Global warming: truth or propaganda?

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The arguments against AGW (anthropogenic global warming) don’t fit on a bumper sticker.

But here are a few places to read up:
  1. Go to www.climatechangedebate.org and sign in and just read the posts. Go back and read the debate points posted previously. The discussion gets a little acrimonious at times, but accept that. There are a lot of excellent nuggets in the discussions.
  2. Go to www.sepp.org and read the essays as well as the more-or-less weekly newsletters ( aka TWTW). You can also email Dr. S. Fred Singer who owns the site and ask him to include you on his email newsletter distribution list. He can be reached at info@sepp.org
  3. Buy a copy of “The Politically Incorrect Guide to Global Warming” by Christopher C. Horner. It’s available from Amazon or any of many other on-line book sellers.
  4. If you would like to meet many of the authors and scientists who have refuted the man-made notion of global warming, visit Google and type in " oism ddp " and that will take you to the Web page for the annual meeting coming up in Sacramento this year (different places each year) in August of the Doctors for Disaster Preparedness. The meeting is open to anyone. The cost is very modest.
  5. Visit www.junkscience.com and there are a large number of articles there on global warming.
  6. Do some research on the fact that the IPCC computer models are highly suspect. Many commentators have written about these “squishy” computer models, with their constant tweaking and the fact that the actual size of the staff doing the work is very small and that the (name removed by moderator)ut data to the model appears to be unreliable.
There is a ton of stuff out there. Please don’t just exchange accusations. Instead, start doing some reading.
 
I really don’t understand how the “fact” of global warming is just giving government or anyone else control over our lives. Personally, I don’t think global warming is a real phenomenon but I also don’t see the government outlawing all the cars, industry, and airplanes either.
What’s the harm in letting them all have their pet theory? They’ll find out soon enough it’s all not true anyway.
 
I have to laugh when people of deep religious faith and conviction suddenly become members of the “show me” state when it comes to global warming. I hate to say it but there is far more empirical evidence (which I won’t waste my time trying to collate here) for global warming than there is for the existence of God or the Real Presence, things most of us here would assign a definite ontological status. I would dare say that the factual nature of global warming is the general consensus of most scientists today, contrary opinions would be the minority. However, many will fight empircal evidence of GW to the death because it is inconvenient for their world view, politics or lifestyle.
 
Where is your proof that Mankind is the cause. I ask again. Why did we start coming out of the Last Ice Age. Was it mankind that caused this?

Just saying stuff like you just said, is just a statement that correspondingly sounds like the “Sky is Falling”. You need proof.
tell ya what, keep polluting the earth and ripping away the fossil fuels and burning them in the atmosphere, and keep on dumping toxic garbage what do you think is gonna come out of it? lovely fruit and veggies? more wildlife than before? pristine environments? lots of good old ozone to protect us? come on! the scientific research and studies backs up that we are causing a substantial contribution to global warming. we can stop it so that our future generations have something to enjoy.
 
I don’t have a car and use public transportation. Have you given up your car yet?
 
Any links to back that up?
Here’s a few more:

john-daly.com/zjiceco2.htm

mises.org/story/2571

junkscience.com/Greenhouse/index.html

weatherquestions.com/Roy-Spencer-on-global-warming.htm

US Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works from May 15, 2007:
Climate Momentum Shifting: Prominent Scientists Reverse Belief in Man-made Global Warming - Now Skeptics

From the National Post: “Bright Sun, Warm Earth - Coincidence? March 12, 2007
canada.com/nationalpost/story.html?id=551bfe58-882f-4889-ab76-5ce1e02dced7

canada.com/nationalpost/financialpost/comment/story.html?id=597d0677-2a05-47b4-b34f-b84068db11f4&p=4
 
Vaclav Klaus, president of the Czech Republic, argues in the Financial Times that ambitious environmentalism is the biggest threat to freedom, democracy, the market economy and prosperity.

Mr Klaus writes that “global warming hysteria has become a prime example of the truth versus propaganda problem” and the issue “is more about social than natural sciences and more about man and his freedom than about tenths of a degree Celsius changes in average global temperature.”

Vaclav Klaus: What is at risk is not the climate, but freedom

ft.com/cms/s/e9df7200-19c7-11dc-99c5-000b5df10621.html
The connection between environmentalism and totalitarianism is not new. Jerry Pournelle edited a science fiction anthology called The Survival of Freedom. One story, Spider Robinson’s “In the Olden Days” especially stuck with me. It’s an old man telling his grandchildren about the world he grew up in, as opposed to their appropriate-tech ecotopia: he didn’t have to walk six miles to school, he rode in a bus! and when it brought him he didn’t have to work four hours community service – why there were laws against child labor! and they had electricity 24 hours a day! You get the idea.

Another good (and less depressing) story in the collection is “Lipidlegger”.
 
Here’s a few more:

john-daly.com/zjiceco2.htm

mises.org/story/2571

junkscience.com/Greenhouse/index.html

weatherquestions.com/Roy-Spencer-on-global-warming.htm

US Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works from May 15, 2007:
Climate Momentum Shifting: Prominent Scientists Reverse Belief in Man-made Global Warming - Now Skeptics

From the National Post: “Bright Sun, Warm Earth - Coincidence? March 12, 2007
canada.com/nationalpost/story.html?id=551bfe58-882f-4889-ab76-5ce1e02dced7

canada.com/nationalpost/financialpost/comment/story.html?id=597d0677-2a05-47b4-b34f-b84068db11f4&p=4
Thanks - I’ll be sure to check these links out.
 
I really don’t understand how the “fact” of global warming is just giving government or anyone else control over our lives. Personally, I don’t think global warming is a real phenomenon but I also don’t see the government outlawing all the cars, industry, and airplanes either.
What’s the harm in letting them all have their pet theory? They’ll find out soon enough it’s all not true anyway.
The folks in government who make the rules do not “outlaw all the cars, industry and airplanes…”… what they do is impose restrictions on exhaust emissions. And … if you are in violation of the restrictions, THEY WILL SHUT YOU DOWN.

And that’s it.
 
I don’t have a car and use public transportation. Have you given up your car yet?
If I give up our 8 passenger van we can’t go to Mass. If I gave up the cars we don’t work and then we can pay our bill and eat or have a home to live in. Maybe the World Governments will pay our bills and build a Church closer to us then 8 miles. but I truly doubt it.:whistle: :whistle: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Oh, if one tree is good for a family of four with one car to clean the air, then we should be fine we have thirty trees just in the back yard and about 100 acres of woods. More then enough to provide us with our CARBON CREDITS LOL.
 
For the benefit of anyone out there who might be interested in doing some reading about the vulnerabilities in the arguments for Anthropogenic [man-made] Global Warming (AGW), here are a few more books and authors.

“Unstoppable Global Warming: Every 1,500 Years” by Dennis T. Avery and S. Fred Singer.

“Shattered Consensus: The True State of Global Warming” by Patrick J. Michaels.

“Meltdown: The Predictable Distortion of Global Warming by Scientists, Politicians, and the Media” by Patrick J. Michaels.

“The Sceptical Environmentalist: Measuring the Real State of the World” by Bjorn Lomborg.

There are more, but I don’t want to overwhelm anyone.

But seriously, if you are interested in this topic, then buy these books. Try ABEBooks for better prices.
 
…
Oh, if one tree is good for a family of four with one car to clean the air, then we should be fine we have thirty trees just in the back yard and about 100 acres of woods. More then enough to provide us with our CARBON CREDITS LOL.
well then if you have a surplus why don’t you offer to plant more trees and get paid for it by selling the carbon credits?

some places even allow tax credits for conservation easements
 
I don’t have a car and use public transportation. Have you given up your car yet?
I will the day they find a way for me negotiate mountain roads when it 10 below and snowing. Its funnt but I dnt see many Prius’s on the roads up here in the Winnter.
 
My personal view is that it is true but that it is not caused by man. The fact is that the Earth has gone through coolings and warmings many times in its history and they are perfectly natural.

I agree that this is total propaganda. It is obvious to see this when you have extreme environmentalists saying that Bush caused Katrina to happen because he didn’t sign the Kyoto treaty.

It becomes even more apparent how false this is when they start blaming everything on global warming. If it snows too much during the winter, it’s global warming. If it snows too little and the winter is mild, it’s global warming. If there are many hurricanes, it’s global warming. If there are very little hurricanes, it’s global warming. If there is more rainfall than usual, it’s global warming. If there is less rainfall than usual, well, you get the picture. Every natural disaster is blamed on global warming.
I agree, it’s natural. Humans cannot effect the climate. Nothing we can do can cause the climate to raise. Human cannot any never will be able to trump Mother Nature. When a volcano erupts it puts out more green house gasses than humans have created in the history of the Earth. The Earth has been warming and cooling in cycles since the last ice age, there is nothing we can do to slow it or speed it up. It’s nature. Take a look at what’s happening on Mars right now…global warming. How many SUV’s are on Mars??? The climate on Earth(and Mars) has to do with one thing, the sun. The sun has cycles, we are on a hot cycle right now. Only 17 or so % of scientists believe in what Al Gore preaches, yet that minority gets all the headlines and tries to get everyone to believe it as true, typical media in America, the same media that blasts the Catholic Chuch every chance it gets.
 
Movies are basically an appeal to the emotions. There is no time or opportunity to carefully consider the “logical arguments” being presented.

This is not appropriate for science. It may be incomplete. It cannot be analyzed from different directions.

The viewer is “assaulted” by a barrage of visual and auditory stimuli.

For fun, try watching a movie at home on TV with the sound turned off. Mute the sound. You can EASILY see all the edit and splice marks. Sometimes you can even easily spot bloopers.

In any event, the arguments cannot be examined.

The Al Gore movie is an appeal to the emotions … in this case, negative emotions … FEAR.
 
Quoting directly from a post I made in May:

'I am convinced, as I said on a similar thread 3-4 months ago, with very similar arguments being put forward, that global warming is happening. And that we have a moral imperative to change our lifestyles accordingly.

I am also convinced that many people here do not believe that, and so I’m not trying to start that argument.

HOWEVER

There do seem to be plenty of good reasons to adopt a more environmentally responsible lifestyle, even if you are not convinced by global warming:
  1. The world’s resources are limited. We are consuming them at a faster rate. The waste that we produce is filling more and more landfills. We save green land from becoming landfill if we reduce the waste we produce. We also make ourselves less dependent on limited resources when we use those resources wisely.
  2. The increased dependency on cars creates many problems. While not knocking SUV for rural dwellers (my uncle, a farmer, has one, with barbed wire and bailing twine in the back!) far too many urban and suburban dwellers drive them, and far too many urban and suburban dwellers are dependent on cars in the first place:
  • increased pedestrians and public transport use makes city streets safer - the best way to beat urban crime is to get people using urban space.
  • there has been a marked increase in asthma, particularly among children, directly linked to car fumes in urban areas (and other pollutants).
  • fewer people walking and cycling has had an impact on our waistlines and our health - less car use and more walking would improve our health.
  • the lack of good public transport impacts most on the most vulnerable, and those who cannot afford a car. Declining public transport increases the gap between the haves and the have nots. If more people used it, it would become more financially viable, and therefore better. Public transport can also be a real community builder and reduce social isolation, particularly for older people.
  • a child hit by a SUV in a traffic accident has a much higher chance of fatality/serious injury than a child hit by a smaller car. Also, a particular problem of ‘school run’ SUVs is that it is more difficult for the driver to see smaller children. They’re safer for the kids inside the car, but much more dangerous for the kids outside the car.
  1. I wonder about what an increasingly ‘throw away society’ says to our children? The idea of using something until it’s done, of making most use of our resources, of not having a new everything, does not help them value other parts of life. Fixing a fridge/television/jumper rather than buying a new one helps the environment AND helps us live lives of Christian simplicity.
Now, surely if we take all that (and there are other arguments - loss of biodiversity for example), and then (again, for the sake of argument) concede there’s a 30/40% that global warming is happening too, surely there is less to be lost, and a great deal to be gained by becoming more eco-friendly? And surely, given the odds, we should at least be trying to change our lifestyles, rather than running the risk of being accused in years to come of fiddling while Rome burns? And surely, even above all that, we have this beautiful, magnificent, breathtaking creation that God has gifted us, and shouldn’t we be looking after it, rather than simply using it up as a commodity?

Can anyone honestly say that, even if global warming is propaganda, decreasing our dependency on cars and fossil fuels isn’t at least a good aspiration?
 
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