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Given the principles of evolution, natural selection, survival of the fittest, etc, do you think belief in the supernatural will die out or become a m
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grannymh
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Years back, it may have been possible to infer ultimate purpose and meaning from observance of human behavior, including ancient people’s legends.
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Achilles6129
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The one by the philosopher who believes in evolution.
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Achilles6129
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What’s your point?
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Eric_Hyom
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You saw a problem with Adam and Eve, one couple cannot start a sustainable population, (without God)
But how did nature overcome this problem without help from God? On day one, of a given year, there was zero homo habilis. Did that increase to 10 - 20 or 50 in the next generation?
That would break a couple of fundamental laws in the evolutionary theory. 50 people do not constitute a sustainable population, and secondly, natural selection is a subtle process over hundreds of thousands of years. This would not be a unique problem limited to homo habilis, there are a few more species roaming the earth today.
God did not leave any gaps when he created the universe and life, but we have huge gaps in our knowledge of creation.
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grannymh
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As my Mother would say. There is more than one way to skin a cat.
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rossum
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There is direct scientific evidence for hallucinations and for fictional stories, including fictional stories with a moral. I used the example of Aesop’s Fables. Lots of talking animals there, but nobody takes them seriously as a piece of scientific observation. The Bible is not a science textbook.
We have a biased history book, with the deeds of the writer’s side exaggerated and the deeds of the other side minimised. Such writing was very common in ancient times and is still too common today.
That is pretty much what I believe about the Bible text. The Buddhist scriptures are similar; they are not as the traditional description of their composition would have them. Though in that case the origin is clouded by hundreds of years of oral, not written, transmission, which has changed the form of the text for the earliest parts.
rossum
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grannymh
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Natural selection is a description applied to the natural world.
The word supernatural applies to the Greek and Roman gods and if I remember correctly, there was some kind of survival of the fittest.
Considering the above, do humans belong to the natural world or the supernatural world or both?
If one claims that the supernatural will die out, it should be common sense to check if we are going to die out. Is the minority worldview that of Zeus?
Obviously, it is more fun to debate evolution.
This avoids serious thinking about what in the world is “the supernatural”?
The word supernatural applies to the Greek and Roman gods and if I remember correctly, there was some kind of survival of the fittest.
Considering the above, do humans belong to the natural world or the supernatural world or both?
If one claims that the supernatural will die out, it should be common sense to check if we are going to die out. Is the minority worldview that of Zeus?
Obviously, it is more fun to debate evolution.
This avoids serious thinking about what in the world is “the supernatural”?
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grannymh
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Here are two additional questions which need consideration by thinking individuals.
Is evolution the only possibility on the table?
Can an expert in the science of agriculture provide for a large family?
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Each human person is worthy of profound respect.
Is evolution the only possibility on the table?
Can an expert in the science of agriculture provide for a large family?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Each human person is worthy of profound respect.
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Eric_Hyom
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Yes
Fables are fiction,
Agreed, if it says that a donkey talked in the Bible, it does not explain how the donkey was able to talk. If God can create the universe, he can give a donkey a sound system, why would that be difficult for God?
You might believe that about the Bible, but there are a billion Christians who believe it to be the inspired word of God. If God has the power to create the heavens and the Earth, he has the power to have a book written his way. The New Testament may well have been written centuries after Jesus, by unknown authors, but God is still in control. If an all powerful emperor wanted to corrupt the Bible, he would fail, because he would have to fight against God.
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grannymh
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I have not read the Old Testament so why is a donkey more important than the human species? Why?
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grannymh
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Apparently Catholics don’t care.
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grannymh
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Apparently, Catholics don’t care.Natural selection is a description applied to the natural world.
The word supernatural applies to the Greek and Roman gods and if I remember correctly, there was some kind of survival of the fittest.
Considering the above, do humans belong to the natural world or the supernatural world or both?
If one claims that the supernatural will die out, it should be common sense to check if we are going to die out. Is the minority worldview that of Zeus?
Obviously, it is more fun to debate evolution.
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inocente
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Tonyism.
I never said there was exclusively, and it’s easy to link behavior to our physicality. “Hath not a Jew hands, organs, dimensions, senses, affections, passions? Fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons, subject to the same diseases, healed by the same means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and summer as a Christian is? If you prick us, do we not bleed? If you tickle us, do we not laugh?”
But now you mention it, it’s harder to find evidence for behavior that unambiguously cannot be linked to physicality (either via stimulus, evolution, learning, etc.).
You might be accused of lacking spirituality - an eagle isn’t a robot, it’s a poem.
Edwestism. Have you made biologists aware of your rules about what they should not put in their books?
Zombies, ghosts, demons, the astral plane, Harry Potter’s wand (to coin a phrase). The supernatural is populated with all manner of things.The word supernatural applies to the Greek and Roman gods and if I remember correctly, there was some kind of survival of the fittest.
Considering the above, do humans belong to the natural world or the supernatural world or both?
If one claims that the supernatural will die out, it should be common sense to check if we are going to die out. Is the minority worldview that of Zeus?
Obviously, it is more fun to debate evolution.
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grannymh
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That is so correct – be sure to include Hedwig.
We step into the supernatural when the man in the moon smiles at us. Then we wonder what is behind that moon. We wonder why we even think about the supernatural when an ordinary man can walk on the moon. Seriously, when that happened, I went outside and looked up.
The populations of the supernatural seemed beyond us until one day a person who called himself a shaman showed up. With an inviting smile, he shared his secret. He acted as a medium between us and the invisible spirit world. (my old dictionary) The rest is history.
If we can avoid Google, we eventually find that we do have the capability to explore and learn about the supernatural world (Genesis 1: 27) The principles of evolution, being in the material world, do not have the capability to modify the supernatural world. Instinctively, we know that the supernatural world is supreme. No matter how we disagree with the supernatural, the next day or night, there is a child or a child like human looking up and smiling. The supernatural world, regardless of what we include, including the being under our bed or in our closet, exists forever.
Hopefully, all of us will conclude that the ever present supernatural world (see Inocente’s partial list above) is possible because a supreme supernatural being aka Immortal God is also there.
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Eric_Hyom
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If you go to mass every day for the three year cycle, you will hear about 14 % of the Old Testament, and about 72 % of the New. See Catholic Lectionary statistics…
catholic-resources.org/Lectionary/Statistics.htm
This is the story of the talking donkey, it is worth reading Numbers 21, 22 and 23 for context.
Numbers 22 - 26:31
26 Then the angel of the Lord moved on ahead and stood in a narrow place where there was no room to turn, either to the right or to the left. 27 When the donkey saw the angel of the Lord, it lay down under Balaam, and he was angry and beat it with his staff. 28 Then the Lord opened the donkey’s mouth, and it said to Balaam, “What have I done to you to make you beat me these three times?”
29 Balaam answered the donkey, “You have made a fool of me! If only I had a sword in my hand, I would kill you right now.”
30 The donkey said to Balaam, “Am I not your own donkey, which you have always ridden, to this day? Have I been in the habit of doing this to you?”
“No,” he said.
31 Then the Lord opened Balaam’s eyes, and he saw the angel of the Lord standing in the road with his sword drawn. So he bowed low and fell facedown
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grannymh
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Thank you.
When I was a curious child, I did my best to listen intently to the readings from the Old Testament during the Sunday Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. But my memory did not retain much besides the stories I had to learn in grade school. Also, it seemed to me that the stories at Mass always stopped in an interesting part.
The exception was the stories in the first three sacred chapters of Genesis. In grade school, we learned the basic Catholic Truths which flow from those first three fascinating chapters of Genesis. We went from Original Sin straight to the Incarnation. That is probably why I recognize modern Arianism.
When I learned on CAF that Adam and Eve did not exist, being stubborn, I started learning the truths from the real words in Scripture. I am still learning.
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Aloysium
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The reference to textbooks I would take as being shorthand for what we teach in public schools and undergraduate programs.
They generally do in fact contain a superficial look at the philosophy of science, describing its methods and grounding in empiricism.
This is the only exposure that some students have to the study of knowledge and may account for a commonly observed attitude of science vs imaginary stuff.
Biological textbooks summarize commonly accepted understandings of the material aspect of life, that which is observable by the senses and measurable.
Nowhere will one read about an animal soul, that which we know when we interact with them.
There may possibly be something about instinctual behaviour, often in relation to brain, physiology and anatomy; that’s pretty much it.
It is still considered biology, the study of living organisms even though the focus is on what they do, and what they are as themselves, is reduced to the interactions of their material components.
This intellectual vivisection is not without its repercussions, the most egregious being the dehumanization of the unborn.
The methods we use affect our resultant understanding. In treating the myriad forms of life, as if they were not living beings, reduces us to the same dust.
And, we treat ourselves and one another accordingly.
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edwest2
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Correct. We are only biological machines, some less capable than others. We live, we die. The end.
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tonyrey
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The secular society in all its futile, ill-fated glory with countless lives terminated prematurely
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