Glenn Beck rally will be a measure of the tea party's strength

[josephdavid]

I have no idea why you find it so interesting. Many Catholics don’t think God meant six 24hr days in Genesis with the evening and morning forming a day. We don’t take everything literally. Jesus didn’t even utter the word abortion. Many a Catholic woman speak in Church despite what Paul said. But Christ sure enough spoke clearly about the poor, the hungry, the homeless, the sick and how serving them serves Him and by doing these things how you shall have eternal life.

But there are many references in Scripture which talks about life beginning at conception. Most important example is “And the Word became flesh”. The moment Our Mother was filled with the Holy Spirit she was pregnant with the Son of Man. This is the foundation that Christians should follow His Word that Life begins at conception.

I refer you to my SN. See Matt 25. Begin @ verse 31 and read to the end of the chapter for what Christ emphasized for righteousness and eternal life. You don’t even need an Apostolic successor to interpret it. Christ made His social Gospel pretty clear.

I agree. Matthew 25 and other Scripture does not excuse the politician from making choices towards the benifit of all life and social justice (couldnt refuse).

When the Church and individuals have not for whatever reason been able to fully achieve Christ’s mission, govt can indeed play a role as well in making a huge difference in the lives of these Children of God.

Scripture and the Catechism make it clear the government has an important role in society. Which our govenrment is part of our society. We are the govenrment and we elect certain people to represent us and all It’s peoples in this land. So long as they do not trample on the rights of others. However, some will say taxation is not permissible hahaha.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Christ made the mandate to help the poor a personal choice, not a mandatory complussion enforced by government decree. Government entitlement “cure poverty” programs become de-facto mandatory, and thus cease to be acts of charity. I thought that we had a “wall of separation of church and state”? Isn’t compulsory charity enforced by the punative power of government a mix of church and state if you mix in biblical references with the wonderful work that government can do in fulfilling Christ’s mission?

 

[TMC]

Could you please state which document this is with a link?

The same document quoted by others, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith’s 1984 "INSTRUCTION ON CERTAIN ASPECTS OF THE “THEOLOGY OF LIBERATION”

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19840806_theology-liberation_en.html

 

[josephdavid]

Christ made the mandate to help the poor a personal choice, not a mandatory complussion enforced by government decree. Government entitlement “cure poverty” programs become de-facto mandatory, and thus cease to be acts of charity. I thought that we had a “wall of separation of church and state”? Isn’t compulsory charity enforced by the punative power of government a mix of church and state if you mix in biblical references with the wonderful work that government can do in fulfilling Christ’s mission?

So there are no more charitable organizations anymore?

So if I run for political office and if I am elected, I can help my own pockets before my countryman? I do not have to adhere to what our Faith says about abortion? I no longer have to honor the Sabbath?

 

[TMC]

Ayn Rand describes a ;religion’ that replaces Catholic theology with capitalistic principles. she is explicitly non-Christian of course.

Other than that there is no Catholic equivalent of liberation theology outside of the fascism and ancient regimes of previous eras.

The preponderance of conservative Catholics reject fascism unequivocally too.

Ironically, it is the atheistic Rand’s worldview that many on the religious right repeatedly invoke as a model. There are good and important principles present in what many call “liberation theology,” as attested to by Vatican documents and statements by the Pope and others. There are also good and important principles present in the some of the beliefs of ultra-capitalists like Rand. Neither captures the fullness of Catholic teaching–Christianity is not about which political system “wins”.

I don’t know if Obama is really a liberation theology adherent, or if Beck is really a Randian. My point is that Catholics should reject attempts by extremists on both sides to replace theology with politics. That was the point of my initial comment, which was that it is ridiculous to view as “ecumenical” a movement that starts with the assumption that anyone who disagrees with your politics is not a real Christian.

 

[josephdavid]

Ironically, it is the atheistic Rand’s worldview that many on the religious right repeatedly invoke as a model. There are good and important principles present in what many call “liberation theology,” as attested to by Vatican documents and statements by the Pope and others. There are also good and important principles present in the some of the beliefs of ultra-capitalists like Rand. Neither captures the fullness of Catholic teaching–Christianity is not about which political system “wins”.

I don’t know if Obama is really a liberation theology adherent, or if Beck is really a Randian. My point is that Catholics should reject attempts by extremists on both sides to replace theology with politics. That was the point of my initial comment, which was that it is ridiculous to view as “ecumenical” a movement that starts with the assumption that anyone who disagrees with your politics is not a real Christian.

Great comment.

 

[TMC]

Christ made the mandate to help the poor a personal choice, not a mandatory complussion enforced by government decree. Government entitlement “cure poverty” programs become de-facto mandatory, and thus cease to be acts of charity. I thought that we had a “wall of separation of church and state”? Isn’t compulsory charity enforced by the punative power of government a mix of church and state if you mix in biblical references with the wonderful work that government can do in fulfilling Christ’s mission?

Why is giving money from your pocket charity, but voting to give your tax dollars through the government not charity? The Pope has repeatedly affirmed that we are called to do more than be individually charitable by giving for the immediate needs of the poor, we are also called to work together as a society to address the structural causes of poverty.

 

[josephdavid]

Well…if he was a black liberation guy… then I no longer have any respect for his mission.
As a Catholic… that is evil.

I know polite must be a hard concept for some… but when realizing it was the date its nice to remember.

Sorry to hear that. Because for his work we have truly equal rights for all here.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

So there are no more charitable organizations anymore?

So if I run for political office and if I am elected, I can help my own pockets before my countryman? I do not have to adhere to what our Faith says about abortion? I no longer have to honor the Sabbath?

Absolutely. If you refused to follow your faith dictates as a politician, I wouldn’t vote for you. If you tried to legislate charity, I would won’t vote for you either. Charity is a PERSONAL decision, not a collective one. And if you opted to help your pockets before your countrymen, that would just make you a typical politician.

So, if you were a hypocrite…meaning you claim one set of beliefs and then followed something to the contrary in your public record, then I wouldn’t vote for you.

If you tried to FORCE me to follow you faith edicts by turning them into law, I wouldn’t vote for you either.

 

[estesbob]

The left is truly getting desperate. This morning the Huffington Post offered $100,000 for anybody who could give evidence that would destroy Becks reputation.

They have since withdrawn the offer.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Why is giving money from your pocket charity, but voting to give your tax dollars through the government not charity? The Pope has repeatedly affirmed that we are called to do more than be individually charitable by giving for the immediate needs of the poor, we are also called to work together as a society to address the structural causes of poverty.

Because charity is a personal act of unconditional love. Tax funded entitlement programs are not. Additionally, we can act as a community to help the poor without the government stepping in and using force of arms to extract it from us. Consider the mission of Catholic Charities. You are free to give as much as you want to this organization without fear of criminal punishment if you do not comply.

 

[estesbob]

Well…if he was a black liberation guy… then I no longer have any respect for his mission.
As a Catholic… that is evil.

I know polite must be a hard concept for some… but when realizing it was the date its nice to remember.

Dr. King never embraced liberation theology. He would be aghast to see what passes for the civil rights movement today.

 

[Catherine_D]

There are those who liken some forms of taxation to slavery. Strictly speaking, they may have a point.

When the fruits of the labor of one person (such as their earnings) are forcibly extracted from them in order to give the money to someone else, that is not demonstrably different from slavery. Yet that is the situation when the earnings of one person are taken through taxation and given to someone else. Charity is voluntary, taxation is not and I suspect this is where the difference lies in such a scenario.

Add to that, government welfare programs are notoriously corrupt, wasteful, mismanaged, etc., with the result that vast sums of money do not go to the poor for which the program may have been created. Charitable organizations do a much better of job and a far greater percentage of the funds available go to the poor.

 

[josephdavid]

Dr. King never embraced liberation theology. He would be aghast to see what passes for the civil rights movement today.

Would love to hear what sources you have to have that conclusion.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Dr. King never embraced liberation theology. He would be aghast to see what passes for the civil rights movement today.

Exactly, there is nothing in the historical record that would even suggest that Dr. king submitted to the theologically heretical beliefs of liberation theology, especially the black liberation variety. It especially befuddles me how Fr. Michael Plegger in Chicago can be honored by the bishop for his work by Archbishop George, with his public support for liberation theology and the ordination of women, an issue summarily put to rest by Pope John Paul II in Ordinatio Sacerdotalis.

 

[estesbob]

Would love to hear what sources you have to have that conclusion.

I assume you’ve never read his speeches or his books? The modern civil rights movement is all based on victimhood and reparations-both of which Dr. King categorically rejected.

How would one reconcile:

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

With affirmative action?

 

[j1akey]

Unless one thinks there is something inherently wrong with the message who funds it is irrelevant. What about Glenn Beck’s message did you find offensive

Knowing who funds something is always important whether or not you agree with the message. Information is knowledge. I’ll watch the highlights, I had better things to do on Saturday than listen to the retard squad talk about “restoring america” whatever the hell that means.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Would love to hear what sources you have to have that conclusion.

Read the text of the “I Have a Dream” speech here and then look at anything ever said and done by Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson, particularly with Sharpton’s “counter-rally” in which attendee’s proclaimed “We will reclaim the dream. It was ours to begin with”.

So, King’s dream of an end to racial division is being reclaimed by a racial group who is claiming ownership of the dream? King’s dream was for EVERYBODY, not just black people. His dream was that the “sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners would sit down together at the table of brotherhood.” How can they do with with people who claimed to have marched with King claiming ownership of that dream?

 

[TMC]

Christ made the mandate to help the poor a personal choice, not a mandatory complussion enforced by government decree. Government entitlement “cure poverty” programs become de-facto mandatory, and thus cease to be acts of charity. I thought that we had a “wall of separation of church and state”? Isn’t compulsory charity enforced by the punative power of government a mix of church and state if you mix in biblical references with the wonderful work that government can do in fulfilling Christ’s mission?

Do you feel the same way about marriage, divorce, abortion and birth control? Are they matters of personal conscience that the government should not be involved in? If not, why is that different than caring for the poor?

 

[estesbob]

Knowing who funds something is always important whether or not you agree with the message. Information is knowledge. I’ll watch the highlights, I had better things to do on Saturday than listen to the retard squad talk about “restoring america” whatever the hell that means.

I suspect those taking potshots at the term “Restore America” are the same that bought into the “Bring change to America” nonsense that got us into the mess we’re in now.