So sorry you feel so threatened by diversity of thought. I feel good around diversity and think it is healthy. I think it is good to be tolerant of more than just our own point of view…otherwise we become rigid and narrow. We love Glenn Beck and he remains in our prayers!OK I guess that you have guessed that I consider myself a progressive. One thing that I like about the limited amount of progressive talk radio i can get is that the host of the show will post the primary documents that are being discussed. I very much like the fact that I can read the original document. Most progressive hosts invite one to a conversation based on the original documents. They give their take and invite the audience to give their take on the same document. Do any of the "compassionate’ conservatives give original documents and ask another’s opinion and discussion? or do they tell you how to respond? You seem to all be one trick ponies to me and have no original thoughts. just saying.
Hey, I’m a progressive. I’m not theatened by diversity of thought. I, too, think it is healthy. I’m just saying be careful of who you put your faith in. You chose Genn Beck. I choose the bishops.So sorry you feel so threatened by diversity of thought. I feel good around diversity and think it is healthy. I think it is good to be tolerant of more than just our own point of view…otherwise we become rigid and narrow. We love Glenn Beck and he remains in our prayers!
That is a condescending statement that I find offensive. The Bishops were for it before they were against it.Hey, I’m a progressive. I’m not theatened by diversity of thought. I, too, think it is healthy. I’m just saying be careful of who you put your faith in. You chose Genn Beck. I choose the bishops.
Again, from my response to elise:4elise
thanks for posting the following from the Catechism…
*"Catechism of the Catholic Church
SOCIAL JUSTICE
…These rights are **prior to society ***and must be recognized by it…"
My point exactly and is opposite to the call for Social Justice by the USCCB with respect to health care. Health care is NOT a right, other than your ability to treat yourself. We have a right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, temporary ownership of private property (thou shalt not steal), among other things, and such rights come from God. If something comes from society it is not a right, as nice as it might be.
Bartering **in a society **has increased health care way beyond one’s ability to select the right herb. Health care as is available in developed countries, is not a God given right.
You have a right to life; that means that I cannot morally take that away from you. I believe in return for that gift from God, you must feed yourself, breathe, drink water, and practice basic hygiene. It does not mean that I can or should do any of those things for you, unless you are truly disabled, and in such a situation I, (not the government) have a moral obligation to be charitable. If I am forced to do it by the government, well, it isn’t even charity on my part, is it. If I vote for an idea in government to take property from a third party and give it to you, that isn’t charity either, is it? That is legal theft of someone’s legitimate private property regardless of the motive
We are obligated to consider what the USCCB says. We are not obligated to follow it, and it certainly cannot be considered the Church’s teaching. The Church, were they to take such a confiscatory position as the legislation originally supported by the USCCB, would find itself in a bit of a pickle I think. Would Rome actually concern itself with insurance for poor Americans at the expense of the more needy in the world who cannot drop by any emergency room to get free care?
I think when the USCCB started out trying to solve a medical care issue through government, and erroneously called it a right, tremendous damage was done rather than true economic expansion of health care availability, which of course all of us would agree would be desireable. I wish everyone always started off with the presumption that nothing other than a God given right is free, and anything characterized otherwise will be counterproductive and very expensive.
No two ways about it…you cannot obligate other Americans to pay for health insurance for people who smoke several packs of ciggarettes4elise
thanks for posting the following from the Catechism…
*"Catechism of the Catholic Church
SOCIAL JUSTICE
…These rights are **prior to society ***and must be recognized by it…"
My point exactly and is opposite to the call for Social Justice by the USCCB with respect to health care. Health care is NOT a right, other than your ability to treat yourself. We have a right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, temporary ownership of private property (thou shalt not steal), among other things, and such rights come from God. If something comes from society it is not a right, as nice as it might be.
Bartering **in a society **has increased health care way beyond one’s ability to select the right herb. Health care as is available in developed countries, is not a God given right.
You have a right to life; that means that I cannot morally take that away from you. I believe in return for that gift from God, you must feed yourself, breathe, drink water, and practice basic hygiene. It does not mean that I can or should do any of those things for you, unless you are truly disabled, and in such a situation I, (not the government) have a moral obligation to be charitable. If I am forced to do it by the government, well, it isn’t even charity on my part, is it. If I vote for an idea in government to take property from a third party and give it to you, that isn’t charity either, is it? That is legal theft of someone’s legitimate private property regardless of the motive
We are obligated to consider what the USCCB says. We are not obligated to follow it, and it certainly cannot be considered the Church’s teaching. The Church, were they to take such a confiscatory position as the legislation originally supported by the USCCB, would find itself in a bit of a pickle I think. Would Rome actually concern itself with insurance for poor Americans at the expense of the more needy in the world who cannot drop by any emergency room to get free care?
I think when the USCCB started out trying to solve a medical care issue through government, and erroneously called it a right, tremendous damage was done rather than true economic expansion of health care availability, which of course all of us would agree would be desireable. I wish everyone always started off with the presumption that nothing other than a God given right is free, and anything characterized otherwise will be counterproductive and very expensive.
Exactly…to obtain “their due” means for them to take in what is theirs without having Socialism extract or redistribute “their due” from them. Thanks for sharing.Again, from my response to elise:
**"From your Catechism quotes above,
a favorite of mine:
"Society ensures social justice by providing the conditions that allow associations and individuals to obtain their due.
Respect for the human person considers the other “another self.” It presupposes respect for the fundamental rights that flow from the dignity intrinsic of the person.
The equality of men concerns their dignity as persons and the rights that flow from it.
The differences among persons belong to God’s plan, who wills that we should need one another.
These differences should encourage charity.**
The equal dignity of human persons requires the effort to reduce excessive social and economic inequalities. It gives urgency to the elimination of sinful inequalities.
Solidarity is an eminently Christian virtue. It practices the sharing of spiritual goods even more than material ones.""
You dont know what you are talking about.That is a condescending statement that I find offensive. The Bishops were for it before they were against it.
I choose the basics of what constitutes a God given right, the Catechism, Pope Leo, Bishop Sheen, logic and history. The USCCB was wrong and ended up with funding for abortion due to their lack of analysis and adherence to basic principles. They completely ignored subsidiarity while getting into this in the first place. Glenn Beck was a bit more right on this one…sorry.
Thanks be to God…you do know what you are talking about! We all need to hang in there…we have read the last chapter.You dont know what you are talking about.
One more time:Exactly…to obtain “their due” means for them to take in what is theirs without having Socialism extract or redistribute “their due” from them. Thanks for sharing.
The bishops were for health coverage for undocumented sick children.That is a condescending statement that I find offensive. The Bishops were for it before they were against it.
I choose the basics of what constitutes a God given right, the Catechism, Pope Leo, Bishop Sheen, logic and history. The USCCB was wrong and ended up with funding for abortion due to their lack of analysis and adherence to basic principles. They completely ignored subsidiarity while getting into this in the first place. Glenn Beck was a bit more right on this one…sorry.
I have highlighted portions of your reply - just to make it easier to address.4elise
thanks for posting the following from the Catechism…
*"Catechism of the Catholic Church
SOCIAL JUSTICE
…These rights are **prior to society ***and must be recognized by it…"
My point exactly and is opposite to the call for Social Justice by the USCCB with respect to health care. Health care is NOT a right, other than your ability to treat yourself. We have a** right to life,** liberty, pursuit of happiness, temporary ownership of private property (thou shalt not steal), among other things, and such rights come from God. If something comes from society it is not a right, as nice as it might be.
Bartering **in a society **has increased health care way beyond one’s ability to select the right herb. Health care as is available in developed countries, is not a God given right.
You have a right to life; that means that I cannot morally take that away from you. I believe in return for that gift from God, you must feed yourself, breathe, drink water, and practice basic hygiene. It does not mean that I can or should do any of those things for you, unless you are truly disabled, and in such a situation** I, (not the government) have a moral obligation to be charitable**. If I am forced to do it by the government, well, it isn’t even charity on my part, is it. If I vote for an idea in government to take property from a third party and give it to you, that isn’t charity either, is it? That is legal theft of someone’s legitimate private property regardless of the motive
We are obligated to consider what the USCCB says. We are not obligated to follow it, and it certainly cannot be considered the Church’s teaching. The Church, were they to take such a confiscatory position as the legislation originally supported by the USCCB, would find itself in a bit of a pickle I think. Would Rome actually concern itself with insurance for poor Americans at the expense of the more needy in the world who cannot drop by any emergency room to get free care?
I think when the USCCB started out trying to solve a medical care issue through government, and erroneously called it a right, tremendous damage was done rather than true economic expansion of health care availability, which of course all of us would agree would be desireable. I wish everyone always started off with the presumption that nothing other than a God given right is free, and anything characterized otherwise will be counterproductive and very expensive.
One more time:
The differences among persons belong to God’s plan, who wills that we hould need one another. These differences should encourage charity.
If the really poor and hungry are still really poor and hungry after you have poured alot of money towards their cause…then someone in the middle is taking the money. Watch for this and pray about it…it is happening alot.
catharina;6486632:
.One more time:
The differences among persons belong to God’s plan, who wills that we should need one another. These differences should encourage charity
If the really poor and hungry are still really poor and hungry after you have poured alot of money towards their cause…then someone in the middle is taking the money. Watch for this and pray about it…it is happening alot.
Do you understand that as Catholics,
we are called to practice charity in a most specific way?
The issue of “find that criminal middle man” is not our priority.
We are to understand, accept and support the preferential option for the poor.
We are to give charity the highest priority in living our faith.
jewells17;6486665:
No we don’t understand that at all. We are called to charity that does cut out the middle man that is DISHONEST…and if you like him there…that is your problem and speaks volumes. We stand apart from you.Do you understand that as Catholics,
we are called to practice charity in a most specific way?
The issue of “find that criminal middle man” is not our priority.
We are to understand, accept and support the preferential option for the poor.
We are to give charity the highest priority in living our faith.
jewells17;6486665:
Yes, I get it. Thank you for posting.Do you understand that as Catholics,
we are called to practice charity in a most specific way?
The issue of “find that criminal middle man” is not our priority.
We are to understand, accept and support the preferential option for the poor.
We are to give charity the highest priority in living our faith.
No we don’t understand that at all. We are called to charity that does cut out the middle man that is DISHONEST…and if you like him there…that is your problem and speaks volumes. We stand apart from you.jewells17
jewellsMany of us don’t feel that way and don’t judge him regarding his spiritual journey. We are all praying for him alot and he may come back to the Catholic Church. I think he will and we love him and his thirst for truth…which will eventually lead him back to Catholicism. He is so gifted and I pray he use his gift wisely. Everyone in my church that speaks of Beck…loves Beck. Alot of people want to start 912 groups in our area. We have four or five so far and they are still growing.
Yes, I have seen this too. It breaks my heart.I did not check the link provided but can offer my experience - for what it is worth.
Parishes are lined up along a spectrum from liberal(unorthadox) to conservative (orthadox). In the midwest US, where I reside, the churches that are liberal have a general tendency to promote social justice beyond what is normal. They need to “fill the gap” so to speak after rejecting some church teaching.
I started noticing this in my parish (very liberal) about 12 years ago. I visit other parishes in the area every month now to keep perspective.
My parish is very big on social justice. At the same time, I have suffered for years hearing the miracles in the Old Testament and New Testament watered down and ridiculed in the homily. I have heard the current pope seriously denounced, again, in the homily. You do not want to hear what I have experienced at this parish.
Again, this is a parish that is very big on social justice.
Have you seen this pattern?
You misunderstand many things. Glen Beck is arguing against a Socialist system of government and I agree with him. If you think that when charity cannot take care of the needs of the poor that society (the government) must, then you are a Socialist. You believe that it is society’s responsibility to take care of people’s needs. That is the definition of Socialism. Your post is a prime example of what Glen Beck is talking about. When you talk about “Social justice”, you are really advocating a Socialist society.jewells
I was unfamilar with the term 9 12 group, so of course I Googled it and see it on Beck’s web site.
I can understand how this would be very appealing…
9 Principles, 12 Values
The 9 Principles
America is a nation of good people founded on principles that ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL. This is good. All means ALL - of course at that time it only meant free men who owned land - happily today we see this in a larger sense (I hope) because this is what the Catholic Church teaches.
- America Is Good.
Who can argue with this!
- I believe in God and He is the Center of my Life.
This is a great - I think it would be a great thing to strive for.
- I must always try to be a more honest person than I was yesterday.
Well - if parents are not caring properly for their children, then no - the welfare of the child must take priority.
- The family is sacred. My spouse and I are the ultimate authority, not the government.
And Justice must be blind, and all should also have equal protection under the law.
- If you break the law you pay the penalty. Justice is blind and no one is above it.
I have a right to life, but you don’t? Well I think we all have these rights. It is the common good that is the underlying teaching of the Catholic Church in Social Justice - you might consider looking into where the difference lies in the way this is presented vs the way the Church might express this.
- I have a right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, but there is no guarantee of equal results.
That right to life is not charity. You may see it as charity but when your charity can not meet the needs of the poor society must also respond - this is an appropriate roll of society as spelled out by the Catholic Church.
- I work hard for what I have and I will share it with who I want to. Government cannot force me to be charitable.
This one honestly almost makes me laugh - this same crowd called anyone who disagreed with the previous administration un-American - so it is only un-American to disagree with those who you would disagree with anyway? ----
- It is not un-American for me to disagree with authority or to share my personal opinion.
We are the government. We vote for them, you may not have voted for the ones currently in office but the majority did - you can vote next time and if enough people agree with you then your your representative will be in office
- The government works for me. I do not answer to them, they answer to me.
The 12 Values
Let me make a suggestion for these 9 12 groups ----
- Honesty
- Reverence
- Hope
- Thrift
- Humility
- Charity
- Sincerity
- Moderation
- Hard Work
- Courage
- Personal Responsibility
- Gratitude
Consider instead a 10 - 7 group
Study the 10 commandments and the 7 Themes of Catholic Social Teaching
Chose a priest or master catechist to lead the discussions instead of an entertainer who hawks gold and fear.
Honestly this really concerns me - and I hope that someone in authority in the Church stands up and addresses this so that those who can be led astray by such nonsense can look to the Church for leadership not an entertainer.
I will pray for you jewells - please consider seeking out some good Catholic reading.
God Bless,