Glenn Beck rally will be a measure of the tea party's strength

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TMC said:
Ironically, it is the atheistic Rand’s worldview that many on the religious right repeatedly invoke as a model. There are good and important principles present in what many call “liberation theology,” as attested to by Vatican documents and statements by the Pope and others. There are also good and important principles present in the some of the beliefs of ultra-capitalists like Rand. Neither captures the fullness of Catholic teaching–Christianity is not about which political system “wins”.
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TMC said:
Do you feel the same way about marriage, divorce, abortion and birth control? Are they matters of personal conscience that the government should not be involved in? If not, why is that different than caring for the poor?
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Marriage is a sacrement and the government should get out of this business altogether. Social relationships should be handled by standard contract law. Since when has legislating marriage and divorce improved either institution?

Matters of life and death inherently ARE legitimate government functions. They are based in natural law, upon which positive law is founded. So, there is your answer on abortion.

Birth control is a personal decision that the government needs to extract itself, both legislatively and financially.

Yes, caring for the poor is a personal decision that is best handled either individually or by voluntary groups of like-minded individuals who form charitable organizations. This is how poverty was addressed until Keyesianism and Progressive social engineering political elitists came out of the closet and decided what was best for us. In 1964 (LBJ’s War on Poverty and the Great Society), the poverty rate in the US was roughly 15%. Today, in 2010, after 43 years and untold billions (trillions?) of dollars to “eradicate poverty”, the poverty rate is 13.2% (U.S. Census Bureau statistics). Government can’t “cure” anything, and any politician who says it can is duping the populous into keeping him/herself in office so they can enrich themselves at tax-payer expense.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
Read the text of the “I Have a Dream” speech here

I have and he speaks of government too. Also do you know the history of that rally and what lead to it?
and then look at anything ever said and done by Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson, particularly with Sharpton’s “counter-rally” in which attendee’s proclaimed “We will reclaim the dream. It was ours to begin with”.
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Scott_Lafrance said:
Because charity is a personal act of unconditional love. Tax funded entitlement programs are not. Additionally, we can act as a community to help the poor without the government stepping in and using force of arms to extract it from us. Consider the mission of Catholic Charities. You are free to give as much as you want to this organization without fear of criminal punishment if you do not comply.
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Exactly.

The word charity is derived from the Latin caritas, which, of course, means love. It is impossible for the government to show any kind of love. I’ve had this discussion many times with people here who think that government programs achieve the same goals as individual charity. But nothing is farther from the truth. Remember that charity does good for both the receiver and the giver.

Scott, I fear you may be wasting your keyboard breath. I’ve had this very same discussion with the very same people that you are arguing with now. I suspect you will have a very similar discussion and will fail to make any inroads.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
Marriage is a sacrement and the government should get out of this business altogether. Social relationships should be handled by standard contract law. Since when has legislating marriage and divorce improved either institution
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?
So you are against the federal government interviening?
Matters of life and death inherently ARE legitimate government functions. They are based in natural law, upon which positive law is founded. So, there is your answer on abortion.

Birth control is a personal decision that the government needs to extract itself, both legislatively and financially.
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So why did Republicans and President Bush overwhelmingly support federal funding of Title X programs?
In 1964 (LBJ’s War on Poverty and the Great Society), the poverty rate in the US was roughly 15%. Today, in 2010, after 43 years and untold billions (trillions?) of dollars to “eradicate poverty”, the poverty rate is 13.2% (U.S. Census Bureau statistics). Government can’t “cure” anything, and any politician who says it can is duping the populous into keeping him/herself in office so they can enrich themselves at tax-payer expense.
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What was the poverty leval before 1964? Why is it 13% now? It was less than that 2 years ago. It was even lesser than that in the 90’s.

Other than Medicare and Social Security what is the % of GDP spent on welfare programs such as food stamps, housing assistance, medicare?

No the government can not cure everything. It all starts with the individual. But a child does not choose to be in poverty. Also it has been shown time after time that charitable organizations can do only so much and thus rely on government to help.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
Marriage is a sacrement and the government should get out of this business altogether. Social relationships should be handled by standard contract law. Since when has legislating marriage and divorce improved either institution?

Matters of life and death inherently ARE legitimate government functions. They are based in natural law, upon which positive law is founded. So, there is your answer on abortion.

Birth control is a personal decision that the government needs to extract itself, both legislatively and financially.

Yes, caring for the poor is a personal decision that is best handled either individually or by voluntary groups of like-minded individuals who form charitable organizations. This is how poverty was addressed until Keyesianism and Progressive social engineering political elitists came out of the closet and decided what was best for us. In 1964 (LBJ’s War on Poverty and the Great Society), the poverty rate in the US was roughly 15%. Today, in 2010, after 43 years and untold billions (trillions?) of dollars to “eradicate poverty”, the poverty rate is 13.2% (U.S. Census Bureau statistics). Government can’t “cure” anything, and any politician who says it can is duping the populous into keeping him/herself in office so they can enrich themselves at tax-payer expense.
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I disagree with your conclusions, but I agree that your position on charity is consistent with your stated position on other matters of faith. That is all one can expect or require.
 
Darryl1958 said:
TMC;7009246:
Many? Please site names and sources.

It is clear that Beck is a libertarian and the church that Obama attended for twenty years was a black liberation theology church. Perhaps he was not smart enough, or sleeping and therefore did not know what was being taught by his good friends Wright and Pfleger.
Perhpas not. Obviously Beck is under the assumption that Obama is both smart enough and alert enough and authentic enough to have known what was going down in that church.

The tithing that Beck advocates is hardly Randian, with her virtue of selfishness and all. Itis more typical of the traditional American model of small government and big individuals with big hearts and private organizations helping the orphans and widows and afflicted.

That is fine. Your point was short on specfics on the extremes of the religious right however, and therefore the point has to be made that the extremes are in the voices of Rand and fascistic ancien regime models, and not in the voices of the Catholic conservatives today.
…as far as I know…
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I do not have time or incliination to crawl through mountains of Beck’s materials, but I have heard and seen him speaking favorably of Rand. I know that many others on the right do the same. Do you deny that is true?

More importantly, do you deny that extreme voices on both left and right displace religion with pseudo-religious political views? Christ was not a conservative or a liberal - or a member of any “-ism”. I reject the attempts of politicians of all stripes to hijack Christianity or to claim a divine mandate for their point of view.
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estesbob said:
The left is truly getting desperate. This morning the Huffington Post offered $100,000 for anybody who could give evidence that would destroy Becks reputation.

They have since withdrawn the offer.
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the left doesn’t have to start making things up. Prove your point. This is ridiculous.
 
Via_Dolorosa said:
the left doesn’t have to start making things up. Prove your point. This is ridiculous.
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Nothing that irritates me more when either political parties and their pundits make things up or snip parts of the truth out to support their political ideologies. It is sad. I especially despise it when they distort religions to do the same.
 
Via_Dolorosa said:
the left doesn’t have to start making things up. Prove your point. This is ridiculous.
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$100,000 For Glenn Beck’s Sex Tape

Rupert Murdoch and the Koch brothers are happy to throw money at the rising tide of right wing lunacy. Breitbart offered $100,000 for JournoList, the email listserve that brought down WaPo blogger Dave Weigel this June.

Why did they do it? Because they stand to make a lot of money off the anti-black president movement, and they are rich enough to imprint their beliefs on the American sheeple.

High net worth progressive Democrats don’t do this as much, perhaps because they’re not typically in cahoots with Boeing or Monsanto or Halliburton, et al. Also, there are fewer anti-communist, religious crackpots on the left.

Before we get to the reward money, a little “Tea Baggers for Beginners.”

observer.com/2010/100000-glenn-becks-sex-tape
 
estesbob said:
$100,000 For Glenn Beck’s Sex Tape

Rupert Murdoch and the Koch brothers are happy to throw money at the rising tide of right wing lunacy. Breitbart offered $100,000 for JournoList, the email listserve that brought down WaPo blogger Dave Weigel this June.

Why did they do it? Because they stand to make a lot of money off the anti-black president movement, and they are rich enough to imprint their beliefs on the American sheeple.

High net worth progressive Democrats don’t do this as much, perhaps because they’re not typically in cahoots with Boeing or Monsanto or Halliburton, et al. Also, there are fewer anti-communist, religious crackpots on the left.

observer.com/2010/100000-glenn-becks-sex-tape

Funny but I suspect you will not apologize for calling me a liar.
Before we get to the reward money, a little “Tea Baggers for Beginners.”

%between%
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If that is true it is disgusting and ameraturish. Why can not people just present the facts and let them lie where they are? Why dig up personal lives of others in that manner to discredit some one? Both the Right and Left do this and it is disturbing and sets our country further back from solving the problems we are facing today.

To me it is unpatriotic!
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
Matters of life and death inherently ARE legitimate .
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👍 Now we are making progress! It’s a matter of life and death for folks who are homeless either freezing on the streets on a frigid night or dying of thirst in 100 degree heat with no air conditioning. It is a matter of life or death for folks who can’t afford to see a dr. Can’t afford to buy a prescription. Having to choose between food on their table for their kids or medicine for themselves. These are folks no one questions whether or not they are human beings. They’ve gone from embryo to fetus to a born baby and walk the earth. I’m glad you get the picture!

I only wish the priest at my nearby parish a block away from the homeless man standing on the corner trying to get by in 90 degree heat selling bottled water for a dollar would get the picture. And not say stuff like his answer to the poor is to get a job. It might be his answer. But it was not HIS only answer. God bless and peace.
 
This might be a good place to insert the fact that the Huffington Post has been recommended by the current administration as a good source of news.
 
CMatt25 said:
👍 Now we are making progress! It’s a matter of life and death for folks who are homeless either freezing on the streets on a frigid night or dying of thirst in 100 degree heat with no air conditioning. It is a matter of life or death for folks who can’t afford to see a dr. Can’t afford to buy a prescription. Having to choose between food on their table for their kids or medicine for themselves. These are folks no one questions whether or not they are human beings. They’ve gone from embryo to fetus to a born baby and walk the earth. I’m glad you get the picture!

I only wish the priest at my nearby parish a block away from the homeless man standing on the corner trying to get by in 90 degree heat selling bottled water for a dollar would get the picture. And not say stuff like his answer to the poor is to get a job. It might be his answer. But it was not HIS only answer. God bless and peace.
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Homelessness is a matter of charity, not legislation. Charity is a personal matter, not a governmental one.

You make all the progress you want, I will stick with my conscience and Tradition.
 
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