Go to Hell - Stay there forever

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NoelFitz

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I have a problem with God’s mercy and love, and it is hell.

I cannot see how a good God would create a being who will suffer for all eternity, especially if that person had a morally good life, except for one unforgiven mortal sin.

Recent popes try to minimise hell, from JP II, Ben XVI and Francis, also many theologians reject the traditional views of hell. As a Catholic I can only go as far as Hans Urs von Balthasar.

Related problems are God’s poor track record, angels fell away, humanity rejected God (Adam) and his own people disowned him. At present there is a huge exodus from the Church in developed countries.

Why did God create humans and the universe, as nothing adds to his love or happiness?

My only answer is that God’s ways are not our ways, and we cannot understand why God does what he does.

Especially during this Lent I am trying to break away from my negative thoughts, reading the Psalms, the Popes, (currently Misericordia et Misera) and Newman ( (using at present ‘A Newman Prayer Book’).

I thought it would be appropriate to bring all my concerns together, but the key problem is ‘why do people go to hell?’.

I would very much welcome suggestions for me to break out of my negative views.

^^^ ^^^ ^^^

Have mercy on me, God, in accord with your merciful love; in your abundant compassion blot out my transgressions. Thoroughly wash away my guilt; and from my sin cleanse me. For I know my transgressions; my sin is always before me. (NABRE, Ps 51:3-5)

Indeed, goodness and mercy will pursue me all the days of my life; I will dwell in the house of the Lord for endless days (NABRE, Ps 23:6)
 
NoelFitz said:
I cannot see how a good God would create a being who will suffer for all eternity
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It wasn’t God’s idea to make us suffer for all eternity. In committing mortal sin, we destroy our relationship with God. God doesn’t destroy it, WE destroy it. We choose to separate ourselves from God, and so we suffer.
especially if that person had a morally good life, except for one unforgiven mortal sin.
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A person with a “morally good life” is not going to be having “one unforgiven mortal sin”.
Mortal Sin means you don’t have a “morally good life”.
Mortal sin means you destroyed your relationship with God. YOU destroyed it, God didn’t destroy it.
The fact that you didn’t take advantage of God’s forgiveness when it was offered to you just shows how far gone you are.

People on this forum seem to be obsessed with the idea that somebody is walking around being good as gold and then they somehow commit one little “mortal sin”, don’t get to confession for 3 days and die on day 2. That’s not how it works. A person walking around living this good life is not going to just go out one day and commit a “mortal sin” and then get zapped and sent to Hell. I can’t imagine anyone over the age of about 14 actually picturing this scenario to be honest.
 
I dunno, haven’t you ever seen an otherwise “normal” person act completely irrationally when goaded to the point of blinding anger? “Seeing red”?
 
Without Hell there would be no Divine Justice.
‘Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.’ - Matt 25:46
 
To the OP, I have sometimes thought of it as someone “painting themself into a corner”. If they get themself to the point where being with God for eternity would be worse than going to hell, then God lets them go to hell
 
Flopfoot said:
I dunno, haven’t you ever seen an otherwise “normal” person act completely irrationally when goaded to the point of blinding anger? “Seeing red”?
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If a person is acting under extreme emotional duress, is that willfully committing a “mortal sin”? Your free will is rather affected when something makes you suddenly blindingly angry and irrational. Even the human-made legal system recognizes that.
 
We don’t decide what a morally good life is. Our judgment is completely unreliable.

People obey laws and behave likeably and lawfully for a million different selfish and self-serving reasons.

One unforgiven mortal sin is overabundantly enough to severe a relationship. Pretend you’re married. Your husband/wife walks through the door with a romantic interest wrapped around them. They smile at you as though they are doing nothing wrong. Then they walk upstairs and have sex in your bed. Later that same exact night, they walk downstairs with a completely straight face and start asking you to do various favors for them. If you say no, they shout at you. If you yes, they take what you give them and then walk off and start doing whatever they want to do. You are heartbroken. You want to scream and cry. You confront them about it and they accuse you of barging into their business and of you being the bad person. They continue to demand all of the benefits of being married to you while habitually coming home with other people.

This example does not sufficiently portray the level of injustice that Christ put up with on Earth and continues to experience to the present day.

God does everything within his power to prevent a person from destroying themselves spiritually, but he forfeits his omnipotence when he creates a rational soul. This is a profound mystery.
 
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What I understand of Mortal sin, there are prerequisites. Blinding anger may not automatically put you in a position of Mortal sin.
 
To God be the Glory for anything decent that comes out of my keypad on here. I’m a mess today and can barely put two words together for various reasons, so credit the Holy Spirit, who just uses me to type.
 
I am sorry but I completely disagree with you there, take myself for instance I have frequently committed mortal sins, I have gone to Confession to seek forgiveness and to be fair I would love it if I was told by God that my time was up and would not have to live in this world of sin anymore. People reject God but I don’t think they do so with the intention to reject him forever, that is the difference between my view and yours. God does not override free will but he can ensure that someone sees the light as in the case of St Paul and his conversion on the road to Damascus.
 
So are you saying I am damned because I was fantasising about having sex with someone’s wife after going to confession(which I did actually do by the way)? I regret doing something like that but it is frankly a reality that some people can live good lives and commit mortal sins occasionally, not everyone finds it easy to avoid sin.
 
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your problem is not with God’s mercy and love; it is with God’s justice.

We choose hell; God does not “send” us there; we choose to go there.
 
You do not disagree with me, you disagree with the teachings of the Church. Bold below added, from the Catechism:

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a12.htm#1035

[1036] The affirmations of Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Church on the subject of hell are a call to the responsibility incumbent upon man to make use of his freedom in view of his eternal destiny. They are at the same time an urgent call to conversion: "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few."618

Since we know neither the day nor the hour, we should follow the advice of the Lord and watch constantly so that, when the single course of our earthly life is completed, we may merit to enter with him into the marriage feast and be numbered among the blessed, and not, like the wicked and slothful servants, be ordered to depart into the eternal fire, into the outer darkness where "men will weep and gnash their teeth."619

[1037] God predestines no one to go to hell; for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want “any to perish, but all to come to repentance”:621

Father, accept this offering
from your whole family.
Grant us your peace in this life,
save us from final damnation,
and count us among those you have chosen.622
 
Hell is destined to person that WANT to offend God HEAVILY with an action they know is VERY BAD, and that DON’T WANT to apologize, so are almost proud of their sin, and don’t want to ACCEPT God’s mercy and love.
God can ALWAYS forgive us, even if we have committed a mortal sin. We just have to recognize it, apologize very sincerely and promit to try not to sin anymore. He can heal us.
Anything else. Don’t worry.
 
oliver109 said:
So are you saying I am damned because I was fantasising about having sex with someone’s wife after going to confession(which I did actually do by the way)? I regret doing something like that but it is frankly a reality that some people can live good lives and commit mortal sins occasionally, not everyone finds it easy to avoid sin.
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I can’t judge whether your personal, individual sins are mortal or not. Please speak to a priest about them.

Additionally, given that you have posted a great deal about your confession, your sins, etc in a short span of time, I’m wondering if you might possibly suffer from scruples. This is an objective discussion about sin on this thread; it is not really a place for everybody to start posting personal sins and saying “so will I go to Hell for this or that?” Again, please talk to a priest about your personal circumstance.
 
Yeah I’m not sure fantasising counts as grave matter but I’ll check the catechism
 
I was just trying to be against this view that is very prevalent among Catholics that those who have lived good sin free lives will never commit a sin on the day they die because they were simply good people, nothing can be guaranteed and some are gooder than others for very diverse reasons. I was told once by a priest in Confession that I was the only parishioner who found it so hard to avoid a certain sin and that other people he saw in Confession would not keep coming back as frequently as I did with the same sin.
 
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