Glenn Beck says to run away from churches who preach social justice?

[Biggie]

To do him justice, here is Bill Donohue of the Catholic League complete response on the issue.

Catholic League president Bill Donohue weighs in on the flap over Glenn Beck’s comment that people should leave their church if it is promoting “social justice”:

Glenn Beck has been slammed all week for his flip remark, and some have accused him of being anti-Christian. Let’s examine what he said.

Beck said that “social justice” and “economic justice” are “code words.” Of course they are: they are code for economic redistribution. “Pro-life” is also a code word—it means anti-abortion. For the record, the Catholic Church embraces both a social justice and pro-life position. It is pro-union, believes in universal health care, promotes a “preferential option for the poor,” and is opposed to abortion, assisted suicide and embryonic stem cell research.

Many are hammering Beck for saying, “Am I advising people to leave their church? Yes!” A closer read of what he said shows he followed that quip with, “If I am going to Jeremiah Wright’s church. If you have a priest that is pushing social justice, go find another parish.”

Beck didn’t say Christians should abandon their religion. He recommended shopping around to find a more conservative parish if one is dissatisfied with hearing left-wing sermons. Nothing new about that. In the Catholic Church, there are priests who are stridently left-wing and stridently right-wing; many parishioners shop accordingly. Protestants shop by leaving one denomination for another. And so on.

Some of those who have criticized Beck have done so in a sincere way. Others are just phonies. Just yesterday, we dealt with an issue which is far more serious than a sarcastic remark—we called out a radical feminist leader for branding pro-life Catholic congressman Bart Stupak “un-American.” And the day before we protested news stories accusing the bishops of “polluting” the health care debate. But we heard nothing from the social justice crowd about these matters. Wonder why.

catholicleague.org/release.php?id=1793

 

[Ella]

Bill Donahue’s opinion is his own. I don’t believe in shopping for Churches. Parishes, maybe. But not Churches. And again, he is Mormon. I don’t believe this is an ad-hominem because his faith, and his leaving our faith, directly impacts his point of view in this matter.

 

[Ella]

Just to put it in a plain way, I don’t trust him. I think his statements get closer and closer to mandating heresy, and since he is a heretic, that doesn’t surprise me.

 

[Mea_Culpa]

The Catechism of the Catholic Church says:

1928 Society ensures social justice when it provides the conditions that allow associations or individuals to obtain what is their due, according to their nature and their vocation. Social justice is linked to the common good and the exercise of authority.

Social justice is part of Catholic teaching. Glen Beck telling people to leave their church if it espouses social justice is tantamount to telling people to leave the Catholic Church (as apparently he did).

I’m sure any faithful Catholic would listen to the Church and not to Glen Beck, so I don’t expect to see a mass exodus away from the Church … but when voices in the secular culture attack the Church in this manner, it is important that there be a response. (And not justification, as some people who list their religion as Catholic have been doing in this thread.)

Jesus did not preach a gospel of greed, selfishness, and individualism - he preached a gospel of love of God and love of neighbor, of sacrifice, helping “the least of these brethren” - the hungry, the homeless, the imprisoned (most of whom are presumably in prison because they committed crimes - but we are still to care for them). Jesus didn’t come to call the righteous, but sinners. We as members of the Body of Christ are called to imitate Christ. The Church has established hospitals, soup kitchens, missions, orphanages, homes for pregnant girls, and all kinds of other social programs down through the ages. The reason is because that is what Christ commanded us to do - care for people, especially the weak and the marginalized. Some ignorant clown telling people they should leave the Church because of its social justice programs is a real attack on the fundamental nature of the Church. Anybody defending him should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[Biggie]

Just to put it in a plain way, I don’t trust him. I think his statements get closer and closer to mandating heresy, and since he is a heretic, that doesn’t surprise me.

As you will. I gave you the opportunity and you have selected.

 

[Biggie]

The Catechism of the Catholic Church says:

Social justice is part of Catholic teaching. Glen Beck telling people to leave their church if it espouses social justice is tantamount to telling people to leave the Catholic Church (as apparently he did).

No, he did not.

I’m sure any faithful Catholic would listen to the Church and not to Glen Beck, so I don’t expect to see a mass exodus away from the Church … but when voices in the secular culture attack the Church in this manner, it is important that there be a response. (And not justification, as some people who list their religion as Catholic have been doing in this thread.)

This was not an attack on the Church.

And trying to elevate one’s Catholicism by defaming another’s is schoolyard, and hardly Catholic. You followed this screed with a paen to virtue. I would assume chief among them would be charity. And was that consistent with this? So frequently, when the term “social justice” is used, I hear someone describing what he or she is going to make someone else do. But the real challenge is being just ourselves first, is it not? If each of us were just ourselves, removing the beam from our own eye, as it were, true social justice would be a certainty. That is what I hear Our Lord say.

Personally, I like fairness. It’s a little easier than charity but a sure sign of it.

 

[Gift_from_God]

You want to talk about anti-Catholicism? THAT’S anti-Catholicism. Social justice was first coined by Jesuit Luigi Taparelli

 

[Chele16]

The Church has established hospitals, soup kitchens, missions, orphanages, homes for pregnant girls, and all kinds of other social programs down through the ages.

Mea Culpa, you are right on. This is the role of the Church and its members…not the government and not atheist groups who include support for abortion, same sex marriage, etc. as part of ‘social justice.’ That is the distinction being made here. I am not defending Glenn Beck, I’m just trying to help clarify the argument. I think it’s important that we as Catholics know what is contained in the Encyclicals so we know the true social teaching of the Church, as well as the social ills that can result if these teachings are corrupted. Forget Glenn Beck - this is an important opportunity for us as Catholics to study Church teaching on these matters so that we can identify those corruptions. (is that a word? )

From Centesimus Annus by Pope John Paul II:

“… there can be no genuine solution of the “social question” apart from the Gospel…”

"…A person who is deprived of something he can call “his own”, and of the possibility of earning a living through his own initiative, comes to depend on the social machine and on those who control it. This makes it much more difficult for him to recognize his dignity as a person, and hinders progress towards the building up of an authentic human community.

In contrast, from the Christian vision of the human person there necessarily follows a correct picture of society. According to Rerum novarum and the whole social doctrine of the Church, the social nature of man is not completely fulfilled in the State, but is realized in various intermediary groups, beginning with the family and including economic, social, political and cultural groups which stem from human nature itself and have their own autonomy, always with a view to the common good. This is what I have called the “subjectivity” of society which, together with the subjectivity of the individual, was cancelled out by “Real Socialism”…"

A listing of the Papal Encyclicals regarding Social Teaching can be found here : bellarmineveritasministry.org/resources/

Just to put it in a plain way, I don’t trust him. I think his statements get closer and closer to mandating heresy, and since he is a heretic, that doesn’t surprise me.

Ella, some of the things I hear him say make me very uncomfortable as well. All the more reason for us Catholics to study up and have answers ready for those in his rather large audience who may be misled.

Peace to you all.

 

[Via_Dolorosa]

Let’s examine the website you have linked (since it is a little less well known than the Huffington Post, which you cited earlier).

First, it gives and then decries the opinion of Bill Donohue of the Catholic League, and also attempts to smear him with a sideswipe along the way:

Second, Beck said that if you drill down on a church’s website that contains the code words “social justice” you will more than likely be two clicks away from arriving at a linked site that advocates progressive or liberal causes in some way. Let’s test his theory using the site you provided.

The site you have pointed to here, in criticizing Beck makes his point. The lead banner on the site says “Social Justice”. Scanning down the site as you suggest, reveals that it:

opposes the conservative reform of text books,
supports government takeover of health care,
supports legalization of illegal immigrants,
opposes the health insurance industry,
opposes the Bush administration’s use of interrogation,
supports lesbian girls who attempted to attend their high school prom,
supports the Palestinian perspective on the middle east,
supports Holder’s hiring of attorney who defended terrorists pro bono,
targets and derides Fox News

Some of the linked sites from this location are:
AFL-CIO NOW
Air America
AMERICAblog
Daily Kos
Feministe
Feministing
Huffington Post
Hullabaloo
Left Foot Forward
Media Matters
Open Left
Salon’s War Room
Science Progress
Seeing the Forest
SEIU
Sunlight Foundation
Swampland
Ta-Nehisi Coates
Talk Left
Talking Points Memo
The Conscience of a Liberal
War Room

So within a couple clicks, we have gone from “Social Justice” to support of abortion, homosexual marriage, and a shopping list of left causes. In supporting abortion, for example, some of these sites have organized for radical action against Forty Days for Life by enlisting escorts to take women to abortion clinics and are vocally anti-Catholic. In what way can these be tagged as consistently Catholic causes, while Beck is being characterized by you as “anti-Catholic”?

Beck’s point is made by you, and the problem he is pointing out is that in the context of a sermon, few people may really understand that this is the meaning of “social justice” and if they do not personally adhere to these causes, they need to change the venue of their worship.

Could you explain your last statement. Are you saying that people or for that matter churches who aspouse social justice are in favor of the rant you just posted?

 

[TheresaLS]

It is not Glenn Beck that is misleading us…it is the Obama administration. As we sit here and blame Beck the Obama administation is putting us all at risk…so please wake up and see the smoke and mirrors…!!!

 

[Biggie]

Could you explain your last statement. Are you saying that people or for that matter churches who aspouse social justice are in favor of the rant you just posted?

Rant is a loaded characterization; the fact that I am responding is not to imply I accept it.

Allow me to ask you, since you directed us to the web site thinkprogress.org. It has a specific focus on social justice and publishes articles under that banner. Are you therefore saying that churches which espouse social justice are in favor of those perspectives?

Specifically, samples from the page that day had the following perspective:

opposes the conservative reform of text books,
supports government takeover of health care,
supports legalization of illegal immigrants,
opposes the health insurance industry,
opposes the Bush administration’s use of interrogation,
supports lesbian girls who attempted to attend their high school prom,
supports the Palestinian perspective on the middle east,
supports Holder’s hiring of attornies who defended terrorists pro bono,
targets and derides Fox News

 

[MarionC]

Theresa, I could not agree more! I have read most of the comments, and the diatribes against Beck are astounding. Bill Donohue described with clarity what Beck said. Many people on this forum are displeased with their priests for one reason or another and sometimes the solution is to find another parish.

Yet in this case, Beck is being cast as the anti-Christ for saying it! You are spot on. Know who the real enemy is. It is not Glenn Beck.

 

[TheresaLS]

Theresa, I could not agree more! I have read most of the comments, and the diatribes against Beck are astounding. Bill Donohue described with clarity what Beck said. Many people on this forum are displeased with their priests for one reason or another and sometimes the solution is to find another parish.

Yet in this case, Beck is being cast as the anti-Christ for saying it! You are spot on. Know who the real enemy is. It is not Glenn Beck.

Thank you!! Right now the administration is targeting Jason Altmire…MoveOn.Org will be in my area to do a little arm twisting. So while we are lamenting Mr Beck this administration will do what it wants at will…

 

[Via_Dolorosa]

The White House is using anyone and anything to divert our attention away from the issues…

Thank you Mr. Obama for leading us away from Mr. Beck. He is very dangerous to our faith and Church for which you hold in such high regard. Oh…the hope and change!!!

How did the White House insinuate itself in this conversation?

 

[Via_Dolorosa]

Help. Can someone tell me how to respond to a quote line by line. I’d like to be able to do that. Thanks in advance.

 

[Convert66]

Via,

To respond line-by-line you can type " quote ]", insert the text you wish to answer and then close the quote with " /quote ]" —minus the extra spaces and quotation marks I added in order to demonstrate. I hope that helps.

 

[portarica]

You are not being responsive. I have demonstrated that by drilling down on a “social justice” web site provided by the OP, we arrive very shortly at support for abortion, militancy against pro-life efforts, anti-Catholic bias, support for homosexual marriage and a myriad other liberal causes offensive to many Catholics.

Have you demonstrated where that is incorrect?
In what way is Beck anti-Catholic in his observations, when by following “social justice” links we arrive at anti-Catholicism?

Look at similar results if you use your reasoning. Most references to something use a link to something contrary or different.

The problem becomes when people using the links can not separate the wheat from the chaff.

You are basically saying that all social justice is bad because some social justice sites have links to other sites that may be contrary to what you believe is social justice.

But lets say we look at the links on right wing causes, it doesn’t take long before you are in Idaho looking at Nazi stuff. Does that mean conservatives are Nazi’s? Well under your form of reasoning it does.

That type of argument is using the fallacy of guilt by association.

What do you think about people who say catholics are perverts because every time you turn around some abuse scandal is breaking? Are we? No we know that is not true. But if you use the number of instances that issue turns up on the internet, one might think so. But does the frequency of something untrue make it true?

I run away from beck because he spews hate and gets his jollies from being offensive. I tend toward the conservative like the Catholic Buckley boys and their ilk.

Peace

 

[Biggie]

Look at similar results if you use your reasoning. Most references to something use a link to something contrary or different.

The problem becomes when people using the links can not separate the wheat from the chaff.

You are basically saying that all social justice is bad because some social justice sites have links to other sites that may be contrary to what you believe is social justice.

But lets say we look at the links on right wing causes, it doesn’t take long before you are in Idaho looking at Nazi stuff. Does that mean conservatives are Nazi’s? Well under your form of reasoning it does.

That type of argument is using the fallacy of guilt by association.

What do you think about people who say catholics are perverts because every time you turn around some abuse scandal is breaking? Are we? No we know that is not true. But if you use the number of instances that issue turns up on the internet, one might think so. But does the frequency of something untrue make it true?

I run away from beck because he spews hate and gets his jollies from being offensive. I tend toward the conservative like the Catholic Buckley boys and their ilk.

Peace

You have used your reasoning and come to the conclusion that a site with a social justice perspective that carries a blog roll to encourage traffic to like minded sites is directing traffic to those sites to discourage their viewpoints? Please. Step away from what you have written and read it again. That’s really your position? Should I also use my reasoning to conclude that the social justice perspective supplied on the site is not really its social justice perspective?

I do not agree with the social justice perspective of the site used as an example line by line, in any respect, nor do I believe I am obliged to as a Catholic. If my pastor directed me in a homily to consult that site for social justice information, I would be scandalized by that. I would take issue with my pastor. If the issue could not be resolved, I would not attend his Mass. That is all Beck is suggesting, what I would do anyway.

 

[josephdavid]

It is agreed that in our time the common good is chiefly guaranteed when personal rights and duties are maintained. The chief concern of civil authorities must therefore be to ensure that these rights are acknowledged, respected, coordinated with other rights, defended and promoted, so that in this way each one may more easily carry out his duties. For “to safeguard the inviolable rights of the human person, and to facilitate the fulfillment of his duties, should be the chief duty of every public authority.”
~ Peace on Earth, Pope JohnXXIII

The Catholic tradition calls for] a society of free work of enterprise and of participation. Such a society is not directed against the market, but demands that the market be appropriately controlled by the forces of society and by the State, so as to guarantee that the basic needs of the whole of society are satisfied.
~Pope John Paul II, The 100th Year

Governments must provide regulations and a system of taxation which encourage firms to preserve the environment, employ disadvantaged workers, and create jobs in depressed areas. Managers and stockholders should not be torn between their responsibilities to their organizations and their responsibilities toward society as a whole.
~ Economics Justice for All

Society as a whole, acting through public and private institutions, has the moral responsibility to enhance human dignity and protect human rights. In addition to the clear responsibility of private institutions, government has an essential responsibility in this area. This does not mean that government has the primary or exclusive role, but it does have a positive moral responsibility in safeguarding human rights and ensuring that the minimum conditions of human dignity are met for all. In a democracy, government is a means by which we can act together to protect what is important to us and to promote our common values.
~Economic Justice for All, USCCB 1986

The complex circumstances of our day make it necessary for public authority to intervene more often in social, economic and cultural matters in order to bring about favorable conditions which will give more effective help to citizens and groups in their free pursuit of man’s total well-being.
~Second Vatican Council

Matthew 25
usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew25.htm

 

[Michaeljc4]

As I recall when I listened to Mr. Beck’s original remarks, he mentioned both social justice and economic justice. I imagine that one’s definition of social justice will color their response to Mr. Beck’s charge. If, by social justice, he meant the specfic teachings of the Catholic Church as related to issues like abortion, the death penalty, the dignity of workers, support of labor, etc., he’s slapping the Church in the face.

If, however, he meant ‘social justice’ as it has (unfortunately) come to be associated with American ‘progressivism’ or liberalism, he has a point. “Economic justice” has much more to do with Marxism, collectivism, and income redistribution than it does the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church. It is difficult to disentangle our Church’s actual teachings from the way these teachings have been used to further a very liberal political agenda. With that said, the Church has taken some positions that one could, quite legitmately, use to support a argument for redistribution (I am thinking of the US Bishops pastoral letter Economic Justice for All, written in the 1980s). I admit, I haven’t read this for a few years, so my memory may not be as accurate as I would like it to be.

Personally, I think his remarks were ham-handed. He used a sledge hammer when a scalpel would have been more effective.