Girl Altar Servers

[PrudenceD]

…
If a parish were to decide to only have altar boys, then they should draw up a program for both the boys and for the girls (in some other means of service) and put them into effect as a whole.

I can completely agree with this sentiment-do or do not, there is no try…

PEACE

 

[white_sheep]

Funny that I was called a lector (“Lektor”) and was part of the schedule for lectors. I was assigned to read a Biblical text other than the Gospel and I did read the intercession.
At the same time I was an altar server. In both functions I wore a pleated Roman-style surplice with lace inserts (due to me being rather tall and the plainly hemmed ones being smaller or used by other tall altar servers - the 3 boys who came after me in age). The German language however does not make a difference between a surplice and a rochet. I do not know the English tern for what I wore under it as Wikipedia just directs to “robe” when I change languages from German to English. In German it is called “Talar”. It is not the same as a cassock. A cassock is more form fitting and is usually not worn by altar servers, sacristans and cantors (though there are exceptions).

It isn’t funny. It is incorrect. Lectors are one of the minor orders in the Church.

 

[michaeldaniels]

Forward thinking=liberalism=modernism=abomination…juist my 2 cents. I thik St. Pius X would agree with me…but perhaps you don’t think the saint knew what he was talking about

Sorry to disappoint, but I am devoutly Irish Roman Catholic-with the grace of ‘forward thinking’. A trait that has been handed down to me by all the priests I’ve been blessed enough to seek guidance from. So again, ‘No’ it does not bother me-but I suspect you don’t really want to know how I feel as your post drips with a hint of sarcasm.

As to my guidance, when the Archbishop confirmed me and said ‘Be sealed with the gift of the Holy Spirit’, well, I suppose I took that to mean that my Catholic faith would guide me in Wisdom, Understanding, Counsel, Fortitude, Knowledge, Piety & Fear of the Lord as one of the ‘soldiers of Christ’. After all, its clearly stated in CCC:

As for my need…faith is my need-faith in God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Where I stand in church does not take away from that.

PEACE

 

[PrudenceD]

And all the more, I will pray for you…

PEACE

 

[michaeldaniels]

Thank you…and I will also pray for you too…we can all use prayers!!!

 

[CDNowak]

It isn’t funny. It is incorrect. Lectors are one of the minor orders in the Church.

While the minor orders have been suppressed (again Ministerium Quaedam) they are instituted ministers the must be instituted by the Bishop after a period of formation, something that is rarely done outside of men in formation,

 

[stevusmagnus]

papalencyclicals.net/Ben14/b14allat.htm

Pope Benedict XIV: Allatae Sunt, 1755

“Women Assisting at Mass Pope Gelasius in his ninth letter (chap. 26) to the bishops of Lucania condemned the evil practice which had been introduced of women serving the priest at the celebration of Mass. Since this abuse had spread to the Greeks, Innocent IV strictly forbade it in his letter to the bishop of Tusculum: “Women should not dare to serve at the altar; they should be altogether refused this ministry.” We too have forbidden this practice in the same words in Our oft-repeated constitution Etsi Pastoralis, sect. 6, no. 21.”

 

[Janet1983]

It isn’t funny. It is incorrect. Lectors are one of the minor orders in the Church.

Well I guess then the problem is either the translation or the German practice. We had men and women serve as lectors. There might be a distinction in English, calling them readers, but in German the term is always the same… “Lektor”, derived from the Latin and in English that derivation is done with a “c”.

Ok… I think I found the glitch. The form of the lector as you know it is hardly ever used in Germany and regular readers are being called lector. The form you know is only used in connection with the training for deacons (and thereby future priests).

 

[Lamentabili]

The best argument for having male altar servers that I’ve heard came from Fr. McLucas. He said that the Traditional understanding of altar boys is that they are extensions of the hands of the priest who is the alter Christus. As such, it would not be fitting that they be female or feminine “hands”, but that they be masculine.

In addition the practice of men serving at the altar is immemorial custom and has been noted throughout history to lead to vocations to the priesthood. And in the present age we are in sore need of priests.

 

[Lamafacaja]

No, no altar serving for my girls. No Eucharistic ministers and no lectors. But we assist at the TLM so it’s not really an option anyway, thank God.

And also I insist they wear modest clothing to church and head coverings. This is what’s right.

 

[Javl]

It should be noted that the Magisterium is THE final authority on the matter of altar girls and women serving the mass.

The magisterium is the Pope and the college of Bishops acting in unison under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom haMeshisch

 

[CDNowak]

Well I guess then the problem is either the translation or the German practice. We had men and women serve as lectors. There might be a distinction in English, calling them readers, but in German the term is always the same… “Lektor”, derived from the Latin and in English that derivation is done with a “c”.

Ok… I think I found the glitch. The form of the lector as you know it is hardly ever used in Germany and regular readers are being called lector.** The form you know is only used in connection with the training for deacons (and thereby future priests).**

That “form” is that of the instituted lector, specifically not reserved to men in formation. Ministeria Quaedam unequivocally defines the instituted ministry. The term being the same is problematic (that is why this is a discussion about altar servers and not acolytes).

The fact that the instituted ministry is not “preserved in the whole Latin Church”, as Pope Paul VI wrote is a grave matter, and should shape our understanding of the (over-)use of the substitutes.

 

[Brendan]

Ok… I think I found the glitch. The form of the lector as you know it is hardly ever used in Germany and regular readers are being called lector. The form you know is only used in connection with the training for deacons (and thereby future priests).

It a minor of of the Church. You are correct that it is rarely used in the Western Church, but it still remains a Clerical position in the Eastern Catholic Churchs, as well as among the traditional orders ( such as the FSSP).

It is a Clerical title and should only be used as such. If it is common use to describe a lay Reader, then that is a mistake and should be corrected.

 

[dominicandinah]

It should be noted that the Magisterium is THE final authority on the matter of altar girls and women serving the mass.

The magisterium is the Pope and the college of Bishops acting in unison under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom haMeshisch

Amen to that! But you must keep in mind, we have people on here who think they are the final authority and that in their minds, Vatican ll never happened, or is to be ignored in regards of what came forth from it!

 

[franklinf]

Amen to that! But you must keep in mind, we have people on here who think they are the final authority and that in their minds, Vatican ll never happened, or is to be ignored in regards of what came forth from it!

2+2 =/= 5

Earlier popes and hundreds of years of tradition have told us girls are not to be altar servers. Yet now they are. We as Catholics must go with tradition.

 

[michaeldaniels]

The lack of knowledge that you and many other Catholics have just baffles me. You, along with a great many just like you, really need to go back read, study, pray, etc., because you are arguing a point with fallacious and ridiculous garbage.

1. Vatican II has nothing to do with the modern crisis in The Church…Vatican II is the scapegoat.
2. Vatican II did not allow, mandate, or do anything else in regards to females being altar servers…IT WAS AN ABUSE committed on wide scale and instead of The Vatican putting their foot down and eradicating this problem, they ignored it and then eventually just allowed it. They were indifferent and that is just wrong…kind of like the indifference to the numerous sex abuse cases…You see, those in positions of power in the Church have been and will continue to be wrong about certain things…they are only human afterall
3. While talking about Vatican II…please cite the words that allow women to serve on the Altar, the necessity of removing the High Altar and replacing it with a table, the removal of communion rails, CITH, removal of statues and icons, the playing of abominable music while removing Latin Hyms and Gregorian Chant, the complete absence of Latin from the liturgy, even though it strongly supported a great deal of Latin to remain, etc…I could go on and on.
4. You know the real problem is not with Traditionalists thinking we are the magisterium…we just fail to understand how The Church was ransacked by a bunch of modernists without any cause and real ability…“The Spirit of Vatican II”…If I hear that one more time as an excuse as to why they are destroying The Church, by God I think the Church Militant side in me will come out. I am tired of it. No, we are not people who ignore the teachings of The Church…we want to restore them and maintain them…unlike those rogue Bishops and priests, with the support of uninformed and poorly catchized laypeople…which you may or may not fall into that category, but they are certainly out there…

Now I hear “JP II” believed this or did that or supported this…thats fine…I love that man dearly…He became Pope the year I was born and was my Holy Father for the majority of my life…but the man was still a man capable of mistakes…which everybody is…but then we also have St. Pius X…a canonized Saint…not someone going through the process…an actual Saint, we know for a fact he is in Heaven right now…we have St. Pius X’s many teachings and encyclicals condemning all of the abominable activities going on in THe Church today…but you all seem to have a short memory and choose to ignore what he had to say.

Amen to that! But you must keep in mind, we have people on here who think they are the final authority and that in their minds, Vatican ll never happened, or is to be ignored in regards of what came forth from it!

 

[wisdomseeker]

when I first saw girl altar servers, I was very surprised. during the entrance procession, there are 4 girl altar servers, and the lone male server got the job of holding the incense boat. I was very surprised, but still i don’t know how to respond. Instinct tells me that there’s something wrong there.

Concerning the Venerable John Paul, the Great’s Inaestimabile Donum, here’s the quote:

***18. There are, of course, various roles that women can perform in the liturgical assembly: these include reading the Word of God and proclaiming the intentions of the Prayer of the Faithful. Women are not, however, permitted to act as altar servers.

---

see it for yourself:papalencyclicals.net/JP02/JP2inaest.htm

Gracias to the one who pointed this letter to us.

PS: ID gave a footnote regarding the female altar servers:
27. Cf. Sacred Congregation for Divine Worship, Instruction Liturgicae instaurationes, no. 7.

I researched about it and here’s what I found:
7. In conformity with norms traditional in the Church, women (single, married, religious), whether in churches, homes, convents, schools, or institutions for women, are barred from serving the priest at the altar.

According to the norms established for these matters, however, women are allowed to:

a. proclaim the readings, except the gospel. They are to make sure that, with the help of modern sound equipment, they can be comfortably heard by all. The conferences of bishops are to give specific directions on the place best suited for women to read the word of God in the liturgical assembly.

b. announce the intentions in the general intercessions;

c. lead the liturgical assembly in singing and play the organ or other instruments;

d. read the commentary assisting the people toward a better understanding of the rite;

e. attend to other functions, customarily filled by women in other settings, as a service to the congregation, for example, ushering, organizing processions, taking up the collection.[29]

the bad thing about give permission to something that was not there in the past, it is that there is no stoping now in what women can do in the Church. we see priests washing women’s feet. no one cant stop this. in my parish, women is the one distributing the Challices and the bread to the Eucharist ministers while the priests sit down. the women is the one consuming the remaing Wine after it is all done. it is the women who is taking the remain Host to the Tabernacle. who is going to tell the priest this is wrong? no one. since it is the priest who have the authority to decide what to do in his Parish.

 

[wisdomseeker]

It should be noted that the Magisterium is THE final authority on the matter of altar girls and women serving the mass.

The magisterium is the Pope and the college of Bishops acting in unison under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom haMeshisch

yes, but the Magisterium has not been doing a very good job lately and that is why we are in such a mess.

 

[Angel_Bradford]

Just out of curiousity…has there been a reliable study done that shows that because of female altar servers, we have a decline in vocations? For centuries, the priest’s only job was the Sacraments. Even today, his most important task is the Mass, but there are so many more things that he had to deal with that are literally outside the Church building. Being an altar server has nothing to do with what a priest does during the other 22 hours of his day that he is not at Mass. Could the added responsibilites of a priest be the reason young men are choosing another path? Are we to assume that being an altar serving is going to help when a priest is called to an emergency at the hospital in the middle of the night? Or to be a marriage counselor? Seriously, am I the only one that is tired of hearing that if we only had “altar boys” we’d have more priests?

No, you’re not the only one; I’m tired of it as well. I like to know how they explain the shortage of priests that began in Europe in the 1930s? You certianly can’t blame that on girl altar servers.

 

[white_sheep]

Well I guess then the problem is either the translation or the German practice. We had men and women serve as lectors. There might be a distinction in English, calling them readers, but in German the term is always the same… “Lektor”, derived from the Latin and in English that derivation is done with a “c”.

Ok… I think I found the glitch. The form of the lector as you know it is hardly ever used in Germany and regular readers are being called lector. The form you know is only used in connection with the training for deacons (and thereby future priests).

I will try not to repeat what the last several posters have written too much. Lectors are an instituted ministry within the Church open to males only. However, in the absence of a lector, or for other reasons, a regular layperson may be used to carry out the functions normally reserved to the lector. This does not make them a lector, even though it is a very common error to refer to them as such. You and I should not perpetuate the error.