Glenn Beck says to run away from churches who preach social justice?

[catharina]

As for Social Justice, take a look at the Code of Canon Law.
For example Canon 222, section 2:

Canon 222 §2.  They are also obliged to promote social justice and, mindful of the precept of the Lord, to assist the poor from their own resources. 


Commentary

    Christians are bound by a double obligation of promoting social justice by which the systemic injustices in society are addressed and of meeting the practical needs of the poor.  The latter obligation is specifically tied in the canon to a precept of the Lord. 


    This canon is not found in Lex Eccelsiae Fundamentalis .  It was added after the 1981 Commission meeting.  De Populo Dei (c. 38) did cover much of the same concerns, although no mention was made of the dominical precept and the language of the canon was more diffuse.  There is no direct source in the texts of Vatican II, although the substance of the canon clearly reflects conciliar doctrine. 


Social Justice

    Christian social teaching has long presented the dignity of the human person as fundamental to the social order.  During the twentieth century various popes emphasized personal dignity over against the pressures in society that would deny or restrict that dignity and the rights that flow from it.  In the latter part of the century, Catholic social thought has increasingly pointed to the disorders in the social systems themselves as the object of justice critiques.  It is not enough to show charity toward a person who is impoverished; it is necessary to do something about the social system that produces the conditions of poverty.  Justice in society extends beyond relations between individuals and includes the whole fabric of societal relationships.  Vatican II and recent popes have also stressed the global aspects of social justice, for the interdependence of peoples is an integral element of any social system today.

much more prior to this and following this … at:

74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:mRA5JM5zOx8J:www.elephantsinthelivingroom.com/Canon_222.doc+code+of+canon+law,+social+justice,+code+222&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

The Catholic Church is definitive in her teachings on Social Justice as a virtue.
Glenn Beck left the Catholic Church and its teachings to marry a “hot” mormon woman.

I don’t expect Glenn Beck to teach me anything about Social Justice.
Feel free to check out the Catechism of the Catholic Church too.

Glenn Beck abandoned all of these teachings.
That’s not a secret.

 

[Arandur]

I don’t think anyone is arguing that social justice is a bad thing. I don’t think even Glenn Beck was.

What I’ve observed, entirely independently of Glenn Beck, is that many Catholics who center themselves around a social justice movement actually often really become more consumed by a Leftist/Progressive political agenda than Christ, caring more about political ideology than Church teaching. Many in my experience depart far from the Church’s definition of social justice and its other teachings about society (like the principle of subsidiarity). This is a real danger. In fact, so dangerous that indeed, many Catholics do end up supporting or joining forces with abortion movements, contraceptive approaches, amoral influences, and humanistic, statist groups.

I think “social justice” as a term has unfortunately in the U.S. come to be misused and redefined by these groups who are really more politically-ideological than Catholic. Nuns included. It does raise red flags for me because I’ve seen this too often.

Social justice should be about helping to create the society that helps people become their best (spiritually) and provides for their basic material needs and human dignity and justice. The political debate on both sides, when it is genuine, is really about trying to achieve this.

 

[Convert66]

catharina:

Unless YOU are writing flat-out satire, I can’t imagine what you’re saying about Stewart.

Clue?

Plain and simply…Stewart’s caricature is moronic, sophomoric, inane and as clueless as the progressive/liberal “Catholics” here bearing false witness against Glenn Beck, while casting aspersions on anyone who happens to agree with any hint of his analysis (which, by the way, would be agreement with objective historical facts, such as I listed above).

It is rather ironic to read that no one should glean their “news” from Beck (despite the fact that his is a commentary, not a news program) since he is a “former Catholic” and now Mormon, while they praise Jon Stewart’s “excellent points” despite his atheism. Progress, anyone?

In the latter part of the century, Catholic social thought has increasingly pointed to the disorders in the social systems themselves as the object of justice critiques. It is not enough to show charity toward a person who is impoverished; it is necessary to do something about the social system that produces the conditions of poverty.

Any fair observer, then, would have to take this to mean that the progressive welfare states of Europe, Canada and, to lesser degrees, the US should be dismantled, since the “war on poverty” and “model cities programs”, for example, have exacerbated social problems like illegitimacy, illiteracy, crime, abortion, and promiscuity. You want to see progressive “social justice” in action? Look at Detroit.

All my best…

 

[catharina]

catharina:

Plain and simply…Stewart’s caricature is moronic, sophomoric, inane and as clueless as the progressive/liberal “Catholics” here bearing false witness against Glenn Beck, while casting aspersions on anyone who happens to agree with any hint of his analysis (which, by the way, would be agreement with objective historical facts, such as I listed above).

It is rather ironic to read that no one should glean their “news” from Beck (despite the fact that his is a commentary, not a news program) since he is a “former Catholic” and now Mormon, while they praise Jon Stewart’s “excellent points” despite his atheism. Progress, anyone?

Any fair observer, then, would have to take this to mean that the progressive welfare states of Europe, Canada and, to lesser degrees, the US should be dismantled, since the “war on poverty” and “model cities programs”, for example, have exacerbated social problems like illegitimacy, illiteracy, crime, abortion, and promiscuity. You want to see progressive “social justice” in action? Look at Detroit.

All my best…

Listening to Beck himself (via video of Stewart’s within this thread) I hear a former Catholic, Beck, telling people that if their priest talks of social justice they should flee the parish and inform their bishop. Wacky. Worthless. BIASED.

I’m a totally conservative Catholic who has been active in pro-life work for more than 40 years. I have served the poor, both personally and professionally, for my entire life. The opinions of Glenn Beck are worth nothing to me. As for this thread, I always look at threads that speak of social justice. Social Justice is a VIRTUE within the Catholic faith. The end.

 

[Havard]

I wrote, in the private message that I posted this crazy video with Jon Stewart, that I thought Jon actuallly addressed how much of a buffoon Glenn Beck is. We can take what he says to either extreme. Jon Stewart takes it this extreme. He is not the only one that takes things to extremes. Please fact check the news sources that you favor. I think we all may be in for a surprise if we follow the money.

Are you calling Beck’s show a news source?

I get my news from Google’s online feeds mainly (AP, Reuters, etc) and as for opinion shows, I prefer the Sunday roundtables. Specifically, Meet the Press, This Week, and Fox News Sunday, because they all include intelligent conservative and liberal POV’s. Oh, and I subscribe to The Economist magazine, which leans right.

I think Jon Stewart’s show is dangerous much in the same way Glenn Beck’s is. Sadly people watch them and parrot them, rather than draw their own conclusions… often when it’s not even meant to be taken seriously. Okay, well they are slightly different: Stewart is a comedian that comments on the news, Beck is a commentator that tries to do a comedy routine while commenting on the news.

 

[Via_Dolorosa]

More food for thought.
crooksandliars.com/node/35717/print

 

[Ella]

Listening to Beck himself (via video of Stewart’s within this thread) I hear a former Catholic, Beck, telling people that if their priest talks of social justice they should flee the parish and inform their bishop. Wacky. Worthless. BIASED.

I’m a totally conservative Catholic who has been active in pro-life work for more than 40 years. I have served the poor, both personally and professionally, for my entire life. The opinions of Glenn Beck are worth nothing to me. As for this thread, I always look at threads that speak of social justice. Social Justice is a VIRTUE within the Catholic faith. The end.

Exactly, Catharina. Exactly.

 

[kbkam]

More food for thought.
crooksandliars.com/node/35717/print

Read the article-
-did a bit of research on ‘Sojourners’
-from their own website noted they are all about leftist causes; wanted to be sure, so I
-decided to ‘follow the money’ and went to discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=7018
-confirmed my opinion of leftist leaning and at the bottom of their page, saw ‘supported by’
-Open Society Institute-clicked on them discoverthenetworks.org/funderprofile.asp?fndid=5181&category=79
-and found George Soros discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=977

In conclusion of this ‘tutorial’, and to support the principle of knowing your source; from Sojourners, it took only 2 clicks to find Soros-self proclaimed puppet master of the push to turn America into a socialist country. Read about Soros and you’ll find dozens of groups he founded/supports, including Catholic groups, which are front groups for his goals.

(My trusted source is Discover the Networks, a site to follow the money, developed by David Howowitz, a former leftist who knows the inner workings of the left and determined they weren’t his values and now wants to expose them.)

Reminds me of the front groups in the Cold War era, clandestinely supported by Communists bent on overthrowing our country from within. Most members were the useful idiots-sincerely wanting to change whatever specific policy, not knowing their ‘bedfellows’ and not realizing they were just cogs in a wheel going in a direction to destroy our freedoms.

Someone mentioned Subsidiarity, so I looked that up and found
acton.org/publications/randl/rl_article_200.php
To be consistent, I tried to link to people/principles to which I’d object and could not find any negatives.

The Principle of Subsidiarity
by David A. Bosnich
One of the key principles of Catholic social thought is known as the principle of subsidiarity. This tenet holds that nothing should be done by a larger and more complex organization which can be done as well by a smaller and simpler organization. In other words, any activity which can be performed by a more decentralized entity should be. This principle is a bulwark of limited government and personal freedom. It conflicts with the passion for centralization and bureaucracy characteristic of the Welfare State.
This is why Pope John Paul II took the “social assistance state” to task in his 1991 encyclical Centesimus Annus. The Pontiff wrote that the Welfare State was contradicting the principle of subsidiarity by intervening directly and depriving society of its responsibility. This “leads to a loss of human energies and an inordinate increase of public agencies which are dominated more by bureaucratic ways of thinking than by concern for serving their clients and which are accompanied by an enormous increase in spending.”

This bring us back to the topic of the forum-Social justice as seen by conservatives VS progressives (thank you Convert 66, for the comprehensive synopsis of progressivism). I’ve always believed that if you outsource your good deeds you shouldn’t get the credit. It’s not only about doing good for the beneficiary, but also about the action of the deed which enriches the doer.

IMHO

 

[RWMorris]

Honoring all persons’ right to life, liberty, and equal justice before the law, will promote so-called “social justice” to far greater degree than any government program ever created.

 

[RWMorris]

Listening to Beck himself (via video of Stewart’s within this thread) I hear a former Catholic, Beck, telling people that if their priest talks of social justice they should flee the parish and inform their bishop. Wacky. Worthless. BIASED.

I’m a totally conservative Catholic who has been active in pro-life work for more than 40 years. I have served the poor, both personally and professionally, for my entire life. The opinions of Glenn Beck are worth nothing to me. As for this thread, I always look at threads that speak of social justice. Social Justice is a VIRTUE within the Catholic faith. The end.

If you are promoting a personal devotion to social justice, then you are virtuous. But if you are promoting a government program as a way of providing social justice, there is no virtue in such actions. Government sponsored “social justice” programs act to diminish the very foundation of social justice, the basic human right to life, liberty, and justice before the law. Government sponsored “social justice” programs are an oxymoron. They are immoral.

 

[catharina]

If you are promoting a personal devotion to social justice, then you are virtuous. But if you are promoting a government program as a way of providing social justice, there is no virtue in such actions. Government sponsored “social justice” programs act to diminish the very foundation of social justice, the basic human right to life, liberty, and justice before the law. Government sponsored “social justice” programs are an oxymoron. They are immoral.

You are in error.
We have an obligation to change society.
Please refer to Post 261.

"As for Social Justice, take a look at the Code of Canon Law.
For example Canon 222, section 2:

Canon 222 §2. They are also obliged to promote social justice and, mindful of the precept of the Lord, to assist the poor from their own resources. 


Commentary

Christians are bound by a double obligation of promoting social justice by which the systemic injustices in society are addressed and of meeting the practical needs of the poor. The latter obligation is specifically tied in the canon to a precept of the Lord."

 

[catharina]

Also, from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

"PART THREE
LIFE IN CHRIST
SECTION ONE
MAN’S VOCATION LIFE IN THE SPIRIT

CHAPTER TWO
THE HUMAN COMMUNION

ARTICLE 3
SOCIAL JUSTICE

1928 Society ensures social justice when it provides the conditions that allow associations or individuals to obtain what is their due, according to their nature and their vocation. Social justice is linked to the common good and the exercise of authority.

I. RESPECT FOR THE HUMAN PERSON

1929 Social justice can be obtained only in respecting the transcendent dignity of man. The person represents the ultimate end of society, which is ordered to him:

What is at stake is the dignity of the human person, whose defense and promotion have been entrusted to us by the Creator, and to whom the men and women at every moment of history are strictly and responsibly in debt.35
1930 Respect for the human person entails respect for the rights that flow from his dignity as a creature. These rights are prior to society and must be recognized by it. They are the basis of the moral legitimacy of every authority: by flouting them, or refusing to recognize them in its positive legislation, a society undermines its own moral legitimacy.36 If it does not respect them, authority can rely only on force or violence to obtain obedience from its subjects. It is the Church’s role to remind men of good will of these rights and to distinguish them from unwarranted or false claims.

1931 Respect for the human person proceeds by way of respect for the principle that "everyone should look upon his neighbor (without any exception) as ‘another self,’ above all bearing in mind his life and the means necessary for living it with dignity."37 No legislation could by itself do away with the fears, prejudices, and attitudes of pride and selfishness which obstruct the establishment of truly fraternal societies. Such behavior will cease only through the charity that finds in every man a “neighbor,” a brother.

1932 The duty of making oneself a neighbor to others and actively serving them becomes even more urgent when it involves the disadvantaged, in whatever area this may be. "As you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me."38

1933 This same duty extends to those who think or act differently from us. The teaching of Christ goes so far as to require the forgiveness of offenses. He extends the commandment of love, which is that of the New Law, to all enemies.39 Liberation in the spirit of the Gospel is incompatible with hatred of one’s enemy as a person, but not with hatred of the evil that he does as an enemy."

 

[RWMorris]

In the latter part of the century, Catholic social thought has increasingly pointed to the disorders in the social systems themselves as the object of justice critiques. It is not enough to show charity toward a person who is impoverished; it is necessary to do something about the social system that produces the conditions of poverty.

This is truly a virtuous goal, dismantling a truly dysfunctional “social justice” system that has actually increased the very behaviors that lead to poverty and all its symptoms. I’ve listened to so-called “social justice” homilies, especially when I was an Episcopalian. They are only thinly disguised “pulpit commercials” for progressivism. I agree with Glenn Beck. "Run!"

 

[RWMorris]

You are in error.
We have an obligation to change society.
Please refer to Post 261.

"As for Social Justice, take a look at the Code of Canon Law.
For example Canon 222, section 2:

Canon 222 §2. They are also obliged to promote social justice and, mindful of the precept of the Lord, to assist the poor from their own resources. 
 
 
Commentary
 
Christians are bound by a double obligation of promoting social justice by which the systemic injustices in society are addressed and of meeting the practical needs of the poor. The latter obligation is specifically tied in the canon to a precept of the Lord."

I will repeat, and enlarge for effect:
If you are promoting a personal devotion to social justice, then you are virtuous. But if you are promoting a government program as a way of providing social justice, there is no virtue in such actions.

 

[Via_Dolorosa]

Read the article-
-did a bit of research on ‘Sojourners’
-from their own website noted they are all about leftist causes; wanted to be sure, so I
-decided to ‘follow the money’ and went to discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=7018
-confirmed my opinion of leftist leaning and at the bottom of their page, saw ‘supported by’
-Open Society Institute-clicked on them discoverthenetworks.org/funderprofile.asp?fndid=5181&category=79
-and found George Soros discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=977
I must say this is pretty shoddy detective work. You site the same site 3 times. by the way, thanks for the link. Those lefty sites sure sound dangerous to me too, especially UNICEF, St. Louis University, Georgtown (of course)((just wondering why Boston college didn’t make the cut)) and The Thomas Merton Center.

In conclusion of this ‘tutorial’, and to support the principle of knowing your source; from Sojourners, it took only 2 clicks to find Soros-self proclaimed puppet master of the push to turn America into a socialist country. Read about Soros and you’ll find dozens of groups he founded/supports, including Catholic groups, which are front groups for his goals.

(My trusted source is Discover the Networks, a site to follow the money, developed by David Howowitz, a former leftist who knows the inner workings of the left and determined they weren’t his values and now wants to expose them.)

Reminds me of the front groups in the Cold War era, clandestinely supported by Communists bent on overthrowing our country from within. Most members were the useful idiots-sincerely wanting to change whatever specific policy, not knowing their ‘bedfellows’ and not realizing they were just cogs in a wheel going in a direction to destroy our freedoms.

Someone mentioned Subsidiarity, so I looked that up and found
acton.org/publications/randl/rl_article_200.php
To be consistent, I tried to link to people/principles to which I’d object and could not find any negatives. You edited out the best part. The guy who wrote the article doesn’t like the bishop’s position on this?

This bring us back to the topic of the forum-Social justice as seen by conservatives VS progressives (thank you Convert 66, for the comprehensive synopsis of progressivism). I’ve always believed that if you outsource your good deeds you shouldn’t get the credit. It’s not only about doing good for the beneficiary, but also about the action of the deed which enriches the doer.

IMHO

 

[catharina]

I will repeat, and enlarge for effect:
If you are promoting a personal devotion to social justice, then you are virtuous. But if you are promoting a government program as a way of providing social justice, there is no virtue in such actions.

**Not all government programs are equal.
Programs that feed hungry children come to mind.
Are such programs equal to the healthcare thing that might fund abortion?
No.

There is great virtue in promoting just and charitable assistance to the poor.
Doing so is a part of my recognized obligation as a Catholic.**

PS - I’ve no idea what you heard or learned when you were Episcopalian.
I’m 64 yrs old and ALL of my formation has been as a Roman Catholic.

For Catholics, Social Justice is a VIRTUE with a personal and social component.

 

[catharina]

Via_Dolorosa:
UNICEF has firmly backed abortion since (at least) 1987.
It’s frustrating that so few people know that!

74.125.155.132/search?q=cacheEaB7tCyREMJ:www.lifeissues.org/UNICEF/unicef.htm+unicef,+abortion&cd=12&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

" … The Guidelines document openly asserts that women should have a right to abortion: “Laws should also be enacted to ensure women’s reproductive and sexual rights, including the right of independent access to reproductive and STD health information and services and means of contraception, including safe and legal abortion…” It is even suggested that girls should have the right to abortion: **“States should ensure that all women and girls of child-bearing age have…access to the available resources to…proceed with childbirth, if they so choose.”

Some of UNICEF’s most explicit advocacy for abortion rights has come through its involvement in worldwide maternal health campaigns. In 1987, UNICEF joined the Safe Motherhood Initiative (SMI), which was launched at a conference in Nairobi, Kenya. According to its website, the “Safe Motherhood Initiative is a worldwide effort that aims to reduce the number of deaths and illnesses associated with pregnancy and childbirth.” However, it became clear from its earliest moments that participants would not shy away from controversy, including controversy surrounding abortion. And perhaps this should come as no surprise, since participants include the International Planned Parenthood Federation, as well as a number of other abortion-providers and abortion-promoters, **such as the Population Council (which holds a patent on the abortion drug RU-486). UNFPA is also prominent in the Safe Motherhood Initiative. …"

 

[RWMorris]

Not all government programs are equal. Programs that feed hungry children come to mind. Are such programs equal to the healthcare thing that might fund abortion?

No.

There is great virtue in promoting just and charitable assistance to the poor. Doing so is a part of my recognized obligation as a Catholic.

I completely agree, and I salute your dedication to serving the poor. I notice that you quote the Catechism to support your view, and I agree. Nowhere in those quotes does it place the burden of caring for the poor on government, it places it where Jesus placed it, the individual.

PS - I’ve no idea what you heard or learned when you were Episcopalian.
I’m 64 yrs old and ALL of my formation has been as a Roman Catholic.

For Catholics, Social Justice is a VIRTUE with a personal and social component.

Not sure what you’re meaning. I’ll just say that I respect your 64 years as a Catholic.

 

[catharina]

I completely agree, and I salute your dedication to serving the poor. I notice that you quote the Catechism to support your view, and I agree. Nowhere in those quotes does it place the burden of caring for the poor on government, it places it where Jesus placed it, the individual.

Not sure what you’re meaning. I’ll just say that I respect your 64 years as a Catholic.

One more time, I’ll quote the Code of Canon Law (third time in this thread):

As for Social Justice, take a look at the Code of Canon Law.
For example Canon 222, section 2:

Canon 222 §2. They are also obliged to promote social justice and, mindful of the precept of the Lord, to assist the poor from their own resources. 


Commentary

Christians are bound by a **double obligation of promoting social justice** by which the systemic injustices in society are addressed and of meeting the practical needs of the poor. The latter obligation is specifically tied in the canon to a precept of the Lord. 


I mentioned your experience with the Episcopal church, because you mentioned it:

*
"I've listened to so-called "social justice" homilies, especially when I was an Episcopalian. They are only thinly disguised "pulpit commercials" for progressivism. I agree with Glenn Beck. "Run!" "*


If you are now Catholic, then what is the relevance?

 

[kbkam]

Originally Posted by kbkam View Post
Read the article-
-did a bit of research on ‘Sojourners’
-from their own website noted they are all about leftist causes; wanted to be sure, so I
-decided to ‘follow the money’ and went to discoverthenetworks.org/g…asp?grpid=7018
-confirmed my opinion of leftist leaning and at the bottom of their page, saw ‘supported by’
-Open Society Institute-clicked on them discoverthenetworks.org/f…81&category=79
-and found George Soros discoverthenetworks.org/i…asp?indid=977
Via Delorosa said
I must say this is pretty shoddy detective work. You site the same site 3 times. by the way, thanks for the link. Those lefty sites sure sound dangerous to me too, especially UNICEF, St. Louis University, Georgtown (of course)((just wondering why Boston college didn’t make the cut)) and The Thomas Merton Center.

I actually use that site because it peels back the layers and follows the money and have found no other that matches it, and the man that started it has lived the life of the organizations it exposes.

Hmmm…Great college, but the same Georgetown U which covered all references to Christ to gain the honor of Obama speaking there. Wow. Catharina already referenced UNICEF support of abortion.

Let’s see what the Thomas Merton center is doing today pittsburghendthewar.org/

Saturday, March 20

The Thomas Merton Center Antiwar Committee is joining with several local and national coalitions and networks in urging an all-out March 20 bi-coastal mobilization of all opponents of the U.S. wars and occupations. We urge support for these critical demands:
…
Co-sponsored by the Thomas Merton Center AWC, Pitt SDS (Students for a Democratic Society), Code Pink, WILPF, IVAW, and others – please let us know if your group will help build and publicize these actions and if your group should be listed as a co-sponsor.

Just 2 clicks got me there and I don’t need to research SDS, Code Pink, I already know about them. BTW, if someone wants to protest the war, so be it, but my point is all of us should watch with whom we align ourselves; they may have different goals and may end up perverting our good intentions. Good institutions could unknowingly support a group that goes against Church principles. That’s why I think it’s important to do research-‘shoddy’ or not, and remember even a stopped watch is right twice a day.

RWMorris stated my main point better than I could

… quote the Catechism to support your view, and I agree. Nowhere in those quotes does it place the burden of caring for the poor on government, it places it where Jesus placed it, the individual.

FYI

Soros and his foundations have had a hand in funding such noteworthy leftist organizations as the American Constitution Society for Law and Policy; the Tides Foundation; the Tides Center; the National Organization for Women; Feminist Majority; the American Civil Liberties Union; People for the American Way; Alliance for Justice; NARAL Pro-Choice America; America Coming Together; the Center for American Progress; Campaign for America’s Future; Amnesty International; the Sentencing Project; the Center for Community Change; the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People Legal Defense and Educational Fund; Human Rights Watch; the Prison Moratorium Project; the Malcolm X Grassroots Movement; the National Lawyers Guild; the Center for Constitutional Rights; the Coalition for an International Criminal Court; The American Prospect; MoveOn.org; Planned Parenthood; the Nation Institute; the Brennan Center for Justice; the Ms. Foundation for Women; the National Security Archive Fund; the Pacifica Foundation; Physicians for Human Rights; the Proteus Fund; the Public Citizen Foundation; the Urban Institute; the American Friends Service Committee; Catholics for a Free Choice; Human Rights First; the Independent Media Institute; MADRE; the Mexican American Legal Defense and Education Fund; the Immigrant Legal Resource Center; the National Immigration Law Center; the National Immigration Forum; the National Council of La Raza; the American Immigration Law Foundation; the Lynne Stewart Defense Committee; and the Peace and Security Funders Group.