would remember. Truth is, I don’t think it matters whether Romney, or Bolton, is a member. Joining an organization simply takes money.

You are right about that, however you don’t have to be a long time member to be a life member. So Romney was telling the truth, no matter when he joined.

 

[CMatt25]

The ONLY way Obama can win is if someone starts a third party.

A more conservative 3rd party or a moderate one? I could see in a Romney - Obama showdown a far “right” Tea Party extremist 3rd party could perhaps hurt Romney. But if the GOP grassroots goes ahead and nominates Gingrich despite many in the party who know and have worked with him having reservations about him and who are not jumping on his bandwagon… And then someone like a more moderate Huntsman were to run 3rd party, I could see both Gingrich and Obama perhaps losing some moderate votes.

But the last time around Obama won enough moderates. The polls almost a yr out mean little. And against Gingrich by the time another 11 mos roll around, as Stanczyk said, the extreme “right” Gingrich against an Obama, will make the President seem like a centrist by comparison.

Now of course I know the hardcore grassroots think Gingrich will mop up in the debates and they like his demeanor. But he isn’t going to have a dozen or more debates as he is having in pre - primary season. There will be 2 or 3 general election ones. And it’s no sure thing Gingrich knocks Obama out. No sure thing either the majority of the electorate will take to Gingrich in the same way the extreme “right” does. But should he be on his way to the nomination as polling in these early caucus and primary states now suggest, time shall tell.

 

[bbarrick8383]

Now of course I know the hardcore grassroots think Gingrich will mop up in the debates and they like his demeanor. But he isn’t going to have a dozen or more debates as he is having in pre - primary season. There will be 2 or 3 general election ones. And it’s no sure thing Gingrich knocks Obama out. No sure thing either the majority of the electorate will take to Gingrich in the same way the extreme “right” does. But should he be on his way to the nomination as polling in these early caucus and primary states now suggest, time shall tell.

I think Obama will do his best in those debates to avoid Newt as much as possible and focus on emotions. If he faces off with Newt, he will lose.

 

[ishii]

A more conservative 3rd party or a moderate one? I could see in a Romney - Obama showdown a far “right” Tea Party extremist 3rd party could perhaps hurt Romney. But if the GOP grassroots goes ahead and nominates Gingrich despite many in the party who know and have worked with him having reservations about him and who are not jumping on his bandwagon… And then someone like a more moderate Huntsman were to run 3rd party, I could see both Gingrich and Obama perhaps losing some moderate votes.

While I’m sure you’d like a 3rd party candidate to split the GOP vote, I have no idea who that candidate would be. There is no one who would run at this point. I believe Ron Paul has ruled out a run, and although Donald Trump is egotistical enough to run, I don’t think he wants to be the guy who helped Obama win re-election. Who would run? There is no evidence that Huntsman would run as an independent. (incidentally I think Hunstman would make a good president, but he is too boring and uncharismatic to beat Obama).

But the last time around Obama won enough moderates. The polls almost a yr out mean little. And against Gingrich by the time another 11 mos roll around, as Stanczyk said, the extreme “right” Gingrich against an Obama, will make the President seem like a centrist by comparison.

Obama won “moderates” because he fooled some voters into thinking that his #1 left/liberal voting record as a senator didn’t mean anything. And, voters got caught up in the historical nature of electing the first black president. Now, he has a record - and its a record of a liberal/leftist in terms of the healthcare program (had he tried to pass outright socialized medicine like he wanted, it would have been defeated or lead to an even greater shellacking at the polls in the midterms). He also has a leftist social agenda which is outside the mainstream. He will try to use his billion dollars (the party of the poor!) to smear the GOP nominee and hoodwink the voters into thinking he’s a centrist.

Now of course I know the hardcore grassroots think Gingrich will mop up in the debates and they like his demeanor. But he isn’t going to have a dozen or more debates as he is having in pre - primary season. There will be 2 or 3 general election ones. And it’s no sure thing Gingrich knocks Obama out. No sure thing either the majority of the electorate will take to Gingrich in the same way the extreme “right” does. But should he be on his way to the nomination as polling in these early caucus and primary states now suggest, time shall tell.

You are right on your analysis of the debates. Gingrich and his supporters are wrong to think they’ll “mop up” in the debates. All they are doing is raising the expectations for Gingrich and setting him up for a letdown. Obama can hold his own in two or three debates. The only way for Gingrich to really expose Obama would be if they had truly Lincoln-Douglas style debates which Obama would never agree to. Do the quotes you put around “right” imply that you think Gingrich isn’t really extreme right? While I believe that he is a conservative (and his voting record bears this out) I think some of his positions and actions could be called moderate.

Ishii

 

[havana1]

We can relax after President Obama is defeated in November 2012.

We can relax if President Obama is defeated. Not after. But if. Newt as a nominee would be an early Christmas present, with Ron Paul going 3rd party the equivalent of more toys in the stocking.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

We can relax if President Obama is defeated. Not after. But if. Newt as a nominee would be an early Christmas present, with Ron Paul going 3rd party the equivalent of more toys in the stocking.

Ron Paul’s foreign policy is so “strange” that, if he were to be elected President, he would probably abolish the State Department.

 

[Roy5]

A prediction. If Gingrich is nominated by the Republican Obama will win a second term.

** The first possibility is a third-party candidate, possibly Ron Paul, possibly Roemer or someone else.** That will take more than enough votes from Gingrich to reelect Obama.

** Even if that doesn’t happen, the record of Gingrich is so bad that once Americans have a chance to digest it millions who thought they could support him would change their minds. **They simply would not be able to vote for a man with two divorces and a whole string of infidelities, a man who is despised and/or mistrusted by respected GOP colleagues like Coburn and Scarborough, a man who is careless and often incendiary in his language, a man who interprets US history through a warped lens, a man who made millions off basic lobbying even for groups like Freedie Mac, and a man who has such hubris and arrogance so as to discribe himself as a blend of Thatcher and Reagan.

** Once faced with a choice between Gingrich and Obama, Obama will win.** 2012 should be a GOP year, but with Gingrich as the candidate the Democrats will triumph again. And people like me will likely sit on our hands, vote third party or perhaps even reluctantly vote for Obama rather than risk a Gingrich presidency. I can’t believe that America would choose to be led by such a tanished, irresponsible, unprincipled, and adulterated candidate.

 

[dmelosi]

A prediction. If Gingrich is nominated by the Republican Obama will win a second term.

** The first possibility is a third-party candidate, possibly Ron Paul, possibly Roemer or someone else.** That will take more than enough votes from Gingrich to reelect Obama.

** Even if that doesn’t happen, the record of Gingrich is so bad that once Americans have a chance to digest it millions who thought they could support him would change their minds. **They simply would not be able to vote for a man with two divorces and a whole string of infidelities, a man who is despised and/or mistrusted by respected GOP colleagues like Coburn and Scarborough, a man who is careless and often incendiary in his language, a man who interprets US history through a warped lens, a man who made millions off basic lobbying even for groups like Freedie Mac, and a man who has such hubris and arrogance so as to discribe himself as a blend of Thatcher and Reagan.

** Once faced with a choice between Gingrich and Obama, Obama will win.** 2012 should be a GOP year, but with Gingrich as the candidate the Democrats will triumph again. And people like me will likely sit on our hands, vote third party or perhaps even reluctantly vote for Obama rather than risk a Gingrich presidency. I can’t believe that America would choose to be led by such a tanished, irresponsible, unprincipled, and adulterated candidate.

Can you list specifics please?

 

[estesbob]

Can you list specifics please?

Let me give you the Readers Digest version

Hes been married three times
He has a $500,000 line of credit at Tiffanys
He was a paid lobbyist for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac
He would disgrace the Catholic Church and humiliate all Catholics

I think that pretty well covers it.

 

[Roy5]

MelosiFair question I guess, but what do you mena by specifics? Every statement I have made has been well documented in the media. Many of the most conservative voices in America are speaking out against Gingrich. There are numerous accounts by conservative commentators, by people like Rove, Coburn, Scarborough, Will, Coulter and others.

 **Gingrich admits many of the charges but says that he is changed.** Huh? That's his strategy to fool us. I don't believe it for a moment. violate your weddings vows twice by having affairs and discarding two wives. God save us from such a man who would make our president appear to be a travesty. Some people don't seem to fret about such 'personal indiscretions' but I do - and millions of others also will once the campaign gets into high speed. What about being rejected by GOP House members after he became speaker, his $300,000 fine for ethical violations, his huge profits from lobbying (including Freddie Mac), his careless and often contradictory statements, his pseudo-intellectual approach to US history - well, we could go on and on. Do the research. I've followed Gingrich closely and view him as a disaster for the GOP. There are hundreds of specifics, but how can we begin to list them here on CAF?

** The principal reason Gingrich has gone up in the polls is because all the other candidates seem to have alienated sufficient GOP voters to lag**, whether Bachmann, Santorum, Cain, Perry, Paul, Romney, Sad situation. Add to this Gingrich’s facility with language which impresses the less-informed. The best-informed see through it.