Girl Altar Servers

[Art321]

I don’t see anything wrong with girl alter servers. They want to help the priests out! How can that be bad? I’m happy there are girl alter servers! They show their faith and how much love they have for God through their service.

 

[Janet1983]

I don’t see anything wrong with girl alter servers. They want to help the priests out! How can that be bad? I’m happy there are girl alter servers! They show their faith and how much love they have for God through their service.

I don’t see anything wrong with it either, even though some people claim it would deter boys from doing it. I served for 14 years and the boy/girl ratio was always equivalent to the boy/girl ratio at first communion. It’s whether the parents think it’s important enough that is the decisive factor, not whether or not girls are there too.
As I said, my first training group for new altar servers was 5 girls and 5 boys out of 11 who went to First Holy Communion. The one girl who did not become an altar server moved away shortly after Easter.
Out of those 10 kids I lost 2 boys to soccer because their parents didn’t think it important enough.
Among the older altar servers however it’s predominantly boys, because the girls usually leave at around 13/14.
The last parish I was at had a group of 4 experienced servers and I was the only girl. Then there were a few who were close to going to Confirmation and the little ones…

 

[white_sheep]

can you cite some documents that say ID is no longer binding?

Girls can be lectors, commentators, choir members…but please, they should not be taking up all the ministries in the Mass, making the priest as the sole male in the sanctuary.

Are girl altar servers in response to a feminist nun who told the Pope in his visit to US in the 90’s to open all ministries of the Church, including priesthood? (I just watched this on a DVD about the pope, hope someone would post details about that feminist).

Sorry to call you out as you aren’t the first to have written it but I can’t finish this thread. Girls cannot be lectors. They can read readings. It is not the same thing. Being a lector is one of the official ministries in the Church and cannot be entered into by a female. Only an adult male may be a lector.

 

[Janet1983]

Sorry to call you out as you aren’t the first to have written it but I can’t finish this thread. Girls cannot be lectors. They can read readings. It is not the same thing. Being a lector is one of the official ministries in the Church and cannot be entered into by a female. Only an adult male may be a lector.

Funny that I was called a lector (“Lektor”) and was part of the schedule for lectors. I was assigned to read a Biblical text other than the Gospel and I did read the intercession.
At the same time I was an altar server. In both functions I wore a pleated Roman-style surplice with lace inserts (due to me being rather tall and the plainly hemmed ones being smaller or used by other tall altar servers - the 3 boys who came after me in age). The German language however does not make a difference between a surplice and a rochet. I do not know the English tern for what I wore under it as Wikipedia just directs to “robe” when I change languages from German to English. In German it is called “Talar”. It is not the same as a cassock. A cassock is more form fitting and is usually not worn by altar servers, sacristans and cantors (though there are exceptions).

 

[PrudenceD]

I have sat here and read through all 10 pages of posts…thank you for all the interesting points that have been presented.

My 17yo has been an altar server for ten years. He is the ‘pride and joy’ of our parish (and ‘no’, I’m not just saying that)…to the point of our senior deacon has been laid up for the past several months by hip, knee and back operations succinctly. He phoned my 17yo and asked him to oversee the training of new altar servers.

The 1st thing my 17yo did was dress ‘occasionally’ (his own term from childhood when we would tell him that it was a ‘special occasion’ and he had to dress properly) and instruct the new recruits that ‘this is the proper attire for serving God’. When the girls asked what they should wear he replied, ‘nothing revealing or sloppy’. Since our parish does not currently use cassocks (or the like), it is a challenge to be sure that the altar servers are properly dressed for church-both boys AND girls.

But I digress a bit…and I pose a question; “What about the family that is active in their parish and ONLY has girls? Are they and their offspring to be denied the opportunity to serve mass, solely because genetics did NOT provide a male child?”

While I can completely understand and appreciate the canon and beyond, I still believe that God is much more accepting than his followers…and I thank HIM for that!!

PEACE

 

[CDNowak]

But I digress a bit…and I pose a question; “What about the family that is active in their parish and ONLY has girls? Are they and their offspring to be denied the opportunity to serve mass, solely because genetics did NOT provide a male child?”

Very good question, and one that those who would like to roll back the change must answer.

I know that one well-known EF parish in NJ has a society for girls (Blessed Imelda Society). What exactly that Society does, I am not sure, but the idea is a start nonetheless.

Certainly I would argue that they could be the Altar and Rosary Society, they could usher, they could greet, they can be in the choir. It would not be wrong to have the greeters and ushers be reserved only for the girls.

 

[wisdomseeker]

ewtn.com/library/Liturgy/zlitur19.htm has some interesting notes on the topic.

this is one more confusing document. it says to let girls serve at the altar. then it says it is up to the bishop. then it says that priests dont have to do it. then it says that the Church should follow the Tradition of only boys. which is it?

i dont even know why in the world the Church even gave the idea of women serving at the Altar. we see what is happening now, dont we? women is taking over the Sanctuary. at least in my Parish, only women in the Sanctuary. man remain in the pews do not speak in the Church.

 

[CDNowak]

this is one more confusing document. it says to let girls serve at the altar. then it says it is up to the bishop. then it says that priests dont have to do it. then it says that the Church should follow the Tradition of only boys. which is it?

Female altar servers are permitted where the Bishop allows it (in the US, everywhere outside of Lincoln, NE) AND where the Pastor allows it (many parishes in certain dioceses do not), AND when the priest saying the Mass does not object (very few priests are willing to object where it is already allowed).

However, the Church does encourage the formation of the corps of altar boys to encourage young men to consider a call to the priesthood.

 

[Javl]

this is one more confusing document. it says to let girls serve at the altar. then it says it is up to the bishop. then it says that priests dont have to do it. then it says that the Church should follow the Tradition of only boys. which is it?

i dont even know why in the world the Church even gave the idea of women serving at the Altar. we see what is happening now, dont we? women is taking over the Sanctuary. at least in my Parish, only women in the Sanctuary. man remain in the pews do not speak in the Church.

If it’s in the canon, then it is law. If it is not in the canon, then it’s whatever the Bishop decides. FYI: the canon is decided by the Magisterium ( Pope and College of Bishops, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit ).

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem
Shalom haMeshiach

 

[CDNowak]

If it’s in the canon, then it is law. If it is not in the canon, then it’s whatever the Bishop decides. FYI: the canon is decided by the Magisterium ( Pope and College of Bishops, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit ).

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem
Shalom haMeshiach

That is a gross over simplification. Liturgical law is not part of canon law, but still is binding. The binding documents in the case of ministry at the altar are the Roman Missal, the GIRM, Redemptionis Sacramentum, Ministeriam Quaedam, and the letters in 1994 (allowing altar girls) and 2001 limiting the power of the conference and the Bishop(Notitiae, 421-422 Vol 37 (2001) Num. 8-9, pp 397-399).

Canon law, likewise largely guides discipline, not doctrine, and as such is changeable.

 

[SpiritusSanctus]

I don’t see anything wrong with girl alter servers. They want to help the priests out! How can that be bad? I’m happy there are girl alter servers! They show their faith and how much love they have for God through their service.

But it isn’t right. Girls cannot be priests or altar severs. That’s not the way it was prior to Vatican II. If they want to show how much love they have for God they can become nuns. In fact, a girl can show great love for God even without joining a convent. Only boys/men can be altar severs or priests.

 

[SpiritusSanctus]

At my old parish the priest had at least 30 altar boy servers at each mass I attended. He was a great priest and preached the Gospel. He spoke of sin which most priests don’t today.

When he got ill and had to retire, the new priest made sure that there were girls serving and also started what I would call a protestant tradition of before Mass asking all new comers to stand up and be recognized and then we could all clap.

He also went around the church on Easter and had different people sing parts of songs in their own language right in the middle of Mass.

That was the last time I ever went to the parish again. Sorry but if I want that type of service I could attend a protestant church.

My parish is traditional, no girls serving, communion rail, no shaking hands or holding hands etc. Good traditional music. Everyone is reverant in church. No talking, no distractions. People pray before Mass. Great homilies are given, the teachings of the faith are taught and people come from miles around to attend.

During Lent we had Fr. Bill Casey, a Mercy Father for our Lenten Mission, from what I understand the Cardinal had said no Mercy Fathers allowed.

One Mass is the TLM, but the others are OF and done with great reverence.

But we have hope in our diocese as our new Archbishop will be Gomez and from other posters I have heard that he is a very orthodox Bishop.

Living where I do it is probably very different than other states. Our Cardinal allowed liturgical dancing and other innovations. He is well know by the media and has brought very negative feelings towards the Church over the past years and cost the Church much money due to his coverning up the abuse.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

Must have been a “modernist” priest. Good move by leaving. If it were me, I would have sprinted out of there.

 

[michaeldaniels]

What about accepting who you are and how God made you and that we are all individuals and each sex was created for a specific purpose…furthermore, don’t be prideful and force your way into something that you do not belong and feel that God doesn’t love you because a particular duty is not open to you.

But I digress a bit…and I pose a question; “What about the family that is active in their parish and ONLY has girls? Are they and their offspring to be denied the opportunity to serve mass, solely because genetics did NOT provide a male child?”

While I can completely understand and appreciate the canon and beyond, I still believe that God is much more accepting than his followers…and I thank HIM for that!!

PEACE

 

[CDNowak]

What about accepting who you are and how God made you and that we are all individuals and each sex was created for a specific purpose…furthermore, don’t be prideful and force your way into something that you do not belong and feel that God doesn’t love you because a particular duty is not open to you.

At the same time, the girls (and their families) who have been raised not knowing that there ever was a deeper significance to serving at the altar will be at risk of losing their faith without alternatives means to serve. As I said in my answer, this is a question that must be answered before a parish, let alone a diocese can rescind the permission already granted.

 

[michaeldaniels]

I’m sorry, but in my opinion, it is never prudent to continue a bad practice or accept it, out of fear of alienating people…because by continuing a bad practice or supporting whether advertantly or inadvertantly, you run the risk of alienating actual practicing Catholics who know and understand the faith…not those marginal ones that go to a clown mass or a life teen mass, etc. and think that is 100% purely orthodox Catholicism…don’t know about you, but I would rather retain the ladies wearing mantillas, saying countless rosaries, and nuns who actually wear their habits, etc. as opposed to Catholics who are only Catholic in name and who don’t take the time to learn enough about their faith to know what they are doing is wrong. No my friend…indifference is not the answer…solid catechesis is the answer. They won’t lose their faith…they will gain a deeper understanding and knowledge of their faith…and appreciate their distinct roles more.

At the same time, the girls (and their families) who have been raised not knowing that there ever was a deeper significance to serving at the altar will be at risk of losing their faith without alternatives means to serve. As I said in my answer, this is a question that must be answered before a parish, let alone a diocese can rescind the permission already granted.

 

[PrudenceD]

What about accepting who you are and how God made you and that we are all individuals and each sex was created for a specific purpose…furthermore, don’t be prideful and force your way into something that you do not belong and feel that God doesn’t love you because a particular duty is not open to you.

I accept who I am…I am a child of God…and as such, God determines my worth, not man. I have always felt his presence and I know that when I accept or decline a position in the church it is with the guidance of the Holy Spirit-not the man-made laws that seek to regulate based solely on my gender.

Its not a question of pride, its a question of faith.

PEACE

 

[Art321]

But it isn’t right. Girls cannot be priests or altar severs. That’s not the way it was prior to Vatican II. If they want to show how much love they have for God they can become nuns. In fact, a girl can show great love for God even without joining a convent. Only boys/men can be altar severs or priests.

Just my opinion! If it is God’s will for only guys to be alter servers, it will be done.

 

[michaeldaniels]

Wow…“guidance of the Holy Spirit”…your opinion and words sound very, very protestant to me…You don’t need the Church or the Magisterium, because you are guided by The Holy Spirit…All male priesthood, that must bother you too? Does it not?

I accept who I am…I am a child of God…and as such, God determines my worth, not man. I have always felt his presence and I know that when I accept or decline a position in the church it is with the guidance of the Holy Spirit-not the man-made laws that seek to regulate based solely on my gender.

Its not a question of pride, its a question of faith.

PEACE

 

[CDNowak]

I’m sorry, but in my opinion, it is never prudent to continue a bad practice or accept it, out of fear of alienating people…because by continuing a bad practice or supporting whether advertantly or inadvertantly, you run the risk of alienating actual practicing Catholics who know and understand the faith…not those marginal ones that go to a clown mass or a life teen mass, etc. and think that is 100% purely orthodox Catholicism…don’t know about you, but I would rather retain the ladies wearing mantillas, saying countless rosaries, and nuns who actually wear their habits, etc. as opposed to Catholics who are only Catholic in name and who don’t take the time to learn enough about their faith to know what they are doing is wrong. No my friend…indifference is not the answer…solid catechesis is the answer. They won’t lose their faith…they will gain a deeper understanding and knowledge of their faith…and appreciate their distinct roles more.

If it were my decision, the practice of girls serving at the altar would be ended as soon as possible. (Perhaps with the new translation ) However, we cannot forsake those who have (by-and-large through no fault of their own) been formed more by the currents of the secular world than by the Church. As I said, the question of how can these girls serve in a quasi-liturgical role is one that can be explored. I have offered suggestions: Greeters/ushers (if we must have them), the choir, Altar & Rosary Society, and there are less formal roles I can think of as well…

Solid catechesis is indeed the answer, but that take time, and does not always take root. In the meantime, yes many families would leave their parish and perhaps the Church of their daughter were not allowed some route of service. It is a sad fact, but I have seen people leave the Church over much less, sadly. The development of distinct roles (which is precisely what I have advocated) is the via media that would help stem the tide.

Since the topic has shifted in this direction I might as well also state that I am not a fan of gradualism on this issue. If a parish were to decide to only have altar boys, then they should draw up a program for both the boys and for the girls (in some other means of service) and put them into effect as a whole.

 

[PrudenceD]

Wow…“guidance of the Holy Spirit”…your opinion and words sound very, very protestant to me…You don’t need the Church or the Magisterium, because you are guided by The Holy Spirit…All male priesthood, that must bother you too? Does it not?

Sorry to disappoint, but I am devoutly Irish Roman Catholic-with the grace of ‘forward thinking’. A trait that has been handed down to me by all the priests I’ve been blessed enough to seek guidance from. So again, ‘No’ it does not bother me-but I suspect you don’t really want to know how I feel as your post drips with a hint of sarcasm.

As to my guidance, when the Archbishop confirmed me and said ‘Be sealed with the gift of the Holy Spirit’, well, I suppose I took that to mean that my Catholic faith would guide me in Wisdom, Understanding, Counsel, Fortitude, Knowledge, Piety & Fear of the Lord as one of the ‘soldiers of Christ’. After all, its clearly stated in CCC:

1299 In the Roman Rite the bishop extends his hands over the whole group of the confirmands. Since the time of the apostles this gesture has signified the gift of the Spirit. The bishop invokes the outpouring of the Spirit in these words:

All-powerful God, Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
by water and the Holy Spirit
you freed your sons and daughters from sin
and gave them new life.
Send your Holy Spirit upon them
to be their helper and guide.
Give them the spirit of wisdom and understanding,
the spirit of right judgment and courage,
the spirit of knowledge and reverence.
Fill them with the spirit of wonder and awe in your presence.
We ask this through Christ our Lord.113

As for my need…faith is my need-faith in God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Where I stand in church does not take away from that.

PEACE