Go to Hell - Stay there forever

Status
Not open for further replies.
No one is saying that Catholics who have lived good lives “will never commit a sin on the day they die”. You are taking the thread discussion in a very black-and-white way.

The question is not whether people sin. They sin all the time. The question is rather whether someone leading a basically good life would all of a sudden decide to commit a sin so severe as to sever his relationship with God on the spot, and then if he died immediately thereafter, reject God’s offer of mercy and indeed reject God.

When you die, God judges you based on your whole life, not on what you did in the last 24 hours, the last week, the last year, etc. Somebody who willfully commits a truly mortal sin has likely been drifting away from God for a good long time before they actually commit the truly mortal sin. It is not some momentary “gotcha” occurrence.
 
What is this severe sin you are talking about? it could just be a man fantasizing about having sex with a women who is wearing a short skirt next to him on a bus, it could be a priest who has been exemplary but does something very inappropriate to a young woman. Our life really boils down to what happens on the day we die, may that day be a good one.
 
Not really, I was saying that a lot of otherwise good people can see themselves committing mortal sin and seeing themselves enter Hell, maybe it is rare but it is undoubtedly real.
 
We all - including great saints - have the capacity to commit serious sins.

We do all our praying, Mass going, confession attending, receiving of the Eucharist etc to strengthen our relationship with God and in so doing reduce the chance of us committing a serious sin, or if we somehow did slip and do something bad, we would repent of it immediately, beg God’s forgiveness and be open to his mercy.

It’s like saying we all have the capacity to go on a murder spree. I believe we all do. But those of us who spend all day engaging in good moral pursuits and working on forgiveness and not feeling anger and not hanging around violent people, etc. are far less likely to just all of a sudden go out and commit murder one day, and if they did so it would more likely be due to some kind of mental imbalance, not to a willful desire to kill.
 
I would say your murder analogy is a bad one simply because it is those sins of the mind that are harder to control than those of the body, to go out and kill someone requires action but thinking about murdering someone is much easier and many more would be guilty of that. That said God has designed us to find committing murder abhorrent so few do it. Some people find it easier to avoid violent thoughts than others, I hope I overcome them myself.
 
Then let’s not use murder, but adultery.

There is nothing that guarantee that after almost 30 years of marriage that I will not commit adultery tomorrow. On the other hand, it is highly unlikely that I will commit adultery tomorrow because I do not flirt with other men, go out to singles bars or frequent dating sites online. I have not done the thousand little things that lead up to adultery.

Was I always this way? Nope. When I was younger I was very flirtatious. I thought that the rules did not apply to me and I could have emotional relationships with other men and it would not lead to anything. I committed venial flirtations and relished them.

Since then, I have matured, I have grown in wisdom and in grace. I also love my husband so much more than I did 30 years ago, or 3 years, or 3 days ago. Every day I grow a little bit. I am not the same woman I was, sometimes I barely recognize her!

So, the likelyhood of my tossing all of it to the wind tomorrow, while not zero, is pretty low.

Same thing goes for someone who has lived a life that is growing in Grace, people who are avoiding venial sins, going to Confession, doing good works, they are every day less likely to just go commit a mortal sin. Virtue does take root and suddenly you look back and barely recognize the person you were spiritually 30 years ago, or 3 weeks ago, or 3 days ago.
 
Yes this is true generally but should they do the unthinkable why cant they be forgiven and bounce back again?
 
NoelFitz said:
Why did God create humans and the universe, as nothing adds to his love or happiness?
Click to expand...
So that we could have a share in His eternal life and happiness.
NoelFitz said:
As a Catholic I can only go as far as Hans Urs von Balthasar.
Click to expand...
There is evil, horror, and hate in this world; what makes you think that evil, horror and hate does not exist in the spiritual world?
NoelFitz said:
I cannot see how a good God would create a being who will suffer for all eternity, especially if that person had a morally good life, except for one unforgiven mortal sin.
Click to expand...
The cosmos is made up of systems governed by laws. Even we are made up of systems; Skeletal System, Nervous System, Muscular System, Cardiovascular, Reproductive, Digestive, etc. All of these systems are governed by the laws of health. A little poison can ruin and destroy the entire system. Likewise the economy of the soul exists within a spiritual system governed by spiritual laws, known as the Ten Commandments. our Life of Grace is the life of the soul. We break those laws, we can kill the life of grace within us.

On earth we live in time where we can choose between good and evil; we can repent and amend our ways. Once we die and our soul separates from our body we enter the spiritual eternal realm where we cannot change our state. Either we have the life of grace in us in union with God, or we are forever separated from God, the result of our own deliberate actions while on earth.

Jesus Christ sacrificed himself and died a horrible death so that we could be saved. Salvation was not cheap, it cost Our Lord His life and blood. life is not a game, we don’t play with fire, we don’t drink poison, we avoid things that harm us. Likew]wise for the soul. The body is temporal. Where the soul is eternal.

The fallen angels were created good and they demonized themselves when they rebelled against God. Likewise, man is called to be sanctified, but he is free to demonize himself by rebelling and rejecting God.
 
You say that the soul that dies cannot repent anymore, why limit God? say you have a normal soul who lives a life where he does good but also sins sometimes, he dies suddenly after sinning, would God not ensure that he gives the sinner a chance to make a confession to him before he separates the soul from his body? Some may say that I am taking Gods mercy for granted by saying this but I do believe that Gods mercy should never be despaired about.
 
Quite right but to us he would appear to be dead, his body could be a pile of ashes as we see it.
 
oliver109 said:
Quite right but to us he would appear to be dead, his body could be a pile of ashes as we see it.
Click to expand...
Who cares what we think? That has no bearing on what happens to a soul after death. One can repent before death, but not after it.
 
I have the hope that God shows more mercy than we can imagine when we die, few people in my view are so set in sin that they would reject God if he was to speak to them at the moment of death. That idea helps me relax as I fear dying before going to confession after committing a sin but if we are able to make our confession to God in such an event then I can relax more.
 
oliver109 said:
few people in my view are so set in sin that they would reject God if he was to speak to them at the moment of death.
Click to expand...
The Pharisees saw Him face to face, and heard and even saw His miracles and wisdom, and screamed for Him to be crucified. It is entirely possible. It’s good to trust in God and His mercy, and we should, but sadly, there are some truly corrupted people in this world who would rather burn than serve.

And again, mortal sins are what send people to Hell, not venial sins.
 
Last edited:
Some of them may have seen the error of their ways later on and remember I did say that there are a few people who are really set in sin, I believe that most of us are trying our best to avoid mortal sin but will sometimes fall.
 
oliver109 said:
I was just trying to be against this view that is very prevalent among Catholics that those who have lived good sin free lives will never commit a sin on the day they die because they were simply good people,
Click to expand...
This is not the view being presented. The point is not that good people will not fall and commit mortal sin, but that God, in his infinite mercy will always give a person the chance to repent. Now, that doesn’t mean it is safe to be presumptuous, that in and of itself is a sin. But as Bishop Sheen (I think it was he) once said, we can hope that between the time the trigger is pulled and the bullet enters his head, God will give the person committing suicide the chance to repent.
 
Fauken said:
Who cares what we think? That has no bearing on what happens to a soul after death. One can repent before death, but not after it.
Click to expand...
There is a school of thought that upon death, whether you want to define it as just before you actually die or just after you actually die (really doesn’t matter to me), God gives the soul one last chance to choose Him and mercy. If the soul rejects God at that point then they go to Hell.
tafan2 said:
The point is not that good people will not fall and commit mortal sin, but that God, in his infinite mercy will always give a person the chance to repent.
Click to expand...
Right, and a person who is good at heart will repent and choose God in that last chance. But we should not rely just on the last chance, we should be striving to live a good life right along so we will be more certain to choose God.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top