Given the principles of evolution, natural selection, survival of the fittest, etc, do you think belief in the supernatural will die out or become a m

[inocente]

I genuinely don’t see what you’re trying to say here.

First you act as though Baptists are somehow more unified on doctrine than you think Catholics are, but then you say that for every Baptist there are two opinions…

Many have told me, quite possibly including your good self, that I should become a Catholic to avoid yon chaos of Protestanism.

Oops.

PS been out tonight with an amigo policeman. Barcelona in our thoughts and prayers.

 

[grannymh]

PS been out tonight with an amigo policeman. Barcelona in our thoughts and prayers.

Please be extra careful. That is an order from your granny.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/misconceptions_teacherfaq.php#a4

Taken from your link…

we can observe rapid evolution going on around us all the time. Over the past 50 years, we’ve observed squirrels evolve new breeding times in response to climate change,

Climate change is constantly happening, but can it be the catalyst for a population to split from its common ancestor?

and a host of microbes evolve resistance to new drugs we’ve developed.

Can chemical change be the catalyst for limbs and eyes to form in microbes?

If we go back four billion years to no life, then come forwards to a first life, changes need to happen. What changes in the environment would cause 1829 progressive mutations to form an eye over half a million years.

 

[lynnvinc]

As you’re in the social sciences, you may not have been introduced to concepts like statistical significance and experimental repeatably.

Suffice to say that one student doing a single such experiment isn’t much different to flipping a coin. Sure enough, a quick google found the exact opposite result - (as I understand it, Cliff Richard is a British Christian balladeer).

I told the students it was a science fair project and the source was a newspaper – they are smart enough to know that is not necessarily topnotch science. I also got a good Big Foot story from a newspaper I used to used for my folklore class as an example of an urban legend – it even had the authenticating aspect of being reported by a sheriff driving on a rural road and at first thinking it was a bear. While many social scientists will insist these types of stories are totally untrue, I like to say, who knows???

I used to give those religious stories during discussion of religion, which is a very sensitive topic, just to let students know that there could be something to the spiritual dimension (who knows???), even tho as social scientists that is not within our purview of studies.

Long ago, some 30 or so years ago, I also used to tell students in my anthro classes they didn’t have to believe in evolution, but they had to learn it for the test. Then later I switched to insisting that evolution was real and proven, and that to say it wasn’t would be a lie, which, according to my religion, would be a sin.

 

[grannymh]

Long ago, some 30 or so years ago, I also used to tell students in my anthro classes they didn’t have to believe in evolution, but they had to learn it for the test. Then later I switched to insisting that evolution was real and proven, and that to say it wasn’t would be a lie, which, according to my religion, would be a sin.

It is important to understand that one of the basic doctrines of real and proven
evolution is that evolving from Homo species to Homo species to modern humans took place in large polygenesis source populations. A large random breeding evolving population is not the same as the Catholic doctrine that the human species was founded by a population of two, Adam and Eve. The Homo/Pan split is a speciation event and not the original human population of Adam and Eve.

Evolution Information link
evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/_0_0/evo_07

 

[tonyrey]

Taken from your link…

Climate change is constantly happening, but can it be the catalyst for a population to split from its common ancestor?

Can chemical change be the catalyst for limbs and eyes to form in microbes?

If we go back four billion years to no life, then come forwards to a first life, changes need to happen. What changes in the environment would cause 1829 progressive mutations to form an eye over half a million years.

A cute question The blind Goddess must certainly have had her work cut out if she were all on her ownsome lonesome - without anyone to keep her company. It’s not surprising her offspring would be in the precisely same plight if she really were a solitary spinster who appeared from nowhere and presumably would return whence she came… I have a hunch she isn’t so isolated as our friends think. It takes two to tango… and the ballroom has to be provided by a generous benefactor

 

[edwest2]

Taken from your link…

Climate change is constantly happening, but can it be the catalyst for a population to split from its common ancestor?

Can chemical change be the catalyst for limbs and eyes to form in microbes?

If we go back four billion years to no life, then come forwards to a first life, changes need to happen. What changes in the environment would cause 1829 progressive mutations to form an eye over half a million years.

Very good questions. Reading science journals, I see the words “may,” “likely” and similar. A certain number of assumptions are made and they can’t be replicated in the lab.

With Evolutionary Psychology, we have this:

“Evolutionary psychology is a theoretical approach to psychology that attempts to explain useful mental and psychological traits—such as memory, perception, or language—as adaptations, i.e., as the functional products of natural selection.”

If we are just biological products then our psychology has the same roots as our alleged biological development. And so we are reduced to nothing more than self-upgrading biological machines with self-upgrading minds that started for reasons unknown.

Ed

 

[inocente]

On the other hand, I better confess I did not get to your university page. I am in round 3 in my fight with the computer. However, if you will post it again…

trs.cua.edu/Science-for-Seminaries/biology-evolution.cfm

Please be extra careful. That is an order from your granny.

Thanks but I’m 500 miles away on a mountain. Even the Jehovah’s Witnesses took 12 years to spot the house. But find it they did.

 

[inocente]

I told the students it was a science fair project and the source was a newspaper – they are smart enough to know that is not necessarily topnotch science. I also got a good Big Foot story from a newspaper I used to used for my folklore class as an example of an urban legend – it even had the authenticating aspect of being reported by a sheriff driving on a rural road and at first thinking it was a bear. While many social scientists will insist these types of stories are totally untrue, I like to say, who knows???

I used to give those religious stories during discussion of religion, which is a very sensitive topic, just to let students know that there could be something to the spiritual dimension (who knows???), even tho as social scientists that is not within our purview of studies.

For a short while I looked in on the internet forums where there’s discussion of UFOs, bigfoots, conspiracy theories and so on. Hard to know which posters are earnest and which are making up tall tales to egg-on the earnest. Particularly when you see posts giving detailed specifications of secret anti-gravity hypersonic invisible space fighters with Boeing model numbers.

I guess the stories themselves, and the various genres, are less interesting than why some feel the need to fill their lives with them, while others don’t.

Long ago, some 30 or so years ago, I also used to tell students in my anthro classes they didn’t have to believe in evolution, but they had to learn it for the test. Then later I switched to insisting that evolution was real and proven, and that to say it wasn’t would be a lie, which, according to my religion, would be a sin.

I learned it aged 14 or 15 without fanfare in biology class, in much the same that motion, say, was taught in physics, as an essential foundation. I don’t remember it ever being discussed in religious classes, or outside school. The only time we got excited about biology was when we were told next week we would learn about sex. The lesson turned out to be about the male and female parts in flowers. We were bitterly disappointed. Our professor was the only one who found it funny.

 

[inocente]

I told the students it was a science fair project and the source was a newspaper – they are smart enough to know that is not necessarily topnotch science. I also got a good Big Foot story from a newspaper I used to used for my folklore class as an example of an urban legend – it even had the authenticating aspect of being reported by a sheriff driving on a rural road and at first thinking it was a bear. While many social scientists will insist these types of stories are totally untrue, I like to say, who knows???

I used to give those religious stories during discussion of religion, which is a very sensitive topic, just to let students know that there could be something to the spiritual dimension (who knows???), even tho as social scientists that is not within our purview of studies.

For a short while I looked in on the internet forums where there’s discussion of UFOs, bigfoots, conspiracy theories and so on. Hard to know which posters are earnest and which are making up tall tales to egg-on the earnest. Particularly when you see posts giving detailed specifications of secret anti-gravity hypersonic invisible space fighters with Boeing model numbers.

I guess the stories themselves, and the various genres, are less interesting than why some feel the need to fill their lives with them, while others don’t.

Long ago, some 30 or so years ago, I also used to tell students in my anthro classes they didn’t have to believe in evolution, but they had to learn it for the test. Then later I switched to insisting that evolution was real and proven, and that to say it wasn’t would be a lie, which, according to my religion, would be a sin.

I learned it aged 14 or 15 without fanfare in biology class, in much the same way that motion, say, was taught in physics, as an essential foundation. I don’t remember it ever being discussed in religious classes, or outside school. The only time we got excited about biology was when we were told next week we would learn about sex. The lesson turned out to be about the male and female parts in flowers. We were bitterly disappointed. Our professor was the only one who found it funny.

 

[edwest2]

For a short while I looked in on the internet forums where there’s discussion of UFOs, bigfoots, conspiracy theories and so on. Hard to know which posters are earnest and which are making up tall tales to egg-on the earnest. Particularly when you see posts giving detailed specifications of secret anti-gravity hypersonic invisible space fighters with Boeing model numbers.

I guess the stories themselves, and the various genres, are less interesting than why some feel the need to fill their lives with them, while others don’t.

I learned it aged 14 or 15 without fanfare in biology class, in much the same that motion, say, was taught in physics, as an essential foundation. I don’t remember it ever being discussed in religious classes, or outside school. The only time we got excited about biology was when we were told next week we would learn about sex. The lesson turned out to be about the male and female parts in flowers. We were bitterly disappointed. Our professor was the only one who found it funny.

I have studied what are wrongly called “conspiracy theories” for years. I say wrongly because I’ve seen too many instances where people dismiss things out of hand without any real research.

Different people have different interests but I can say with certainty that there is a lot of good information out there about known and very little known projects. The internet is sometimes a good starting place, but once one knows where to go to confirm the info presented, it becomes very easy to dismiss certain things. But that is not a one step process in most cases. Old government documents are being declassified all the time but who wants to deal with that much less keep up with it? Anyway, a lot of things were built and flown that remain classified while other things happened that are written by credible people who are/were involved in certain programs. I may yet see the the declassification of World War II documents that were held back without explanation.

Otherwise, there are very good books with checkable information but they have titles that are nonsensical, or use terminology that would go unrecognized by the average reader. And forget about finding thee books unless you’ve put in the time to do the research. Yeah, I’ve got “you spent money on that?” books and a few other non-book items. None of it secret.

Ed

 

[grannymh]

trs.cua.edu/Science-for-Seminaries/biology-evolution.cfm

I am familiar with the Catholic University of America. Thank you.

However, I have no clue how to navigate its link in order to find their exact teaching of the fundamentals of evolution theory. It is one of the exact fundamentals which is the basic clash with Catholicism.

I did spot a link to BioLogos.

The bottom line is that I have accomplished nothing on the link .
And I am accomplishing only a little here and there.
If only a few persons learn how to understand the first three chapters of Genesis in relation to Catholic doctrines – that is good.

 

[inocente]

I have studied what are wrongly called “conspiracy theories” for years. I say wrongly because I’ve seen too many instances where people dismiss things out of hand without any real research.

Different people have different interests but I can say with certainty that there is a lot of good information out there about known and very little known projects. The internet is sometimes a good starting place, but once one knows where to go to confirm the info presented, it becomes very easy to dismiss certain things. But that is not a one step process in most cases. Old government documents are being declassified all the time but who wants to deal with that much less keep up with it? Anyway, a lot of things were built and flown that remain classified while other things happened that are written by credible people who are/were involved in certain programs. I may yet see the the declassification of World War II documents that were held back without explanation.

Otherwise, there are very good books with checkable information but they have titles that are nonsensical, or use terminology that would go unrecognized by the average reader. And forget about finding thee books unless you’ve put in the time to do the research. Yeah, I’ve got “you spent money on that?” books and a few other non-book items. None of it secret.

I spent a while researching it and was always disappointed.

I started a thread in a UFO forum to say I’m new to this, please would people post the best researched UFO incidents so I could work through them. They agreed that one particular incident had the best evidence. I looked and there were fuzzy black and white photos of what appeared to be dinner plates thrown in the air, and low-res scans of sheriff reports which didn’t add any authenticity.

Then I looked at the 9/11 conspiracy theories and found unbridled cognitive bias. No skepticism was permitted, so even laughably silly ‘facts’ were accepted. It had a labyrinth complexity as nothing ever got discarded. As a result many ‘facts’ contradicted other ‘facts’.

There were lots more - secret military, new world order, paranormal, perpetual motion engines. I started out trying to be open-minded but decided to stop. Each of them one way or another cut itself off from reality and my intuition was that road can only end with cults and radicalization. Sorry but I decided it was too dangerously depressing for me to ever go back.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

Originally Posted by **Eric Hyom **
Taken from your link…

Climate change is constantly happening, but can it be the catalyst for a population to split from its common ancestor?

Can chemical change be the catalyst for limbs and eyes to form in microbes?

If we go back four billion years to no life, then come forwards to a first life, changes need to happen. What changes in the environment would cause 1829 progressive mutations to form an eye over half a million years.

A cute question )

But these are fairly basic questions that science should have been asking years ago. When we avoid these questions, then explanations for the 1829 relentless and progressive steps for the evolution of the eye, seem to take the micky.

I truthfully do not know how they can call this science.

 

[inocente]

I am familiar with the Catholic University of America. Thank you.

However, I have no clue how to navigate its link in order to find their exact teaching of the fundamentals of evolution theory. It is one of the exact fundamentals which is the basic clash with Catholicism.

I did spot a link to BioLogos.

The bottom line is that I have accomplished nothing on the link .
And I am accomplishing only a little here and there.
If only a few persons learn how to understand the first three chapters of Genesis in relation to Catholic doctrines – that is good.

I looked and you have to be a student or professor with a username and password before you can read detailed course syllabi.

But I spent half-hour finding these links for you:

biology.cua.edu/courses/current.cfm
The biology courses. Click the blue course identifiers for a synopsis of each course. Looks vanilla biology to me, same as is taught at any secular university.

trs.cua.edu/courses/courses.cfm
The theology courses. Again, where biology is mentioned as part of a course it seems to be taught as straight science.

trs.cua.edu/Science-for-Seminaries/journals-and-other-related-materials.cfm
This is linked from the page I cited in the earlier post. The University seems to have a close relationship with the AAAS, and this page mentions an AAAS project called Science For Seminarians.

scienceforseminaries.org/resources/science-the-wide-angle/
This is the Science For Seminarians website. The page may take a while to display. There are various videos, but if you prefer to read text, each video has a transcript. Click on the big blue title of a video which interests you, then on the page which comes up, scroll down and you’ll see links to the study guides and transcripts. For instance:

scienceforseminaries.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Study-Guide-To-Be-Human.pdf
The study guide for the To Be Human lecture. Scroll down for references to books on the theology.

scienceforseminaries.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/To-Be-Human.Transcript.pdf
The transcript of To Be Human.

 

[grannymh]

I looked and you have to be a student or professor with a username and password before you can read detailed course syllabi.

But I spent half-hour finding these links for you:

biology.cua.edu/courses/current.cfm
The biology courses. Click the blue course identifiers for a synopsis of each course. Looks vanilla biology to me, same as is taught at any secular university.

trs.cua.edu/courses/courses.cfm
The theology courses. Again, where biology is mentioned as part of a course it seems to be taught as straight science.

trs.cua.edu/Science-for-Seminaries/journals-and-other-related-materials.cfm
This is linked from the page I cited in the earlier post. The University seems to have a close relationship with the AAAS, and this page mentions an AAAS project called Science For Seminarians.

scienceforseminaries.org/resources/science-the-wide-angle/
This is the Science For Seminarians website. The page may take a while to display. There are various videos, but if you prefer to read text, each video has a transcript. Click on the big blue title of a video which interests you, then on the page which comes up, scroll down and you’ll see links to the study guides and transcripts. For instance:

scienceforseminaries.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Study-Guide-To-Be-Human.pdf
The study guide for the To Be Human lecture. Scroll down for references to books on the theology.

scienceforseminaries.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/To-Be-Human.Transcript.pdf
The transcript of To Be Human.

Thank you. I owe you.

So far, I found these courses. There is plenty of similar material on CAF.
TRS 200: Introduction to the Old Testament

**3.00 Credits **
An introduction to the books and theologies of the Old Testament including methods for interpreting Scripture in light of the Second Vatican Council’s Decree on Divine Revelation.

TRS 300: Narrative in the Old Testament

**3.00 Credits **
Narrative literature in general, its aims and procedures; Old Testament narrative tradition, overview and detailed analysis of selected narratives from historical, didactic, mythic, and apocalyptic traditions.

My computer is unfriendly today. I will go back to your post before my computer eats my post or it disappears into the white screen. Apparently, this is the fault of my computer. I will be getting a new computer.

 

[tonyrey]

But these are fairly basic questions that science should have been asking years ago. When we avoid these questions, then explanations for the 1829 relentless and progressive steps for the evolution of the eye, seem to take the micky.

I truthfully do not know how they can call this science.

In a secular society the Establishment is bound to favour an atheistic view of Evolution - as illustrated by their constant attacks on the Design argument.

 

[inocente]

But these are fairly basic questions that science should have been asking years ago. When we avoid these questions, then explanations for the 1829 relentless and progressive steps for the evolution of the eye, seem to take the micky.

I truthfully do not know how they can call this science.

Google Scholar finds lots of papers on the evolution of the eye - scholar.google.es/scholar?q=evolution+of+the+human+eye&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5

Have a look. I guess you’ll find dozens of papers on every one of your questions, and lots more papers answering questions you’ve not yet thought to ask. Anyone who genuinely wants to know will put in the effort to find out. And some of the papers will be written by Catholic scientists.

 

[grannymh]

I looked and you have to be a student or professor with a username and password before you can read detailed course syllabi.

But I spent half-hour finding these links for you:

biology.cua.edu/courses/current.cfm
The biology courses. Click the blue course identifiers for a synopsis of each course. Looks vanilla biology to me, same as is taught at any secular university.

trs.cua.edu/courses/courses.cfm
The theology courses. Again, where biology is mentioned as part of a course it seems to be taught as straight science.

trs.cua.edu/Science-for-Seminaries/journals-and-other-related-materials.cfm
This is linked from the page I cited in the earlier post. The University seems to have a close relationship with the AAAS, and this page mentions an AAAS project called Science For Seminarians.

scienceforseminaries.org/resources/science-the-wide-angle/
This is the Science For Seminarians website. The page may take a while to display. There are various videos, but if you prefer to read text, each video has a transcript. Click on the big blue title of a video which interests you, then on the page which comes up, scroll down and you’ll see links to the study guides and transcripts. For instance:

scienceforseminaries.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Study-Guide-To-Be-Human.pdf
The study guide for the To Be Human lecture. Scroll down for references to books on the theology.

scienceforseminaries.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/To-Be-Human.Transcript.pdf
The transcript of To Be Human.

I have started working through the above. What you are presenting is great. Thank you sincerely.

 

[Aloysium]

. . . evolving from Homo species to Homo species to modern humans took place in large polygenesis source populations. A large random breeding evolving population is not the same as the Catholic doctrine that the human species was founded by a population of two, Adam and Eve. The Homo/Pan split is a speciation event and not the original human population of Adam and Eve. . .

You make the point quite clearly.

As populations mix, we get greater diversity and as they become more isolated, differences will appear and we end up with so-called races, which is an illusion; there are no human sub-species.

I wanted to follow-up on a point you make.
It is that except in the case of very primitive life forms with rudimentary instinctual behaviour, breeding can hardly be said to be random.
The experiential make-up of any creature allows for its participation within the environment from which it emerges.
There are differences in social behaviour, showing great variation in complexity, but as a general principle, instinctively animals are drawn to the beautiful.
That is why in the darkness, where vision plays almost no role in their relationship with the world and each other, there are some pretty weird-looking creatures.
What may be beautiful to an animal is not necessarily the good for us, such as with promiscuity and female coercion as means of reproduction.

We have built-in ways of perceiving, feeling about and behaving that are shared with our fellow creatures on earth.
This is the psychologically equivalent of our sharing anatomical features such as a nervous system, heart and lungs, liver, bones and muscles and so on.
With respect to the soul/mind, the possession of free-will changes everything, reducing instincts to a secondary position and making love the primary drive.

Whether it is love of family or a particular individual or in the best case scenario, both, marriage boils down to choices - in courtship, on our wedding day and during the course of our marriage, with its joys and challenges. Our brokenness makes the pursuit of what gives true fulfillment and happiness very difficult. It is impossible actually without God, who is love and of whom marriage is a symbol, the human expression His Triune nature.