B
brian_custer
Guest
i think you are correct;
“so” is the “majority” of social service “$” coming strictly from charity… ?
“so” is the “majority” of social service “$” coming strictly from charity… ?
- Status
W
whichwaytogo47
Guest
In the USA, 80% of rich people are first generation rich. They earned their living. Most of them have a modest income. They knew how to spend less than what they made and investing wisely. It’s not a rigged system. Everyone has the opportunity to succeed though some people have more obstacles than others.
When you say the rich pay fewer in taxes, you miss the point. Those with a high income pay a lot more in taxes. However when you’re asset rich and have a lot of deductions, you pay lower taxes because you have less income. It’s best to give to charity than to rely on government to take care of the needy / poor.
When you say the rich pay fewer in taxes, you miss the point. Those with a high income pay a lot more in taxes. However when you’re asset rich and have a lot of deductions, you pay lower taxes because you have less income. It’s best to give to charity than to rely on government to take care of the needy / poor.
Last edited:
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Welfare spending, combined, is the biggest item in the pie chart of federal government spending according to this 2011 report. Not a “relatively small portion of the pie chart”. Each little initiative is a small portion, but added up they become one big piece.
Also, as mentioned in this report, state spending on welfare, particularly Medicaid and children’s health insurance, is substantial. Maybe brian_custer’s property taxes aren’t what pays for that in his state, since property taxes tend to fund the local school systems, but some other tax he is paying in his state likely pays for it.
Last edited:
Tis_Bearself
Patron
I don’t find the system in USA to be “rigged and unfair”. If it was so bad here, we wouldn’t have generations of immigrants beating down the doors to get into this country. People at the lower end of the economic spectrum get a lot of opportunities to succeed, and a percentage of them do really well. Those who don’t in some cases suffer from too many obstacles (illness, severe family dysfunction etc) but in many cases simply have a different mindset about values and how to live their life, and consequently make choices that provide value to them within their own value system, but don’t lead to going up the ladder economically. Again, SVDP teaches this extensively to its volunteers so they will be able to work with people who don’t think like the traditional middle-class person going up the ladder.
Last edited:
H
Hereiam
Guest
Sounds good, until you examine the list prepared by Jeff Sessions (well, there you go)…I challenge you and others to go down the list and throw out those items that are not “welfare”, but are related to education, employment retraining, health care…see how it dwindles.
Although not addressed in the list, it is interesting that both Social Security and Military Retirement is classified and “entitlement” by the Federal Government.
See this non-partisan link that shows only 9%, not 80% of federal spending goes to “safety net” [welfare] programs.
H
Hereiam
Guest
Why not do both? After giving monthly to CRS, Catholic Charities USA, Feed America, and my local parish foodbank, I find no issue in giving cash to the marginalized, not fearful of what they will do with it as the Pope suggests.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
It’s a bit of a quibble over words. The programs there are designed to help poor people. If you define “welfare” as just direct aid, then you can eliminate things, but if you include all the other help for lower income people , it’s substantial. I realize seeing Jeff Sessions’ name is like ringing Pavlov’s dog’s bell for many who will then find bases to pick it apart, but bottom line is, the feds do a lot to help the poor, which is why we do not have people starving in the US streets like they did when my parents were children.
W
whichwaytogo47
Guest
But since the government is shelling out the money, it’s still an entitlement. The government is not the most efficient in terms of resources as they are always a 3rd party payer. When you’re not the one paying for it (i.e. the taxpayer) or the one receiving the service (the TANF recipient, the SS, SSDI, or SSI recipient, the Section 8 housing recipient) you’re not going to care how much you spend or the quality of the service provided. If someone steals the copper piping in a section 8 housing unit, it doesn’t affect you since you’re not the landlord and if the landlord doesn’t make necessary repairs, it doesn’t affect you since you’re not the tenant in the home. The government may have regulations or laws that prohibits both but they’re not affected by the outcome of either egregious practice. They may even have a tax credit that entices someone to be a section 8 landlord.
L
Loud-living-dogma
Guest
Sometimes I wonder, couldn’t a charity (Christian, secular, whatever) just rent / build a big heated warehouse with room for lots and lots of cots / temporary beds, and the homeless could at least have a place to spend the night that’s not under a bridge?
I realize that there are missions that do something like that, but they are often overwhelmed, or require some kind of checkin process, that I believe sometimes the people can’t get immediate help.
I realize that there would be all kinds of problems with drugs / bedbugs / crime etc. but at least people would not be freezing on the street. It probably wouldn’t work, though, for various reasons.
I realize that there are missions that do something like that, but they are often overwhelmed, or require some kind of checkin process, that I believe sometimes the people can’t get immediate help.
I realize that there would be all kinds of problems with drugs / bedbugs / crime etc. but at least people would not be freezing on the street. It probably wouldn’t work, though, for various reasons.
W
whichwaytogo47
Guest
I agree. But a lot of the reason why the federal government has to get involved in because they have health & safety laws that prohibits much food from being served to the poor & the needy that is the reason why many non-profits no longer serve food to the poor. The regulations are too arduous. My mother-in-law runs a food pantry and it’s amazing what they need to do to have the food ready. There’s a lot of food from the grocery stores and restaurants that get wasted that could help the needy. When food donations are insufficient, she has to buy from the larger food pantry at a price per pound. They also are in big needs for personal care products / items. Because people are no longer starving with the social safety net, personal care items are the very next item that is critical. There’s only enough in stock to give one toilet roll per family.
I think this is fantastic. The MIL who runs the food pantry sees some people as regulars (some who truly need it & some that just don’t have the same mindset) and she sees some people who have it as a temporary respite for their situation. A middle class person doesn’t usually buy lottery tickets or borrow at 400% interest.
Namely government regulation. It’s a shame because the less expensive a charity can provide housing, the more housing that could be available.
Last edited:
G
glorybe
Guest
What the heck are you talking about? What a lot of rubble! Seriously, I think you’re the one missing the point. Geesh!! When I’m living on a very low fixed income, and had to drop some life saving meds because I can’t afford the outrageous costs, I am not stupid enough to give out my money to people who are sitting on their butts stealing from the truly needy, I will give it to those I’ve already listed. Sorry if I’m sounding a little ticked off, but your arrogance is staggering!
Indeed, the safety net.
I support the safety net and I willingly pay taxes to support it.
Consequently, if you’re truly needy, you should be getting help. If you’re not truly needy, frankly you have no business expecting me to help you.
Great post, and I’ll admit this is something that really bothers me.
I know what it’s like to be sharing a Social Security check with your widowed mother while you’re going to school full time trying to make a better life for yourself. And I stupidly gave money to two men with a sob story who headed right for the package store. Gee, my mother could have used that money to help pay for meds.
So, 99 percent of the time, when someone asks me for money, the answer is NO.
Last edited:
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Believe it or not, a number of homeless like living under the bridge or whatever. They don’t have to follow rules and they may even feel safer there. In the cities I have been in, there isn’t a shortage of shelter space and there are also people who will go around on cold nights collecting the homeless to take them to a warm place, or if that’s somehow not possible because the person won’t go, they give them blankets and such. People are not being left out in the street for lack of space, it’s more that the laws sometimes make it difficult to just remove them to a shelter if they don’t want to go.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
On the food donation point, I worked for a year on a service project where we grew produce to donate to local food banks. The produce grew great, we had tons of stuff. But getting it to food banks that could use it and would take it and had space to store it was way more work than growing and harvesting veggies. Huge amounts of waste. At one point I arrived at the garden to find about 30 big slightly unripe tomatoes just pitched in the trash. I took them all home, ripened them on the window sill and had fried green tomatoes and other tomato stuff for a solid week.
W
whichwaytogo47
Guest
You’re correct. The reason why someone is homeless is far more important than money. Teaching them how to deal with themselves and how to fish is far more important than a one-time donation for sustenance. Truly caring about the individual is best.
It’s amazing those who try and work with the homeless. It’s amazing that people want to bring them somewhere warm or to give them a blanket.
Hugs for what you do.
It’s amazing the genuine good-will that you have. God judges the heart, something you have a lot of. I don’t know you but you seem like an amazing person who cares about everyone around them. Anyone of means can write a check - the person who actually cares though is far more charitable. You have much kindness.
Two people approached a well. One poor person gave half of what she had. The other one tithed their income. God loved the one who gave little more while he scorned the one who gave from abundance and thought they were doing something. My #1 pet peeve is arrogance and self-righteousness. Goodwill is one of the top attributes in a friend - a person who has goodwill is someone that believes in the dignity of every human being / person.
Last edited:
T
TheLittleLady
Guest
As you may have the means to do so, I would recommend you volunteer with the Missionaries of Charity http://www.motherteresa.org/07_family/Volunteering/v_cal.html#Contactmc2
Join the Peace Corps for a year.
If that is too much, volunteer with the homeless shelter and really talk to the people there. Volunteer with St Vincent de Paul and again, listen with an open heart.
Then, come back here and talk about the noble poor.
G
glorybe
Guest
Yes, you brought up a couple of other things that were in the back of my mind also. One – well, I’m old now, but when I was younger, I could see that so many elderly people like my grandmother were barely able to get by, but even so, out of the kindness of their hearts, they’d give their money to those pretending to be needy but were just stealing from gullible people. Like I’ve said, I do donate to the needy and organizations that do wonderful things for human beings, but I choose them wisely. My first priority is St. Jude’s Children’s Research Hospital, my priority because my first child died from Leukemia, at a time when the diagnosis was an instant death sentence. Research has made it possible now for thousands of children to live healthy and happy after having cancers, and St. Jude’s has been a big part of that. Secondly, I volunteered with St. Vincent de Paul for 15 years, giving out lunches and emergency foods to the homeless and poor, and just spending time talking with them. I truly get how that made you feel giving your money to those two men when your mom could have used it for medicines. I’ll stop now and take a deep breath (Russian temper) 
T
TheLittleLady
Guest
You do realize to collect SSDI a worker has to have have worked and paid INTO the system for at least 10 years, don’t you?
W
whichwaytogo47
Guest
Very much aware that SSDI requires 40 quarters (10 years) of work. And SS is based on up to a 35 year work record - sometimes people worked in longer. But even as people pay into social security, it’s still the government paying out.
Very cool, you’re human!!!I’ll stop now and take a deep breath (Russian temper)
My 100 year (soon to be 101 year) old grandma has donated to them for over 70+ years. She also lost a child 73 years ago (Martha died in-utero). She’s also donated to Boys-Town orphanage. She also donates $20/week to the church and another $20/every 3 weeks to the local clothing shelter and contributes 10% of her pay to an annual campaign. She also buys her clothes and donates them (very lightly used) the next year.
Last edited:
- Status