GLORIA: American Catholic Bishops Deal Leftism A Holy Smackdown

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Vonsalza said:
Historically, you can blame the Jghsdlkjghsfghlflgh Party
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Here we go again 🙂 The issue is not what political party started it. The issue is that individual Catholics in America insist in mixing politics and religion.

Political issues should be discussed on one side, and relligious issues on another side.

Take abortion as a hot-button example.

Politically, one party (supposedly) supports its abolition, another vehemently opposes it (with some fringes that go the other way).

Religiously, a political or legal maneuver to abolish abortion is not the point. The point is the proclamation of the sanctity of human life. Making abortions illegal will not change hearts and it will not stop confused and wounded people from seeking abortion or providing abortion. Proclaiming the Gospel of life could.

That is why I find it infuriating when I go pray for the conversion of souls in front of an abortion mill, or to hand out anti-abortion literature or referrals to Catholic pregnancy centers, and I see people holding political signs (ex. “defund Fgfgj Dgkgjhood” or “Vote Yes on Amendment 358998579”) and praying the Rosary as if they were shouting slogans at a rally (hint: Our Lady can hear us even if we whisper, and prayers are only efficacious if our intentions are aligned with God’s will).

Also the Church’s Social Doctrine is neither Capitalist nor Communist nor Anarchist nor Gojgkghkjist, nor is it Conservative, Liberal, Progressive, Reactionary, Revolutionary, Fuighriughrary, etc. There is no human system that nails down the perfect way of life of the City of God. Some argue Democracy is as close as we can get. Others ague Capitalism is as close as we can get. Others argue a mixture of things. Some argue very strange things about a Catholic monarch to come or some similar absurdity.

The point is that if every time a bishop brings forth a piece of the Social Doctrine of the Church we politicize it and label it, we will never be able to support the Church, because when we politicize issues, some appear liberal, some appear conservative, and so on and so forth.

For example, take immigration. The Church’s stance, many say, is liberal. Now take abortion. The Church’s stance, many say, is conservative. Wrong! The Church’s stance is Catholic. Kudos to anyone else who gets a piece of the puzzle right.
 
because the “left” in “america” has gotten themselves so mixed-upped in the culture of death that they can’t see the forest for the trees

the american catholic leftists would’ve GLADLY supported a third term for obama or a first tern for hill-witch

because the false issues of social justice that the american left wing support far supercede pro-life
 
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the_coppersmith said:
Here we go again 🙂 The issue is not what political party started it. The issue is that individual Catholics in America insist in mixing politics and religion.

Political issues should be discussed on one side, and relligious issues on another side.
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Well, I have another thread going discussing how a beatified Pope and another one that seems to me quite holy both wrote that you can’t separate the church from the state or the state from the church, so I think we may be stuck with the meshing of religion and politics in an unholy union.
 
Vonsalza said:
Historically, you can blame the Republican party.

Prior to Roe v. Wade, neither party platform hardly ever mentioned God or faith. Politics was broadly considered a “worldly” affair by many protestant households.

The reps needed to hunt for another base. They found it with evangelicals starting in the 70s.
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I had a super-liberal fairly well-known professor who pointed out that Roe v Wade basically gave birth to the religious right as a political movement (and questioned the decision’s overall value on that ground) so I think we can blame the Supreme Court at that time, not the Republicans.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
Well, I have another thread going discussing how a beatified Pope and another one wrote that you can’t separate the church from the state or the state from the church
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Yes, that is true. But Catholics should be careful when taking a political stance, as the Church (as you should know if you properly read those Popes’ writings) is neutral when it comes to politics. She guides, she does not take sides.

Otherwise, if the Church is Rejjoijiogjcan, then the Demogrhucrats will feel rejected by the Church, and vice versa. But the Church is open to all, and is for all - it is the universal sacrament of salvation. Hence, politicizing religious issues and religious figures does harm to the proclamation of the Gospel and the growth of the City of God.
 
josh987654321 said:
Call it what you want. I am no fool.
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Obviously not, O Wise One. Your wisdom transpires from the quality of your uncalled-for insinuations against a holy man like Cardinal Cupich because he said a few things you don’t like.

In any case, we are accountable for our words. Slandering a Cardinal is no small matter, Mr. josh987654321.
 
the_coppersmith said:
the Church (as you should know if you properly read those Popes’ writings) is neutral when it comes to politics.
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Of course they are “neutral” officially for tax purposes and because at least in the US, both the clergy and laity contain many members/ supporters of each major party.

At the same time, we have had letters from the Bishop read from the pulpit urging us to contact our elected representative about this issue or that, been more or less told the Vatican and bishops’ positions on every social issue from gun control to death penalty to global warming, and where there is some non-partisan vote on an issue like the Australian gay marriage poll, Church officials did not seem to be shy in speaking out about that issue either.

The Church is hardly non-political. What the Church strives to be is more properly called non-partisan, unless one party has an agenda item of destroying the Church (e.g. Modern communism) in which case the Church necessarily must oppose that party.
 
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So one in five Democrats are pro-life.

Which means by extension that four in five Democrats are pro-abortion. In English, that’s 80%.
 
the_coppersmith said:
Why do Americans mix politics and religion so much,
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Because when you separate the two you deny the Social Reign of Christ the King. No prayers allowed in public schools, perverse “marriages”, legalized abortion, no-fault divorce. All power comes from God, even the powers of government.

 
upant said:
What the “Seamless Garment” theological position did was put abortion on the same pedestal as other causes like welfare, race relations, social justice, and pacificism.
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No, no, no, no, no. A garment and a pedestal are a mixed metaphor. You cannot transfer one from the other and have any coherence or logic. The Catholic Church does not say they are the same in gravity. They are part of the same theology.
 
pnewton said:
No, no, no, no, no. A garment and a pedestal are a mixed metaphor. You cannot transfer one from the other and have any coherence or logic. The Catholic Church does not say they are the same in gravity. They are part of the same theology.
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you are not transferring you are eliminating.
many on this forum have eliminated the pedestals of sin and made them all equal. it is easier to make the church in your likeness this way.
the_coppersmith said:
Yes, that is true. But Catholics should be careful when taking a political stance, as the Church (as you should know if you properly read those Popes’ writings) is neutral when it comes to politics. She guides, she does not take sides.
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you misspelled should be neutral. the church isn’t neutral
Debbie_Kono said:
No prayers allowed in public schools, perverse “marriages”, legalized abortion, no-fault divorce.
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they have issues with priorities and the seamless garment was their justification.
 
Good…
Now if only the Church leadership would make the host of other pro-life issues equally important…such as health care, immigration, poverty. Capital punishment…not holding right wing politicians accountable for their voting records on these issues makes the Church leadership themselves looking like cafeteria Catholics…the Holly Father has spoken on these, but from the Faithful to the bishops, the only sound heard is crickets.
 
Right. no Catholic should have a problem with the metaphor of the seamless garment. I’m sure both Archbishop Naumann and Cardinal Cupich believe the Church’s doctrine on willful murder and, say, her doctrine on the right to migrate are part of a seamless, coherent, corpus. I’m guessing the Archbishop was elected to this particular post because he assigns a more appropriate level of gravity to the former.
 
I donate to a small charity established in my home diocese to provide housing for homeless, pregnant women so they have a place to live and have their babies. I presume it also helps them find a place to live after the baby is born and doesn’t just boot them out on the sidewalk.
Never knitted a prayer shawl or collected old baby clothes in my life.

Edited to add, it’s called “Maggie’s Place” and has facilities in a number of states, if anyone else wants to check it out on the web. I’m not sure if we’re allowed to post links to charity sites on here but it’s fairly easy to google it up.
 
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the_coppersmith said:
Here we go again 🙂 The issue is not what political party started it.
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Respectfully, your exact question was, “Why do Americans mix politics and religion so much, and are so quick to label their fellow Catholics and even their leaders in the order of bishops with political labels (liberal, conservative, progressive) and make insinuations about them or spread rumors and gossip about them?”

This compound question asked about the behavior of Americans and then followed up with asking why they like to label church leadership.

The reply detailing the Republican targeting of Evangelicals post-Roe is the answer to your question. Prior to that, neither party routinely invoked “God” or “faith” in their plank. That’s just the raw, historical fact. 😐

Now, Roe certainly wasn’t the only reason this happened. It’s just a good date marker.
Political issues should be discussed on one side, and relligious issues on another side.
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Despite best efforts, there are many that cannot separate the two. Many folks have tremendous difficulty distinguishing between “marriage” for governmental purposes and “marriage” for religious purposes. They want both to mean the same thing - connecting politics with religion.
 
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