Giving to panhandler

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When I pay into my 401K, yes, the disbursement will come from Wells Fargo. That does not mean that Wells Fargo is giving me “welfare”.
 
TheLittleLady said:
When I pay into my 401K, yes, the disbursement will come from Wells Fargo. That does not mean that Wells Fargo is giving me “welfare”.
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But it’s your funds; it’s segregated from Wells Fargo assets. You have securities. When you pay your FICA taxes, the government commingles that and redistributes the wealth accordingly to what was paid in. You also don’t get back what you paid in - you on average get less. If we had private segregated accounts and you paid a 20% one-time excise tax on your contribution into a government “insurance” fund, that would truly be your money.
 
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Exactly. It is more nuanced than “SSDI and SS are welfare programs” as you and I both know.
 
TheLittleLady said:
Exactly. It is more nuanced than “SSDI and SS are welfare programs” as you and I both know.
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But they’re still obligations of the US government. They take what we pay in to give to retirees today. So I will pay in for the next 36 years to retirees today and hopefully I will receive 30 years from taxpayers tomorrow. I expect my SS check to be 30-45% less because of the number of taxpayers paying in vs going out.
 
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TheLittleLady said:
Exactly. It is more nuanced than “SSDI and SS are welfare programs” as you and I both know.
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Right.

It’s not an exact dollar-for-dollar match between what you pay in and what you get back. Some of the older folks used to misunderstand that; i.e, they used to think it went into your “account” (like a 401K) for you to get back later.

Also, I always say, you’re paying for an insurance component. If you don’t live long enough to collect it, it’s designed so that your survivor(s) might get something.
 
You are making assumptions as to what I may or may not be doing already or may or may not have done already. Never a good idea to brag about being charitable. By the way, these are all great ideas.
 
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Looks like this thread has become something of a hornet’s nest. My main point, is that in my own opinion it’s better to help as best you can than to ponder too much on how much someone really needs your help. Because EVERYONE could do better. Few people end up in dire circumstances by making all the right moves. More to the point, if you’re going to quibble over who you hand a few dollars to here and there, then why bother, as I will say again, if you’re quibbling over it you truly have missed the point anyway. If we are going to truly worry about giving to others because they may not be somehow worthy, if that little bit of money really means that much to anyone, then maybe that person should hold on to it tightly so that they don’t end up someday at the mercy of someone who asks similar questions. I apologize if my thinking ion the matter offends anyone, but it seems a bit pious to me to see people wasting a lot of time wondering whether or not a person who humbles themselves enough to stand in the street and ask for our help is really worthy of our help. The real question is whether or not we are worthy enough to help. It’s a simple matter really.
 
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The most noble persons I have met have been those with the least as far as material wealth.
 
glorybe said:
When I’m living on a very low fixed income, and had to drop some life saving meds because I can’t afford the outrageous costs, I am not stupid enough to give out my money to people who are sitting on their butts stealing from the truly needy,
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A sad, but common sentiment that vanishes when one understands the Economy of Gifting.

God blesses us with material and financial gifts that we are not deserving of. When our hands are filled by those gifts we have no capacity to receive more. However if we pass them from our hands to the hands of a neighbor, God sees room in our hands to bless us with even more.

Its a Franciscan thing.
 
I have actually seen very noble persons at all income levels, as well as plenty of ignoble persons at all income levels.

However, a poor person should not have to be “noble” for us to help them, as many are going to fall short of that mark by our standards (which may differ from other groups’ standards) and we still need to help everybody. I am not averse to helping the kind of poor people who are poor because they blow all their money partying, I just would not help them with money.
 
The “Franciscan thing” is fine for those who are called to be Franciscans. It’s a bit much to be expecting a person who is so broke they cannot pay for their own necessary medication to be giving away the small amount of money they do have, and promising that even more abundance would return to that person. It frankly sounds like those creepy fundraising speeches made by TV preachers.
 
That is simply a point of reference that helps explain the aperture through which I view the system. There is nothing in this world to brag about, as whatever condition we’re in is mostly luck anyway. You can be well off one day and broke the next.

All the best!
 
There are definitely many noble people at all income levels just as there are classless people at all income levels too. And even if a poor person is a free-loader, it doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t help them if we can.

Income levels don’t make you wealthy. Asset levels managed properly make you wealthy. Making a million dollars a year doesn’t make you a millionaire, having a net worth of $1+ million makes you a millionaire. There are people that make $75,000 a year or less that are wealthy and people who make upwards of $200,000 a year and are totally broke!!! Appearing affluent doesn’t make you rich.
 
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